In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions. Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round. But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ? The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles inside the ES screw.
The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?
Simon.

On 13/01/2016 09:16, sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at Screwfix,
all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions. Then I
realised
the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round. But it got
me thinking
- should I change my pendants to ES fittings ? The adapters are
smaller that way round,
since the BC connector nestles inside the ES screw.
The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?
Simon.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to buy the right thing in the first place?

ES has become slightly more common in the UK as European chains like
Ikea and Olson tend to stock kit that is Edison screw. I have a mixture
of ES and BC in both sizes having lived overseas at various times.

I generally benefit from the unpopularity of ES as they are often
remaindered half price in Aldi/Lidl and work perfectly well enough. They
don't seem to have spotted that UK is mostly BC.

I see no merit making work changing light fittings for the sake of it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote:
On 13/01/2016 09:16, sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at Screwfix,
all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions. Then I
realised
the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round. But it got
me thinking
- should I change my pendants to ES fittings ? The adapters are
smaller that way round,
since the BC connector nestles inside the ES screw.
The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ? Any
reason not to change my fittings ?
Simon.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to buy the right thing in the first place?

ES has become slightly more common in the UK as European chains like
Ikea and Olson tend to stock kit that is Edison screw. I have a mixture
of ES and BC in both sizes having lived overseas at various times.

I generally benefit from the unpopularity of ES as they are often
remaindered half price in Aldi/Lidl and work perfectly well enough. They
don't seem to have spotted that UK is mostly BC.

I see no merit making work changing light fittings for the sake of it.


Also the normal lampshades will not fit as the ES outer diameter (+
insulation?) is greater. There don't seem to be easy ES equivalents for
the normal British pendant lampholder, it is better suited to purpose
designed light fitting/lamps where the different dimensions are designed in.

Seems to me ES is OK in enclosed fittings, particularly where the lamp
is base down but is a PITA for normal pendant fittings.

Chris K

On Wednesday, 13 January 2016 09:53:40 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 13/01/2016 09:16, sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at Screwfix,
all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions. Then I
realised
the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round. But it got
me thinking
- should I change my pendants to ES fittings ? The adapters are
smaller that way round,
since the BC connector nestles inside the ES screw.
The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?
Simon.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to buy the right thing in the first place?

ES has become slightly more common in the UK as European chains like
Ikea and Olson tend to stock kit that is Edison screw. I have a mixture
of ES and BC in both sizes having lived overseas at various times.

I generally benefit from the unpopularity of ES as they are often
remaindered half price in Aldi/Lidl and work perfectly well enough. They
don't seem to have spotted that UK is mostly BC.

I prefer ES but most of mine are BC.


I see no merit making work changing light fittings for the sake of it.

I do, if I see enough cheap bulbs why not change the fitting so you can use them. And if I want to know how many of X or Y it takes to screw in a light bulb I can't run scientific tests using BC can I :-)

sm_jamieson wrote:
Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ?

ISTM there's some such evidence - as in "today IKEA, tomorrow the
world".
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Robin wrote:
sm_jamieson wrote:
Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ?

ISTM there's some such evidence - as in "today IKEA, tomorrow the
world".

My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly globalised, bayonet
is going to occupy more of a backwater and there will be a shift towards ES
in the UK.

Mains plugs is a similar example, albeit restricted by legislation (is there
any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?). For instance it's not
unheard of to get a low-power appliance with a two-pin European plug, and then
a Euro to UK adaptor (eg a permanent-fit, clamp-on one) in the box.

Since it's rather ungainly to adapt BC to ES, I'd expect the 'Ikea effect'
to mean that portable lamps end up being ES, and maybe only fixed
installations BC.

Presumably ES pendant lampholders are common on the Continent? In which
case, is it contrary to wiring regs to import and fit them?

(One advantage of ES is you can be sure of polarity, which is something the
UK seems to care more about than other regimes)

Maybe this will all be moot if the concept of a removable 'bulb' disappears
in the brave new world of portable LED lighting... I can't say I've seen any
LED cycle lamps (for instance) with removable LEDs.

Theo

In article ,
Theo wrote:
My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly globalised,
bayonet is going to occupy more of a backwater and there will be a shift
towards ES in the UK.

Mains plugs is a similar example, albeit restricted by legislation (is
there any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?). For instance it's
not unheard of to get a low-power appliance with a two-pin European
plug, and then a Euro to UK adaptor (eg a permanent-fit, clamp-on one)
in the box.

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

--
*When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Theo wrote:
My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly globalised,
bayonet is going to occupy more of a backwater and there will be a shift
towards ES in the UK.

Mains plugs is a similar example, albeit restricted by legislation (is
there any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?). For instance it's
not unheard of to get a low-power appliance with a two-pin European
plug, and then a Euro to UK adaptor (eg a permanent-fit, clamp-on one)
in the box.

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

Really? Are the European and US plugs not rated up to 13 A (or similar)? Are
there heavier-duty plugs/sockets in those countries for big appliances like
electric fires, kettles, tumble driers etc.

Are US and European plugs capable of having a fuse fitted in them, or do
their appliances always blow the circuit (eg downstairs ring main) fuse in
the event of an appliance fault? I wonder whether RCDs and MCBs will ever
become so cheap that they are fitted to each appliance plug so a faulty
appliance disrupts only that appliance rather than taking out the whole
house.

Another advantage of our plug is that polarity is guaranteed: there's no
live/neutral ambiguity. And all appliances can be earthed (assuming that the
appliance is fitted with a three-core cable and the plug has a metal rather
than plastic earth pin!).


I wish the bayonet blub had become a world standard, because it is *much*
less likely to corrode in place than the ES bulb, and it is faster to
change - it only requires a flick of the wrist through about 10 degrees
rather than several turns.

Until I went to Ikea, I'd thought that ES was confined to the US, and that
Europe used the BC like us - a nice clear BC=240V / ES=120V distinction. But
no. Do 240V and 120V bulbs have identical-sized screw threads, or are they
deliberately incompatible sizes to avoid putting a 120V bulb in a 240V
fitting?

On Wednesday, 13 January 2016 13:42:33 UTC+1, NY wrote:
Really? Are the European and US plugs not rated up to 13 A (or similar)?

Can only speak for Germany. Larger plugs are rated for (I think) 16A.
The smaller Euro two-pin (no earth) plug are lower 2.5A.

Are there heavier-duty plugs/sockets in those countries for big
appliances like electric fires, kettles, tumble driers etc.

Yes. Also for anything that needs an earth.


Are US and European plugs capable of having a fuse fitted in them
No

or do
their appliances always blow the circuit (eg downstairs ring main)
What ring main? Everything is wired as (chained) radials. But yes,
the only fuse is in the consumer unit.


fuse in
the event of an appliance fault? I wonder whether RCDs and MCBs will ever
become so cheap that they are fitted to each appliance plug so a faulty
appliance disrupts only that appliance rather than taking out the whole
house.

Another advantage of our plug is that polarity is guaranteed: there's no
live/neutral ambiguity.

Yes. We have a some light that switch on or off by a capacitive effect.
They don't work if plugged in the wrong way round - the plug has to be
rotated 180 degrees.

And all appliances can be earthed (assuming that
the appliance is fitted with a three-core cable and the plug has a metal
rather than plastic earth pin!).

Until I went to Ikea, I'd thought that ES was confined to the US, and that
Europe used the BC like us - a nice clear BC=240V / ES=120V distinction.
But no.

Do 240V and 120V bulbs have identical-sized screw threads, or are
they deliberately incompatible sizes to avoid putting a 120V bulb in a
240V fitting?
No idea, but I would guess from the name ("Edison") that they are identical.

NY wrote
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Theo wrote

My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly globalised,
bayonet is going to occupy more of a backwater and there will be a shift
towards ES in the UK.

Mains plugs is a similar example, albeit restricted by legislation (is
there any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?). For instance it's
not unheard of to get a low-power appliance with a two-pin European
plug, and then a Euro to UK adaptor (eg a permanent-fit, clamp-on one)
in the box.

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

Really? Are the European and US plugs not rated up to 13 A (or similar)?

Yes there are.

Are there heavier-duty plugs/sockets in those countries for big appliances
like electric fires, kettles, tumble driers etc.

Not with 240V systems. There are 15A plugs as well, but you
only see those used on a few big appliances like the old stick
welders with a ****ing great transformer inside and some
window air conditioners and stuff like that.

Are US and European plugs capable of having a fuse fitted in them,

Nope.

or do their appliances always blow the circuit (eg downstairs ring main)
fuse in the event of an appliance fault?

They don’t generally used ring mains in their houses.

Yes, an appliance fault that blows the fuse does take out the
fuse or breaker for that circuit but because there are more
circuits, you don’t normally see the entire house go out or
even one level of the house either. And few appliance failures
take out the fuse or breaker anyway. I have seen that very
rarely indeed and our system doesn’t use fused plugs or
ring mains much at all in houses although ring mains are
legal here, just not used much at all in houses.

I wonder whether RCDs and MCBs will ever become so cheap that they are
fitted to each appliance plug so a faulty appliance disrupts only that
appliance

They have been for a long time now and
you do see them in plenty of plug boards.

rather than taking out the whole house.

That doesn’t normally happen because most
other places don’t use ring mains much in houses.

Another advantage of our plug is that polarity is guaranteed: there's no
live/neutral ambiguity. And all appliances can be earthed (assuming that
the appliance is fitted with a three-core cable and the plug has a metal
rather than plastic earth pin!).

There are plenty of other plug designs that have that advantage too.

I wish the bayonet blub had become a world standard,

I don’t. I've never liked them much, its too easy to have cheap
designs that don’t hold the bulb very solidly and are easy to
damage because of the way the metal retaining pins are held
in the bulb holder.

because it is *much* less likely to corrode in place than the ES bulb,

Never had that problem with any of my ES bulbs and I do
use them almost everywhere because I prefer PAR38 bulbs.

and it is faster to change - it only requires a flick of the wrist through
about 10 degrees rather than several turns.

Sure, but you don’t change a bulb often enough for that to matter.

I prefer the much more solid retention of the bulb myself.

Until I went to Ikea, I'd thought that ES was confined to the US, and that
Europe used the BC like us - a nice clear BC=240V / ES=120V distinction.
But no. Do 240V and 120V bulbs have identical-sized screw threads,

Yes.

or are they deliberately incompatible sizes to avoid putting a 120V bulb
in a 240V fitting?

No. There is more than one ES size tho.

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 12:42:33 PM UTC, NY wrote:

Another advantage of our plug is that polarity is guaranteed: there's no
live/neutral ambiguity.

In some countries, Norway for example, there is no neutral. The house gets all three phases (but not the neutral) and each room has sockets connected to one pair of phases.

This means that if you blow one of the three main fuses you end up with all the appliances in one room being connected in series with all the appliances in another room. This leads to bizarre effects such as the TV in the front room coming on when someone switches on the toaster in the kitchen.

In article ,
"NY" writes:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Theo wrote:
My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly globalised,
bayonet is going to occupy more of a backwater and there will be a shift
towards ES in the UK.

Mains plugs is a similar example, albeit restricted by legislation (is
there any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?). For instance it's
not unheard of to get a low-power appliance with a two-pin European
plug, and then a Euro to UK adaptor (eg a permanent-fit, clamp-on one)
in the box.

That's allowed, although I think it legally has to be fitted by the
retailer before the buyer takes the item home.

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

Really? Are the European and US plugs not rated up to 13 A (or similar)? Are
there heavier-duty plugs/sockets in those countries for big appliances like
electric fires, kettles, tumble driers etc.

Larger plugs are used in these countries, but not normally for portable
appliances, only stationary/fixed appliances.

However, comparisons of current ratings between different countries is
also down to differences in their regulatory authorities. Many years
ago, BT (probably GPO) tried to get the US 15A plug certified in Europe
for use on their racks, but it only got a 50V 2.5A rating here.

Are US and European plugs capable of having a fuse fitted in them, or do

No

their appliances always blow the circuit (eg downstairs ring main) fuse in

Blow the circuit, but the circuit is normally just a few outlets.

the event of an appliance fault? I wonder whether RCDs and MCBs will ever
become so cheap that they are fitted to each appliance plug so a faulty
appliance disrupts only that appliance rather than taking out the whole
house.

They're cheap in the US, but also nowhere near the reliability of EU ones.

Another advantage of our plug is that polarity is guaranteed: there's no
live/neutral ambiguity. And all appliances can be earthed (assuming that the
appliance is fitted with a three-core cable and the plug has a metal rather
than plastic earth pin!).

US has retro-designed polarity into their system.
A few countries don't have a neutral (any conductor near earth protential)
at socket outlets.

I wish the bayonet blub had become a world standard, because it is *much*
less likely to corrode in place than the ES bulb, and it is faster to
change - it only requires a flick of the wrist through about 10 degrees
rather than several turns.

Until I went to Ikea, I'd thought that ES was confined to the US, and that
Europe used the BC like us - a nice clear BC=240V / ES=120V distinction. But
no. Do 240V and 120V bulbs have identical-sized screw threads, or are they
deliberately incompatible sizes to avoid putting a 120V bulb in a 240V
fitting?

US and Canada are E26, rest of world is E27 (Japan is mixed).
You can often get an E27 lamp into an E26 holder, but sometimes it
will jam and then the wrong bits unscrew when you try to remove it
(but that's quite common with some E26 holders anyway).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

Agreed. However there is market pressure for 'one global SKU'.

There are plenty of ways around that:
Equipping the item with an IEC socket and then supplying the appropriate
cable as a extra
Equipping the item with a micro USB socket and not shipping any kind of
charger
Equipping the item with a wall wart with removable face plates
Equipping the item with a US/Euro plug and adding a clamp-on adaptor
Shipping a 'travel adaptor' (I think this is forbidden in the UK,
but may be allowed elsewhere)

I suggest that, if ES in table lamps isn't prohibited by code, globalised
supply will mean it'll become the de-facto standard. That is, if they don't
go all LED and abandon removable fittings altogether.

Theo

On Wednesday, 13 January 2016 12:12:58 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements.

We do not. We have one type of plug (shavers and mantel-clocks apart) which must be used for all plug-in domestic purposes, and we generally have too few wall-sockets. The 13A plug is too big for all ordinary purposes except for heaters and domestic appliances.

For new-build, we should have another type of ring main, rated for half of the current, and with plentiful 230V AC wall sockets similar to IEC C13/C14 (cf. kettle and computer monitor leads). The plugs, when shrouded by resilient plastic, are strong enough for being trodden on. They would, of course, be fused.

We should also have a smaller and even more plentiful type of socket, different from any in current use for any different purpose, supplying say 12V 1A (AC xor DC), for small electronic equipment.

That should be done by way of a pan-European Standard.

But it will not happen in our time. |

--
(c) Dr. S. Lartius, UK. Gmail: dr.s.lartius@

On 13/01/16 13:00, wrote:
We should also have a smaller and even more plentiful type of socket,
different from any in current use for any different purpose,
supplying say 12V 1A (AC xor DC), for small electronic equipment.

That is becoming USB style sockets

However, they cant take the punishment.


--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.

"Saki"

In article ,
wrote:
Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements.

We do not. We have one type of plug (shavers and mantel-clocks apart)
which must be used for all plug-in domestic purposes, and we generally
have too few wall-sockets. The 13A plug is too big for all ordinary
purposes except for heaters and domestic appliances.

The size of the plug isn't generally important within reason.

For new-build, we should have another type of ring main, rated for half
of the current, and with plentiful 230V AC wall sockets similar to IEC
C13/C14 (cf. kettle and computer monitor leads). The plugs, when
shrouded by resilient plastic, are strong enough for being trodden on.
They would, of course, be fused.

Right. So double the chance of having sockets where you don't need/want
them. And equally not where you do.

We should also have a smaller and even more plentiful type of socket,
different from any in current use for any different purpose, supplying
say 12V 1A (AC xor DC), for small electronic equipment.

Given a 12v 1 amp supply fits in a wall wart which plugs into the ring, I
can't see any advantage in this at all. But lots of disadvantages.

That should be done by way of a pan-European Standard.

If there is you can just about guarantee it will be worse than our current
one.

But it will not happen in our time. |

--
*Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo ,
escribió:

The 13A plug is too big for all ordinary purposes except for
heaters and domestic appliances.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ThinPlug-Fol.../dp/B00851VBX6

Welcome to the 20th century.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Theo wrote

My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly
globalised, bayonet is going to occupy more of a backwater
and there will be a shift towards ES in the UK.

Mains plugs is a similar example, albeit restricted by legislation
(is there any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?). For instance
it's not unheard of to get a low-power appliance with a two-pin
European plug, and then a Euro to UK adaptor (eg a permanent-fit,
clamp-on one) in the box.

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde
step - and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug
which covers pretty well all domestic requirements.

Bull****, we do too. And aren't stupid enough to have a fuse
in it, so modern fully molded cables are vastly more reliable.

We used to have multiple standards of plugs.
Thank gawd those days have gone.

They haven't actually there.

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde
step - and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug
which covers pretty well all domestic requirements.

Bull****, we do too. And aren't stupid enough to have a fuse
in it, so modern fully molded cables are vastly more reliable.

Thanks for confirming you know less about UK 13 amps plugs than most
things. If that is possible.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote
Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements.

Bull****, we do too. And aren't stupid enough to have a fuse in it, so
modern fully molded cables are vastly more reliable.

The fact that cables/plugs are fully moulded doesn't imply that the plug is
unfused, which is what you seem to be saying. All plugs, whether moulded
onto the lead or separable with a lead that you wire in yourself, have a
fuse: the only difference is that the fuse is accessed from the inside
(after unscrewing the lid) in wireable plugs, whereas it's accessed from the
outside, on the side where the pins protrude, with a moulded plug.

En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

+1

+2

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders. You'd think it would be
simple.

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/01/2016 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders. You'd think it would be
simple.


Not the prettiest things, but:

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00306741/

--
Cheers, Rob

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:37:56 +0000, RJH wrote:

On 13/01/2016 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders. You'd think it would be
simple.


Not the prettiest things, but:

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00306741/

This is better value and less fugly - just a simple swap:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60263041/
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On 13/01/16 11:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders. You'd think it would be
simple.

I asked the same thing in the newsgroup 18 months ago. Doesn't look like
much has changed.

--

Jeff

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders.
You'd think it would be simple.

Not that hard if you look in the right place.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_st_pr...price-asc-rank
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?...02&needQuery=y
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_fr...endant&_sop=15

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:25:02 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders. You'd think it would be
simple.

It is - just swap. As in another post:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60263041/

Th real problem is lack of good batten holders. Nothing like a ceiling rose
with all the terminals - and one I saw seemed to have a metal strap between
the terminals!
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 11:25:02 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
sm_jamieson wrote:
In the light of the thread about the LAP 60W equiv LED bulbs at
Screwfix, all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions.
Then I realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.
But it got me thinking - should I change my pendants to ES fittings ?
The adapters are smaller that way round, since the BC connector nestles
inside the ES screw. The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common
than BC ? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

Good luck in finding pendant ES bulb holders. You'd think it would be
simple.

It is - just swap. As in another post:
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/60263041/

Th real problem is lack of good batten holders.

Plenty of those too.

Nothing like a ceiling rose with all the terminals

Fraid so.

- and one I saw seemed to have a metal strap between the terminals!

So don't buy it.

sm_jamieson wrote:

Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC
? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

I don't know if they are becoming more common,
but they seem to me to be a much better system.

By contrast, the British 3-pin plug and socket
appear to me to be far safer and more reliable
than their 2- and 3-pin continental counterparts.
--
Timothy Murphy
gayleard /at/ eircom.net
School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin

"Timothy Murphy" wrote in message
...
sm_jamieson wrote:

Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC
? Any reason not to change my fittings ?

I don't know if they are becoming more common,
but they seem to me to be a much better system.

In what way is ES better than BC. I'd have said BC is far better because it
is quicker to change. It's a shame that there isn't a single standard for
all bulbs of the same voltage, to avoid the need to keep in small ES, large
ES, small BC, large BC bulbs for all the different fittings. My old house
was a show house and came with various light fittings in different rooms.
They'd used all hour different types of fittings (SES, LES, SBC, LBC) in
different rooms, even though all bulbs were the same size of glass (standard
candle bulb).

I wish someone would outlaw light fittings which expose the bare bulb - the
glare from a frosted bulb is bad enough but the glare from the cheapo clear
bulbs, where you can see the filament, is even worse.

I wish I could persuade my wife that I prefer to read in bed by a light
behind (or at one side of) the bed head, rather than by an overhead light
beyond the foot of the bed, where it's right in your field of vision when
you are looking at a book: rather than illuminating the page more brightly
than the rest of the room, you get the opposite :-(

On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:51:47 -0000, "NY" wrote:

snip

I wish I could persuade my wife that I prefer to read in bed by a light
behind (or at one side of) the bed head, rather than by an overhead light
beyond the foot of the bed, where it's right in your field of vision when
you are looking at a book: rather than illuminating the page more brightly
than the rest of the room, you get the opposite :-(

Two words: Kindle Paperwhite. ;-)

My Mrs had a Kindle 3 for a long time and it was perfect for her,
*except* if she wanted to read in bed when I wanted to sleep, when she
would go downstairs. She had considered the Paperwhite but was going
to hang on till the K3 broke. As it was discounted just before Xmyth
we (daughter and I) got her one and she's really happy with it.

With the backlight turned right down (it can be pretty bright) I
really don't notice if she's reading it as I fall asleep or if she
wakes up in the night and has a quick read.

But then I guess a Kindle (or any eReader / tablet) would only be a
solution if what you want to read is available in electronic form.

It's funny, the eReaders are what many people who bought laptops in
the early days actually wanted ... 'to have recipes in the kitchen' or
'read manuals in the garage', but few ever used laptops for either of
course.

Do they do the HBOL in Kindle format?

Cheers, T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Jan 2016 12:51:47 -0000, "NY" wrote:

snip

I wish I could persuade my wife that I prefer to read in bed by a light
behind (or at one side of) the bed head, rather than by an overhead light
beyond the foot of the bed, where it's right in your field of vision when
you are looking at a book: rather than illuminating the page more brightly
than the rest of the room, you get the opposite :-(

Two words: Kindle Paperwhite. ;-)

My Mrs had a Kindle 3 for a long time and it was perfect for her,
*except* if she wanted to read in bed when I wanted to sleep, when she
would go downstairs. She had considered the Paperwhite but was going
to hang on till the K3 broke. As it was discounted just before Xmyth
we (daughter and I) got her one and she's really happy with it.

With the backlight turned right down (it can be pretty bright) I
really don't notice if she's reading it as I fall asleep or if she
wakes up in the night and has a quick read.

But then I guess a Kindle (or any eReader / tablet) would only be a
solution if what you want to read is available in electronic form.

I don't actually find them that convenient to use when reading in bed.

Not that I find physical books that convenient when reading in bed either.

In theory it wouldn't be hard to have some sort of mount for the kindle
that suspends it in front of your face, but I love the way you page thru
the pages on the iphone kindle app and that wouldn't work with that
sort of mount. You really need some sort of bluetooth small thing you
could have flat on the mattress under your hand for paging. Specially
in winter where its desirable to keep your hands under the blankets.

Spose you could have an extra screen on the iphone
and suspend that and have the iphone under your hand.

I don't read in bed anymore, prefer to read ebooks on the kindle
on the main PC with the 24" widescreen monitor and the mouse
on an old half book cover in my lap in a deep armchair with my
feet up which is how I do almost all the computing in the house.

It's funny, the eReaders are what many people who bought laptops in
the early days actually wanted ... 'to have recipes in the kitchen' or
'read manuals in the garage', but few ever used laptops for either of
course.

I do. Have a laptop in the kitchen for that.

Do they do the HBOL in Kindle format?

What ? Nothing obvious with google.

Plenty of converters like Calibre.


My biggest problem is that I get lots of books that I want
to read from garage/yard sales for peanuts and have never
been crude enough to chop the spines off with a ****ing
great hydraulic guillotine and run the pages thru an automated
scanner and OCR to get them into ebook format. Seems much
too crude a way to deal with books but its what I should do.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2016 10:13:19 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:

snip

With the backlight turned right down (it can be pretty bright) I
really don't notice if she's reading it as I fall asleep or if she
wakes up in the night and has a quick read.

But then I guess a Kindle (or any eReader / tablet) would only be a
solution if what you want to read is available in electronic form.

I don't actually find them that convenient to use when reading in bed.

Not that I find physical books that convenient when reading in bed either.

Quite.

In theory it wouldn't be hard to have some sort of mount for the kindle
that suspends it in front of your face,

Like a longer harmonica mount the 'one man bands' use or the music
stands for a marching band. ;-)

but I love the way you page thru
the pages on the iphone kindle app and that wouldn't work with that
sort of mount.

Not tried the iPhone Kindle app and only briefly the Android one (when
we were out and the Mrs forgot her Kindle).

You really need some sort of bluetooth small thing you
could have flat on the mattress under your hand for paging.

I've got a b/t touchpad on the Raspberry Pi but not sure if the Kindle
(3 or Paperwhite) had b/t support?

Specially
in winter where its desirable to keep your hands under the blankets.

;-)

Spose you could have an extra screen on the iphone
and suspend that and have the iphone under your hand.

I think that's getting a bit complicated / extreme. ;-)

I don't read in bed anymore, prefer to read ebooks on the kindle
on the main PC with the 24" widescreen monitor and the mouse
on an old half book cover in my lap in a deep armchair with my
feet up which is how I do almost all the computing in the house.

Comfey.

It's funny, the eReaders are what many people who bought laptops in
the early days actually wanted ... 'to have recipes in the kitchen' or
'read manuals in the garage', but few ever used laptops for either of
course.

I do. Have a laptop in the kitchen for that.

Do they do the HBOL in Kindle format?

What ? Nothing obvious with google.

Sorry, Workshop manuals ... Haynes Book Of Lies (as they are known by
some over here).

Plenty of converters like Calibre.

Yeah, and I think you can eMail smaller sizes of text to yourself or
summat?


My biggest problem is that I get lots of books that I want
to read from garage/yard sales for peanuts and have never
been crude enough to chop the spines off with a ****ing
great hydraulic guillotine

I've got one of them and it will easily cut the spine off a fat
telephone directory. The blade is horribly sharp.

and run the pages thru an automated
scanner and OCR to get them into ebook format.

My Fujitsu Scansnap makes a reasonable job of that as well.

Seems much
too crude a way to deal with books but its what I should do.

Same here ... it's quite a big decision to put a book / manual under
the knife like that but with my thermal binder I can normally put them
back together again. But ho hum, if you want en electronic version
that is otherwise unavailable what can you do ...

Cheers, T i m

NY wrote
Timothy Murphy wrote
sm_jamieson wrote

Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ? Any reason not to change my
fittings ?

I don't know if they are becoming more common,
but they seem to me to be a much better system.

In what way is ES better than BC.

Holds the bulb much more securely, particularly with the
cheapest sockets so any socket will hold the bulb fine.

I'd have said BC is far better because it is quicker to change.

But you change bulbs so rarely that that is a trivial advantage.

It's a shame that there isn't a single standard for all bulbs of the same
voltage, to avoid the need to keep in small ES, large ES, small BC, large
BC bulbs for all the different fittings.

Yes. But you really do need something different for the smallest bulbs.

My old house was a show house and came with various light fittings in
different rooms. They'd used all hour different types of fittings (SES,
LES, SBC, LBC) in different rooms, even though all bulbs were the same
size of glass (standard candle bulb).

Easy enough to standardise on one now.

I wish someone would outlaw light fittings which expose the bare bulb

No thanks, I want to be able to do what makes sense in any particular
situation.

I do in fact mostly use bare PAR38s where I'm not using a long tube fluoro.

- the glare from a frosted bulb is bad enough but the glare from the
cheapo clear bulbs, where you can see the filament, is even worse.

Sure, but the end user should be the one who makes
that choice, not some shiny bum bureaucrat paper pusher.

I wish I could persuade my wife that I prefer to read in bed by a light
behind (or at one side of) the bed head, rather than by an overhead light
beyond the foot of the bed, where it's right in your field of vision when
you are looking at a book: rather than illuminating the page more brightly
than the rest of the room, you get the opposite :-(

You could trade her in on a more sensible model. Can be expensive tho.

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 12:51:36 PM UTC, NY wrote:


In what way is ES better than BC?

The ES has no moving parts. I've sometimes had the little sprung pins in a BC seize up.

In article , RobertL
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 12:51:36 PM UTC, NY wrote:


In what way is ES better than BC?

The ES has no moving parts. I've sometimes had the little sprung pins in
a BC seize up.

I've had them break

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
RobertL wrote:

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 12:51:36 PM UTC, NY wrote:


In what way is ES better than BC?

The ES has no moving parts. I've sometimes had the little sprung pins
in a BC seize up.

Don't talk cock. The ES has a moving part - the bulb when you screw it
in. And the join between the glass and the base is inherently weak, so
don't leave the blub there for years at a time or cross-thread it.

Be interesting to compare like for like. Most of the ES I have here are
inside fittings, and usually a high quality ceramic design. The odd
pendant BC bulbholder low cost and plastic. And the latter can give
trouble after many years. But are cheap as chips and simple to change. So
I'd like a cheap as chips ES plastic pendant bulb holder to compare. But
for some reason, none of my usual electrical wholesalers stock them. Nor
do the sheds - even where the majority of the bulbs they sell are ES. But
all seem to sell BC bulbholders on their own. So most odd. ;-)

--
*War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
RobertL wrote:

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 12:51:36 PM UTC, NY wrote:


In what way is ES better than BC?

The ES has no moving parts. I've sometimes had the little sprung pins in
a BC
seize up.

Don't talk cock. The ES has a moving part - the bulb when you screw it
in. And the join between the glass and the base is inherently weak, so
don't leave the blub there for years at a time

Some of mine have been there for decades now and still unscrew fine.

or cross-thread it.

Never managed to do that to even one.

People wrote:

all the BC versions were sold out so I got some ES versions. Then I
realised the adapters I got off ebay are all the other way round.

You can get adaptors, but they're not really legal or altogether safe. It's 50/50 whether the outer screw thread is live or not, and I wouldn't want to put 100w in one.


The big question. Are ES bulbs becoming more common than BC ?

no

Any reason not to change my fittings ?

BC are safer, more reliable and more common


My guess would be that, as lighting becomes increasingly globalised, bayonet
is going to occupy more of a backwater and there will be a shift towards ES
in the UK.

It's been globalised for many decades. That hasn't happened.


(is there
any relevant regulations relating to BC v ES?).

not afaik


Presumably ES pendant lampholders are common on the Continent? In which
case, is it contrary to wiring regs to import and fit them?

it depends if they meet our legal requirements. From what I saw of foreign electrics years ago, very little did. That might have changed since.


(One advantage of ES is you can be sure of polarity,

which has no effect on lightbulbs. In fact ES has a downside, namely that if polarity isn't right you've got an exposed live outer screw thread. The outer base of BC lamps is insulated.


Going back to that type of plug in the UK would be a retrograde step -
and how. We are fairly unique in having only the one plug which covers
pretty well all domestic requirements. We used to have multiple standards
of plugs. Thank gawd those days have gone.

Really? Are the European and US plugs not rated up to 13 A (or similar)? Are

IIRC euro are 16A, US 10A 110v = 1.1kW.


there heavier-duty plugs/sockets in those countries for big appliances like
electric fires, kettles, tumble driers etc.

In US, those run on 220v. I think TDs tend to be 5kW.


Are US and European plugs capable of having a fuse fitted in them,

not as is. Redesigning them to would leave lots of unfused plugs about

or do
their appliances always blow the circuit (eg downstairs ring main) fuse in
the event of an appliance fault?

yes

I wonder whether RCDs and MCBs will ever
become so cheap that they are fitted to each appliance plug so a faulty
appliance disrupts only that appliance rather than taking out the whole
house.

For now fuses are cheap & good enough. In the distant future I expect we'll see little load characterisation computers that will pick up on a whole range of abnormalities.



no. Do 240V and 120V bulbs have identical-sized screw threads,

no

or are they
deliberately incompatible sizes to avoid putting a 120V bulb in a 240V
fitting?

yes - but it doesn't work. You can still put a 120v in the slightly bigger 240v socket. Edison screw standards are as ancient as the name suggests.


I wish someone would outlaw light fittings which expose the bare bulb - the

Personally I'm tired of all the outlawing of perfectly good things. Can't we have some basic freedoms back?


glare from a frosted bulb is bad enough but the glare from the cheapo clear
bulbs, where you can see the filament, is even worse.

so don't buy them.


Agreed. However there is market pressure for 'one global SKU'.

But no satisfactory solution to that minor issue


I suggest that, if ES in table lamps isn't prohibited by code, globalised
supply will mean it'll become the de-facto standard.

it hasn't though. We were buying empire made electrics half a century ago.



We do not. We have one type of plug (shavers and mantel-clocks apart)
which must be used for all plug-in domestic purposes, and we generally
have too few wall-sockets. The 13A plug is too big for all ordinary
purposes except for heaters and domestic appliances.

Yes. We ought to have a 2 pin version of it for moulded plugs only. Then you can fit 2 or 3 where one 3 pin goes now. And full compatibility is retained.

For new-build, we should have another type of ring main, rated for half of
the current, and with plentiful 230V AC wall sockets similar to IEC C13/
C14 (cf. kettle and computer monitor leads). The plugs, when shrouded by
resilient plastic, are strong enough for being trodden on. They would, of
course, be fused.

Similar to? Not yet another standard! Just use IEC C13s. They need fusing at 10A. An easy way to achieve this is simply to make sockets with BS1362s and IEC C13s on. Or far better use 2 pin 13A plugs.


We should also have a smaller and even more plentiful type of socket,
different from any in current use for any different purpose, supplying say
12V 1A (AC xor DC), for small electronic equipment.

That should be done by way of a pan-European Standard.

But it will not happen in our time.

Actually it is. USB is now shifting from 5v only to 5-24v at at least 2A.



Do 240V and 120V bulbs have identical-sized screw threads, or are
snip

No idea, but I would guess from the name ("Edison") that they are identical.

E26 in US, E27 here


NT

In article ,
wrote:
People wrote:

[Snip]

We do not. We have one type of plug (shavers and mantel-clocks apart)
which must be used for all plug-in domestic purposes, and we generally
have too few wall-sockets. The 13A plug is too big for all ordinary
purposes except for heaters and domestic appliances.

Yes. We ought to have a 2 pin version of it for moulded plugs only. Then
you can fit 2 or 3 where one 3 pin goes now. And full compatibility is
retained.

Since most of our sockets are shuttered, requiring an earth pin to open the
shutter, how is this going to work?

[Snip]

We should also have a smaller and even more plentiful type of socket,
different from any in current use for any different purpose, supplying
say 12V 1A (AC xor DC), for small electronic equipment.

That should be done by way of a pan-European Standard.

But it will not happen in our time.

Actually it is. USB is now shifting from 5v only to 5-24v at at least 2A.

Oh dear, another botched standard. Put your 5v phone charging lead into
24v socket and bang goes the phone

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England