Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

https://github.com/graham0/ginlong-wifi

Lets say a server looked at this figure and had a rule set that said
something like...
if now 1000 turn on dishwasher
if now 1800 turn on washing machine unless dishwasher state = off then
1000
if now 2500 turn on tumble drier unless (etc etc)
if now 3500 turn on aircon/heatpump unless (etc etc)
if dishwasher + washing machine + tumble drier = on and power average
for last 3 readings 2000 then tumbled drier off...

That kind of thing?

Obviously programming isn't my forte nor is hardware integration but
looking at the overall characteristic of solar production pattern, in
the absence of an effective (longevity and cost wise) method of solar PV
energy storage, using a device that can switch on and of less critical
appliances like a tumbledrier, heat-pump/air-con etc depending on energy
production while leaving cycle-critical devices (dishwasher, washing
machine etc) to run their course seems to make sense not just from a PV
owners perspective but from a national perspective of using "smart
meters" to do the same thing in non PV residencies using feedback from
grid PV/wind production at the time. like a tiered, programmable
rule-set for critical and non-critical appliance control.

It's not something I'm going to be doing myself at least not at the
moment but currently all I see is people using "excess" electricity from
their PV arrays to heat a tank of water that can be done with gas at or
thermal PV for a fraction of the p/kWh price, the logic of reverse alchemy.

On Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:32:57 UTC+1, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

https://github.com/graham0/ginlong-wifi

Lets say a server looked at this figure and had a rule set that said
something like...
if now 1000 turn on dishwasher
if now 1800 turn on washing machine unless dishwasher state = off then
1000
if now 2500 turn on tumble drier unless (etc etc)
if now 3500 turn on aircon/heatpump unless (etc etc)
if dishwasher + washing machine + tumble drier = on and power average
for last 3 readings 2000 then tumbled drier off...

That kind of thing?

Obviously programming isn't my forte nor is hardware integration but
looking at the overall characteristic of solar production pattern, in
the absence of an effective (longevity and cost wise) method of solar PV
energy storage, using a device that can switch on and of less critical
appliances like a tumbledrier, heat-pump/air-con etc depending on energy
production while leaving cycle-critical devices (dishwasher, washing
machine etc) to run their course seems to make sense not just from a PV
owners perspective but from a national perspective of using "smart
meters" to do the same thing in non PV residencies using feedback from
grid PV/wind production at the time. like a tiered, programmable
rule-set for critical and non-critical appliance control.

It's not something I'm going to be doing myself at least not at the
moment but currently all I see is people using "excess" electricity from
their PV arrays to heat a tank of water that can be done with gas at or
thermal PV for a fraction of the p/kWh price, the logic of reverse alchemy.


1. How do your appliances respond to being turned on and off somewhat randomly?
2. No-one in their right mind that lives on solar PV has an electric clothes drier
3. Washing machines can be turned on & off semirandomly if they're electromechanically controlled and don't wait endlessly for the thermostat. Longer cycles with extra soaking improves washing, upto a point. If they're in there for 24 hours, whiffs can happen. There may also be cpu controlled machines that continue after power interruption.


NT

On 29/03/2016 18:47, wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:32:57 UTC+1, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

snip

1. How do your appliances respond to being turned on and off somewhat randomly?
2. No-one in their right mind that lives on solar PV has an electric clothes drier
3. Washing machines can be turned on & off semirandomly if they're electromechanically controlled and don't wait endlessly for the thermostat. Longer cycles with extra soaking improves washing, upto a point. If they're in there for 24 hours, whiffs can happen. There may also be cpu controlled machines that continue after power interruption.


Surely a solar-mainly system has some form of storage? I'd have thought
the OP's idea could work if the combined storage/production could be
factored in to the switching.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 08:56:04 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 29/03/2016 18:47, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:32:57 UTC+1, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

snip

1. How do your appliances respond to being turned on and off somewhat randomly?
2. No-one in their right mind that lives on solar PV has an electric clothes drier
3. Washing machines can be turned on & off semirandomly if they're electromechanically controlled and don't wait endlessly for the thermostat. Longer cycles with extra soaking improves washing, upto a point. If they're in there for 24 hours, whiffs can happen. There may also be cpu controlled machines that continue after power interruption.


Surely a solar-mainly system has some form of storage? I'd have thought
the OP's idea could work if the combined storage/production could be
factored in to the switching.

Storage costs money to buy & money to use. It's only around 75% efficient. Some appliances don't need stored power. Better to not store it then.


NT

On 30/03/2016 09:09, wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 08:56:04 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 29/03/2016 18:47, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:32:57 UTC+1, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

snip

1. How do your appliances respond to being turned on and off somewhat randomly?
2. No-one in their right mind that lives on solar PV has an electric clothes drier
3. Washing machines can be turned on & off semirandomly if they're electromechanically controlled and don't wait endlessly for the thermostat. Longer cycles with extra soaking improves washing, upto a point. If they're in there for 24 hours, whiffs can happen. There may also be cpu controlled machines that continue after power interruption.


Surely a solar-mainly system has some form of storage? I'd have thought
the OP's idea could work if the combined storage/production could be
factored in to the switching.

Storage costs money to buy & money to use. It's only around 75% efficient. Some appliances don't need stored power. Better to not store it then.


Yes, I knew it cost money and isn't completely efficient. But didn't
know solar systems are best without. And which devices don't ever need
stored power?


--
Cheers, Rob

On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 15:24:10 UTC+2, RJH wrote:
On 30/03/2016 09:09, wrote:
Some appliances don't need stored power. Better to not store it then.

Yes, I knew it cost money and isn't completely efficient. But didn't
know solar systems are best without. And which devices don't ever need
stored power?

Anything which can wait until power is available. Dishwashers and washing
machines are possible examples. Freezers to a certain extent. Domestic
hot water if the hot water storage is good enough. Central heating if
the building has a large enough thermal constant. (Those last three could
be considered a form of "stored power" depending on how you look at it.)

Of course, none of those work if there is no power for a week (well,
depending on how many clothes you have, washing machines might.)

"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 30/03/2016 09:09, wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 08:56:04 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
On 29/03/2016 18:47, tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:32:57 UTC+1, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:

Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers
of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble
PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one
of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

snip

1. How do your appliances respond to being turned on and off somewhat
randomly?
2. No-one in their right mind that lives on solar PV has an electric
clothes drier
3. Washing machines can be turned on & off semirandomly if they're
electromechanically controlled and don't wait endlessly for the
thermostat. Longer cycles with extra soaking improves washing, upto a
point. If they're in there for 24 hours, whiffs can happen. There may
also be cpu controlled machines that continue after power interruption.


Surely a solar-mainly system has some form of storage? I'd have thought
the OP's idea could work if the combined storage/production could be
factored in to the switching.

Storage costs money to buy & money to use. It's only around 75%
efficient. Some appliances don't need stored power. Better to not store
it then.


Yes, I knew it cost money and isn't completely efficient. But didn't know
solar systems are best without. And which devices don't ever need stored
power?

Those that you are free to run when the sun is shining well
like the washing machine when you have enough clothes
so you don’t ever have to wash them regardless of whether
the sun is shining or not.

I don’t actually have any PV solar myself, but do exclusively
dry the clothes on a line outside and only wash the clothes
when the weather will be fine so they will dry outside.

I have lots of clothes so it is never urgent to wash them.
Must have something like 40 T shirts I wear all the time,
summer and winter and so even if there is only good
weather every 30 days or so it all still works fine.

www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

https://github.com/graham0/ginlong-wifi

Lets say a server looked at this figure and had a rule set that said
something like...
if now 1000 turn on dishwasher
if now 1800 turn on washing machine unless dishwasher state = off then
1000
if now 2500 turn on tumble drier unless (etc etc)
if now 3500 turn on aircon/heatpump unless (etc etc)
if dishwasher + washing machine + tumble drier = on and power average
for last 3 readings 2000 then tumbled drier off...

That kind of thing?

Obviously programming isn't my forte nor is hardware integration but
looking at the overall characteristic of solar production pattern, in
the absence of an effective (longevity and cost wise) method of solar PV
energy storage, using a device that can switch on and of less critical
appliances like a tumbledrier, heat-pump/air-con etc depending on energy
production while leaving cycle-critical devices (dishwasher, washing
machine etc) to run their course seems to make sense not just from a PV
owners perspective but from a national perspective of using "smart
meters" to do the same thing in non PV residencies using feedback from
grid PV/wind production at the time. like a tiered, programmable
rule-set for critical and non-critical appliance control.

It's not something I'm going to be doing myself at least not at the
moment but currently all I see is people using "excess" electricity from
their PV arrays to heat a tank of water that can be done with gas at or
thermal PV for a fraction of the p/kWh price, the logic of reverse alchemy.



Firstly I would look at which of your appliances will actually start up
with simple the application of power from your controller.
I find water heating by a combination of ST and PV very effective
eg even now in late march we are self sufficient in DHW on most days.
Virtually nothing escapes to the grid.

On 29/03/2016 18:52, Bob Minchin wrote:

Virtually nothing escapes to the grid.

Lots gets lent to the neighbours here during the day but they give it
back at the same rate when the sun goes down.

On Tuesday, 29 March 2016 18:32:57 UTC+1, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

https://github.com/graham0/ginlong-wifi

Lets say a server looked at this figure and had a rule set that said
something like...
if now 1000 turn on dishwasher
if now 1800 turn on washing machine unless dishwasher state = off then
1000
if now 2500 turn on tumble drier unless (etc etc)
if now 3500 turn on aircon/heatpump unless (etc etc)
if dishwasher + washing machine + tumble drier = on and power average
for last 3 readings 2000 then tumbled drier off...

That kind of thing?

Obviously programming isn't my forte nor is hardware integration but
looking at the overall characteristic of solar production pattern, in
the absence of an effective (longevity and cost wise) method of solar PV
energy storage, using a device that can switch on and of less critical
appliances like a tumbledrier, heat-pump/air-con etc depending on energy
production while leaving cycle-critical devices (dishwasher, washing
machine etc) to run their course seems to make sense not just from a PV
owners perspective but from a national perspective of using "smart
meters" to do the same thing in non PV residencies using feedback from
grid PV/wind production at the time. like a tiered, programmable
rule-set for critical and non-critical appliance control.

It's not something I'm going to be doing myself at least not at the
moment but currently all I see is people using "excess" electricity from
their PV arrays to heat a tank of water that can be done with gas at or
thermal PV for a fraction of the p/kWh price, the logic of reverse alchemy.


You can buy a "solar switch" to do this.
There are two sorts, one is only suitable for heating that only outputs to the heater the same as is being generated, ie, it modulates.
Not suitable for anything with a motor in it.

The other switches on at a preset level of solar power being generated.
So Isuppose you could have it feeding a 13a socket.

The problem is,last time I looked, they were quite expensive.
I 'spect the price will come down.

My own control system is SWMBO who switches stuff on when solar power is available. The solar power being generated can be seen on the inverter which is convenient to see.




Washing machine, baking, immersion heater, undersink water heater, charge electric car.

I have time switch so that garden/pond features only run by day.

If you are fairly assiduous you can save a lot of money this way.

Fridges/freezers/TV are my main problems.

On 30/03/2016 07:41, harry wrote:

My own control system is SWMBO who switches stuff on when solar power is available.

Ah yes... I don't have one of those at home during the day.

Washing machine, baking, immersion heater, undersink water heater, charge electric car.

If the time came to attempt such a daring project I think the issue
would be with the need for an actual mechanical switch activation
(pressing the on button on the device)

but experimentation would be required to see what devices remembered
last powered state. I'm guessing most would continue from where they
left off as a precaution against power interruption mid-cycle.

I have time switch so that garden/pond features only run by day.

I don't have "features" in the pond but have 3 fairly manly pumps
running 24/7 for aeration and filtration and I've just switched on the
UV light (another 36 watts or so) which will stay on 24/7 until September.

Fridges/freezers/TV are my main problems.

Think I recall seeing one of those "living off the grid" programs where
they used a chest freezer as a fridge as it was way more efficient
because cold air didn't escape every time the door was opened.

Pump water from a well up to roof storage tank for wc flushing, gardening and other non potable applications. This does of course require a suitable tank and strong enough roof construction. Also an extreme conditions override enabling limited necessary pumping by bought in power when the sun doesn't shine to ensure toilet flushing is available when required.

On 29/03/2016 18:32, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
Putting aside the usual anti-solar, FIT thieving *******s, destroyers of
life etc etc comments, I was wondering whether a humble PC/raspberry
or whatever to activate something like the wi-fi plug(s) to turn on
domestic appliances based on the "now" energy produced.
For example my own solar inverter polls data every 6 minutes and one of
the data fields is an "energy being produced now" number.

https://github.com/graham0/ginlong-wifi

Lets say a server looked at this figure and had a rule set that said
something like...
if now 1000 turn on dishwasher
if now 1800 turn on washing machine unless dishwasher state = off then
1000
if now 2500 turn on tumble drier unless (etc etc)
if now 3500 turn on aircon/heatpump unless (etc etc)
if dishwasher + washing machine + tumble drier = on and power average
for last 3 readings 2000 then tumbled drier off...

That kind of thing?

Obviously programming isn't my forte nor is hardware integration but
looking at the overall characteristic of solar production pattern, in
the absence of an effective (longevity and cost wise) method of solar PV
energy storage, using a device that can switch on and of less critical
appliances like a tumbledrier, heat-pump/air-con etc depending on energy
production while leaving cycle-critical devices (dishwasher, washing
machine etc) to run their course seems to make sense not just from a PV
owners perspective but from a national perspective of using "smart
meters" to do the same thing in non PV residencies using feedback from
grid PV/wind production at the time. like a tiered, programmable
rule-set for critical and non-critical appliance control.

It's not something I'm going to be doing myself at least not at the
moment but currently all I see is people using "excess" electricity from
their PV arrays to heat a tank of water that can be done with gas at or
thermal PV for a fraction of the p/kWh price, the logic of reverse alchemy.




What you really need is a phase controller providing power to a circuit
that you connect to the heaters in the appliances.
This way you can use the solar to heat the eg. wash water whenever its
available even if its only a few hundred watts.

The problem is you need the controller (immersun charge ~£300 for one
that they dedicate to hot water) and a power circuit and modified
appliances to feed the heater (or other stuff that can use variable power).

If solar was to become really popular someone would make the appliances,
until then its DIY time.

You can buy ~40A controllers for about £50 but you need a high power
filter also at about £50 to stop interference.

You can plug things like storage heaters, swimming pool heaters,
kettles, etc and they will usually work fine.

On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 17:11:20 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

What you really need is a phase controller providing power to a circuit
that you connect to the heaters in the appliances.
This way you can use the solar to heat the eg. wash water whenever its
available even if its only a few hundred watts.

The problem is you need the controller (immersun charge ~£300 for one
that they dedicate to hot water) and a power circuit and modified
appliances to feed the heater (or other stuff that can use variable power).

that last bit is easy enough

If solar was to become really popular someone would make the appliances,
until then its DIY time.

You can buy ~40A controllers for about £50 but you need a high power
filter also at about £50 to stop interference.

£50 for an RFI filter, can you not make one for less?

You can plug things like storage heaters, swimming pool heaters,
kettles, etc and they will usually work fine.

Is that an electric pool heater run off solar PV?


NT

On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 18:42:47 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 17:11:20 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

What you really need is a phase controller providing power to a circuit
that you connect to the heaters in the appliances.
This way you can use the solar to heat the eg. wash water whenever its
available even if its only a few hundred watts.

The problem is you need the controller (immersun charge ~£300 for one
that they dedicate to hot water) and a power circuit and modified
appliances to feed the heater (or other stuff that can use variable power).

that last bit is easy enough

If solar was to become really popular someone would make the appliances,
until then its DIY time.

You can buy ~40A controllers for about £50 but you need a high power
filter also at about £50 to stop interference.

£50 for an RFI filter, can you not make one for less?

You can plug things like storage heaters, swimming pool heaters,
kettles, etc and they will usually work fine.

Is that an electric pool heater run off solar PV?


NT

It's going to be far more efficient to use solar thermal for pool heating.

Solar PV is around 12%efficient.
Solar thermal is around 75% efficient.

On Thursday, 31 March 2016 07:54:00 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 18:42:47 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 30 March 2016 17:11:20 UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:

What you really need is a phase controller providing power to a circuit
that you connect to the heaters in the appliances.
This way you can use the solar to heat the eg. wash water whenever its
available even if its only a few hundred watts.

The problem is you need the controller (immersun charge ~£300 for one
that they dedicate to hot water) and a power circuit and modified
appliances to feed the heater (or other stuff that can use variable power).

that last bit is easy enough

If solar was to become really popular someone would make the appliances,
until then its DIY time.

You can buy ~40A controllers for about £50 but you need a high power
filter also at about £50 to stop interference.

£50 for an RFI filter, can you not make one for less?

You can plug things like storage heaters, swimming pool heaters,
kettles, etc and they will usually work fine.

Is that an electric pool heater run off solar PV?

It's going to be far more efficient to use solar thermal for pool heating..

Solar PV is around 12%efficient.
Solar thermal is around 75% efficient.

and far far cheaper. £ per kWh is the real matter. Hence I was asking what pool heating meant - hopefully it means a pump for the solar HW.


NT

On 31/03/2016 07:53, harry wrote:

It's going to be far more efficient to use solar thermal for pool heating.

Solar PV is around 12%efficient.
Solar thermal is around 75% efficient.


Maybe but you won't do that as you don't get FITs to heat a pool using
solar thermal.