I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about 50cm above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the shed, which was part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the photo makes it clear what's what: https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank at the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing retaining wall at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the level and I don't want to have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need to watch out for when I'm digging away?

Thanks

On Tue, 31 May 2016 08:00:50 -0700, matthelliwell wrote:

I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about
50cm above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the shed,
which was part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the photo makes
it clear what's what: https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the
shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a
bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank
at the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing
retaining wall at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the level
and I don't want to have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need
to watch out for when I'm digging away?

Thanks

Looking at that pic, if it's really just the lowest tier that you're
digging away, I don't think it's going to be too big a problem, so long
as you're happy to keep a shortish step. If you want to go all the way
back to that existing wall, and just extend the bottom of it, then you
may well have to rebuild that whole wall, though.

On 31/05/2016 16:00, matthelliwell wrote:
I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about 50cm above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the shed, which was part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the photo makes it clear what's what: https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank at the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing retaining wall at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the level and I don't want to have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need to watch out for when I'm digging away?

Thanks

Are you sure that there *is* a retaining wall at the back of the shed?
Or is the patio simply at the level of the sloping surface at that point?

If you drop the level at the back of the shed to that of the garden in
front of the patio, you'll almost certainly need to build a retaining
wall there.

If I'm wrong, and there *is* one already, everything will depend on the
depth of its foundations. If they go below the required new level,
they'll be ok. If they don't, digging will undermine them, and the wall
will probably collapse - so you'll have to take it down and build a new one.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Yes, there's definitely a retaining wall at the back. Its about a metre high and block work (or the top part I can see if anyway). So it probably looks like I'll have to plan to rebuild it :-(

I could really do with going all the way back to maximise the space as the garden isn't that large so it looks like a rebuilding job if I go down this route.

matthelliwell wrote:
I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area.
about 50cm above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the
shed, which was part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the
photo makes it clear what's what:
https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where
the shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the
garden a bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the
bank at the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing
retaining wall at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the
level and I don't want to have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I
need to watch out for when I'm digging away?

Instead of lowering the patio that the shed is going on, why not leave it in
place and also the retaining wall, and extend it over the garden where that
yellow tarpaulin is?
You can build a few pillars with concrete blocks laid flat and then you can
store stuff underneath or just block the space off with trellis or some
other kind of camouflage.

On 31/05/2016 16:00, matthelliwell wrote:
I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about 50cm above the garde

n. The garden rises up at the back of the shed, which was part of an old
railway embankment.

Hopefully the photo makes it clear what's what:
https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the shed currently sit

s so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank at the back of the

shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing retaining wall at the back
of the shed to coll

apse as I lower the level and I don't want to have to shift more earth
than necessary.


Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need to watch out for w

hen I'm digging away?

Thanks

Can't you put the new shed at the same level as the old one? Extend the
patio? Drainage is likely to be less of an issue.

Bill

In message , Adrian
writes
On Tue, 31 May 2016 08:00:50 -0700, matthelliwell wrote:

I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about
50cm above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the shed,
which was part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the photo makes
it clear what's what: https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the
shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a
bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank
at the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing
retaining wall at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the level
and I don't want to have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need
to watch out for when I'm digging away?

Thanks

Looking at that pic, if it's really just the lowest tier that you're
digging away, I don't think it's going to be too big a problem, so long
as you're happy to keep a shortish step. If you want to go all the way
back to that existing wall, and just extend the bottom of it, then you
may well have to rebuild that whole wall, though.

Could you *underpin* it a bit at a time? Say a 500mm wide section. Dig
out the soil to form a new foundation. Shutter the front and fill with
concrete.

--
Tim Lamb

Because the garden is quite small so it would overpower the area. Also adding another 50cm onto the height might cause problems with the max height and planning rules. Mind you I suppose I could always build a two-level shed though.

On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 16:00:53 UTC+1, matthelliwell wrote:
I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about 50cm above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the shed, which was part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the photo makes it clear what's what: https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank at the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing retaining wall at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the level and I don't want to have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need to watch out for when I'm digging away?

Thanks

You'd be digging out an essential part of its support. It might collapse, or might not but be unsafe. In short, don't.

Underpinning might or might not cut it. Don't assume.


NT

On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 19:27:55 UTC+1, wrote:
You'd be digging out an essential part of its support. It might collapse, or might not but be unsafe. In short, don't.

Underpinning might or might not cut it. Don't assume.

(I finally appeared to have worked out how to use this stupid google groups interface). Anyway, that's my conclusion too. If I go ahead I'll either sort out the retaining wall properly or build the shed on two levels. Building it on two levels might actually look better in the small garden as it'll help break up the roof line.

matthelliwell wrote:
Because the garden is quite small so it would overpower the area.
Also adding another 50cm onto the height might cause problems with
the max height and planning rules.

I'm afraid you've lost me there pal - it wouldn't be any higher than it is
now, it would be at the same level

matthelliwell wrote:
Yes, there's definitely a retaining wall at the back. Its about a
metre high and block work (or the top part I can see if anyway). So
it probably looks like I'll have to plan to rebuild it :-(

This is a hair brained idea.

Apart from rebuilding the retaining wall at the back, you'll have to build
new retaining walls running from where the slabs are leaning in the
photograph, to where the planters are near the steps to hold that raised
part up

Also, you'll need to remove the retaining wall (curved) near the lawn and
make good, and don't forget the new concrete fence panels as you'll be able
to limbo under that when the patio's dropped.

If you want to extend the shed over the curved retaining wall just do that
and prop it up from the lawn end

On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 19:35:25 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:

I'm afraid you've lost me there pal - it wouldn't be any higher than it is
now, it would be at the same level

Depends where you measure it from. It'd be the same height above sea-level but the top-of-shed to ground distance would be higher because the ground is lower.

matthelliwell wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 19:35:25 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:

I'm afraid you've lost me there pal - it wouldn't be any higher than
it is now, it would be at the same level

Depends where you measure it from. It'd be the same height above
sea-level but the top-of-shed to ground distance would be higher
because the ground is lower.

Yes that's right, it won't be any higher than it is now, the ground under
one end of the shed would be 500mm lower than at the other end, but the roof
would be the same height.

I think the £1000 you'd save by leaving the patio as it is would offset this
though.

On 31/05/2016 19:37, matthelliwell wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 19:27:55 UTC+1, wrote:
You'd be digging out an essential part of its support. It might collapse, or might not but be unsafe. In short, don't.

Underpinning might or might not cut it. Don't assume.

(I finally appeared to have worked out how to use this stupid google groups interface). Anyway, that's my conclusion too. If I go ahead I'll either sort out the retaining wall properly or build the shed on two levels. Building it on two levels might actually look better in the small garden as it'll help break up the roof line.


+1 from me for not disturbing the retaining wall. Personally, I'd extend
the patio thingy over the lawn, so there's then no arguing about the
height of the shed, and it gives you a nice firm foundation.

I find the idea of a two level shed hard to envisage.

1. can you reduce the weight by making the slope less acute?
If not I saw a wall down my road that was built like a dam, ie curved
toward the earth bank with deep posts at either end with girders inside them
to retain the pressure,so, presumably as the earth slides and pushes the
wall the wall gets its bricks pushed together pushing the end pillars out
but they are too strong to move, at least they seems to have been there a
good ten years so far.


Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"matthelliwell" wrote in message
...
I've got a mangy old shed that is sitting on a small patio area. about 50cm
above the garden. The garden rises up at the back of the shed, which was
part of an old railway embankment. Hopefully the photo makes it clear what's
what: https://goo.gl/photos/4XchoR5U1FybKZgs7

My plan is to dispose of the old shed and lower the patio area where the
shed currently sits so that my new shed can extend onto the garden a bit.

My question is, what's going to be the easiest way of retaining the bank at
the back of the shed as I dig down? I don't want the existing retaining wall
at the back of the shed to collapse as I lower the level and I don't want to
have to shift more earth than necessary.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about what I could do or what I need to
watch out for when I'm digging away?

Thanks

matthelliwell wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 19:35:25 UTC+1, Phil L wrote:


I'm afraid you've lost me there pal - it wouldn't be any higher than it is
now, it would be at the same level

Depends where you measure it from. It'd be the same height above sea-level but the top-of-shed to ground distance would be higher because the ground is lower.

Who is going to measure it?

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
1. can you reduce the weight by making the slope less acute?
If not I saw a wall down my road that was built like a dam, ie curved
toward the earth bank with deep posts at either end with girders inside them
to retain the pressure,so, presumably as the earth slides and pushes the
wall the wall gets its bricks pushed together pushing the end pillars out
but they are too strong to move, at least they seems to have been there a
good ten years so far.

Buttress construction. Clywedog dam is built like that. The valley walls
were thought insufficiently strong to hold back 200 foot of water.

--
Tim Lamb

In case anyone is interested, the conclusion is that I won't be digging anything away. Apart from rebuilding the retaining wall being a bit like hard work, I also end up undermining the fence posts so its more trouble than its worth.

The current plan is to build a large a shed as possible on the existing patio area (it can be about a foot wider and 3 feet deeper than the current shed) and put a separate narrow storage shed at the side of the garden so the new shed doesn't get full of crap.

Thanks for everyone's comments.