I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

If you dry outwood, then it sucks up anything around back into the bare
grain.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message
...
I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint that
lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I find
always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking a
bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a known
phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to the
point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive way to
neutralise it?

I forgot to mention that the stains are jet black, and the 'image' is
very sharp. Like someone drew a line with a ruler and a black felt-tip
pen. It doesn't have the look of something that would come from within
the wood itself.


Brian Gaff wrote:
If you dry outwood, then it sucks up anything around back into the bare
grain.
Brian

On 12/06/2016 12:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC

Yup, I would agree - it sounds like a classic case of iron staining...

moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!

Furniture restorers will usually use oxalic acid (aka wood bleach)
crystals dissolved in water. You apply with a sponge and using a stiff
brush scrub into the grain a bit, then leave to dry. You may need a few
applications. Wash down with clean water once done.

One of many examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scTEH8f7nJ8

(very good channel for anyone doing work on real furniture)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/06/16 12:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I forgot to mention that the stains are jet black, and the 'image' is
very sharp. Like someone drew a line with a ruler and a black felt-tip
pen. It doesn't have the look of something that would come from within
the wood itself.


bleach works - or caustic soda.


Brian Gaff wrote:
If you dry outwood, then it sucks up anything around back into the bare
grain.
Brian




--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 12/06/2016 12:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/06/2016 12:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC

Yup, I would agree - it sounds like a classic case of iron staining...

moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!

Furniture restorers will usually use oxalic acid (aka wood bleach)
crystals dissolved in water. You apply with a sponge and using a stiff
brush scrub into the grain a bit, then leave to dry. You may need a few
applications. Wash down with clean water once done.

One of many examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scTEH8f7nJ8

(very good channel for anyone doing work on real furniture)

Please take care if using it. It is classified as a poison althousg in
relatively high doses (Wikipedia suggests around 30g (1oz) for an adult.

Malcolm

On 6/12/2016 12:07 PM, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC
moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!


Beat me to it. And John has already posted the fix!

On 6/12/2016 1:12 PM, Malcolm Race wrote:
On 12/06/2016 12:34, John Rumm wrote:
On 12/06/2016 12:07, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I
left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC

Yup, I would agree - it sounds like a classic case of iron staining...

moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!

Furniture restorers will usually use oxalic acid (aka wood bleach)
crystals dissolved in water. You apply with a sponge and using a stiff
brush scrub into the grain a bit, then leave to dry. You may need a few
applications. Wash down with clean water once done.

One of many examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scTEH8f7nJ8

(very good channel for anyone doing work on real furniture)

Please take care if using it. It is classified as a poison althousg in
relatively high doses (Wikipedia suggests around 30g (1oz) for an adult.

Malcolm

Also present in raw rhubarb. Not sure how much you would need to prepare
a suitable bleach though.

The stain probably won't be very deep, so sanding could be another option.

On 12/06/2016 12:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I forgot to mention that the stains are jet black, and the 'image' is
very sharp. Like someone drew a line with a ruler and a black felt-tip
pen. It doesn't have the look of something that would come from within
the wood itself.

Yup, classic iron and tannin.

(bit like the inky black staining sludge you get out of central heating
systems)

You can even use it deliberately as a way of staining and darkening
wood. Wire wool and vinegar is one popular technique:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Stee...onizingWeathe/




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC
moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!


Okay, that seems like the answer. It /is/ indoors, but maybe the
acetone had some water in it (it is described as 98%). The marks are
left by the edge of one of those triangular paint-stripping things, and
the bottom of a nitromors can, so there is going to be some iron in
there. I'll probably just sand it out - it will add to the distressed
look that the missus currently likes.

On 13/06/16 11:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC
moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!


Okay, that seems like the answer. It /is/ indoors, but maybe the
acetone had some water in it (it is described as 98%). The marks are
left by the edge of one of those triangular paint-stripping things, and
the bottom of a nitromors can, so there is going to be some iron in
there. I'll probably just sand it out - it will add to the distressed
look that the missus currently likes.

Bleach or oxalic first, then sand



--
How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.

Adolf Hitler

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/06/16 11:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping, which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I
left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark (looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And (more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC
moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!


Okay, that seems like the answer. It /is/ indoors, but maybe the
acetone had some water in it (it is described as 98%). The marks are
left by the edge of one of those triangular paint-stripping things, and
the bottom of a nitromors can, so there is going to be some iron in
there. I'll probably just sand it out - it will add to the distressed
look that the missus currently likes.

Bleach or oxalic first, then sand


Okay, thanks. I'll try the bleach tonight; then, if necessary, get the
smallest amount I can find on ebay. Apparently bee-keepers use it for
something.

On 13/06/16 12:42, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/06/16 11:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping,
which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I
left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark
(looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is
this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And
(more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC
moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!


Okay, that seems like the answer. It /is/ indoors, but maybe the
acetone had some water in it (it is described as 98%). The marks are
left by the edge of one of those triangular paint-stripping things, and
the bottom of a nitromors can, so there is going to be some iron in
there. I'll probably just sand it out - it will add to the distressed
look that the missus currently likes.

Bleach or oxalic first, then sand


Okay, thanks. I'll try the bleach tonight; then, if necessary, get the
smallest amount I can find on ebay. Apparently bee-keepers use it for
something.

Yep. It kills varroa mites slightly faster than it kills bees.


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

On 13/06/2016 12:42, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 13/06/16 11:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:28:51 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"
wrote:

I discovered that acetone is rather good at getting rid of the paint
that lingers in wood grain after the more heavy-duty stripping,
which I
find always leaves a bit behind. So I now have nice (if slightly
distressed-looking) bare wood window sills again. Unfortunately, I
left
some tools on there overnight, and they have left a black mark
(looking
a bit like exposed photographic paper) where they contacted. Is
this a
known phenomenon? It would seem to be a good wood stain. And
(more to
the point), before I get the sandpaper out, is there a non-destructive
way to neutralise it?

Not sure it's got anything directly to do with the acetone, but iron
(e.g. nails, or in your case, tools) is notorious for staining wood,
especially oak. It's the tannin in the wood that reacts with the iron
to give a black stain, presumably some sort of iron tannate. IIRC
moisture is involved somewhere; did it rain, or was there a heavy dew
overnight? I expect you'll tell me they were indoors! Don't know a
solution. Perhaps spread some iron filings over the rest of the cill,
and at least get it all a uniform colour!


Okay, that seems like the answer. It /is/ indoors, but maybe the
acetone had some water in it (it is described as 98%). The marks are
left by the edge of one of those triangular paint-stripping things, and
the bottom of a nitromors can, so there is going to be some iron in
there. I'll probably just sand it out - it will add to the distressed
look that the missus currently likes.

Bleach or oxalic first, then sand


Okay, thanks. I'll try the bleach tonight; then, if necessary, get the
smallest amount I can find on ebay. Apparently bee-keepers use it for
something.

They use a very dilute version - not the almost pure version used for
bleaching IIUC.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/06/2016 12:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/06/16 12:07, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I forgot to mention that the stains are jet black, and the 'image' is
very sharp. Like someone drew a line with a ruler and a black felt-tip
pen. It doesn't have the look of something that would come from within
the wood itself.


bleach works - or caustic soda.


Brian Gaff wrote:
If you dry outwood, then it sucks up anything around back into the bare
grain.
Brian




Hydrogen Peroxide, part of 2-part wood bleach would do it.
Goes well with Acetone, by all accounts :-).

On 12/06/2016 13:42, newshound wrote:

Please take care if using it. It is classified as a poison althousg in
relatively high doses (Wikipedia suggests around 30g (1oz) for an adult.

Malcolm

Also present in raw rhubarb. Not sure how much you would need to prepare
a suitable bleach though.

The stain probably won't be very deep, so sanding could be another option.

Only rhubarb leaves contain oxalic acid.