I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's
cleaner (as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water)
but I can neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be
undercoating before glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the
sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them to use
sugar soap

On 05/01/2016 20:58, Chris Hogg wrote:
but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint.

I have to agree from my experience. I reckon a couple of quick passes
with fine sandpaper will give a better key.

On 05/01/16 20:56, Phil L wrote:
Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's
cleaner (as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water)
but I can neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be
undercoating before glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the
sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them to use
sugar soap



I used sugar soap on an area known to be greasy and it worked a lot
better than Flash.

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:50:43 UTC, Phil L wrote:
Another John wrote:

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them to use
sugar soap

It's good for nicotine stains fwiw.


NT

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:42:49 +0000, Another John wrote:

I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Looked at once - said "rinse thoroughly". Only way to do that is with a hose
pipe!
Used Star Drops with good results (water-based gloss on a hand rail OK after
about 22 years), but the mdern version seems weaker and might not be the
same stuff at all.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:58:13 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

This may interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_soap

I have used TSP, trisodium phosphate, containing just that, not an imitation.

This will take off grease, and it will also etch (most/many/not necessarily all)
oil-based gloss paints -- and also glass, sometimes...

It most definitely needs to be washed off carefully, and the trouble this causes
needs to weighed against the work savings vs. a wipe with washing-up and/or
sandpaper.


Thomas Prufer

On 06/01/2016 10:34, Thomas Prufer wrote:
On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:58:13 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

This may interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_soap

I have used TSP, trisodium phosphate, containing just that, not an imitation.

This will take off grease, and it will also etch (most/many/not necessarily all)
oil-based gloss paints -- and also glass, sometimes...

It most definitely needs to be washed off carefully, and the trouble this causes
needs to weighed against the work savings vs. a wipe with washing-up and/or
sandpaper.


Thomas Prufer


+1. TSP used to be the main ingredient but, since the outlawing of
phosphates, it's just surfactants and abrasive. Was only ever
justifiable on greasy surfaces

In article ,
Thomas Prufer wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jan 2016 20:58:13 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

This may interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_soap

I have used TSP, trisodium phosphate, containing just that, not an imitation.

This will take off grease, and it will also etch (most/many/not necessarily
all) oil-based gloss paints -- and also glass, sometimes...

It most definitely needs to be washed off carefully, ...

Well (reading the Wikipedia article that Chris pointed us to) if it's
TSP, then rinsing off would indeed seem advisable. However the bottles
of sugar soap that I have had now and in the past have always said "No
need to rinse!"

This discussion has been useful for me -- thanks chaps. I won't be
using it in the future -- just the more traditional methods of cleaning
and keying old gloss paint.

Cheers
John

On 05/01/2016 21:30, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/01/16 20:56, Phil L wrote:
Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's
cleaner (as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water)
but I can neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be
undercoating before glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the
sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them
to use
sugar soap



I used sugar soap on an area known to be greasy and it worked a lot
better than Flash.

+1, though I havn't compared it with Cillit Bang.

In the nuclear power business, surfactants are used to remove
radioactive materials from paint and metal surfaces. A few years ago
Sellafield ran a comprehensive trial of their "industrial" cleaners and
some domestic products. Cillit Bang was the clear winner.

On Wed, 06 Jan 2016 15:24:55 +0000, Another John wrote:

Well (reading the Wikipedia article that Chris pointed us to) if it's
TSP, then rinsing off would indeed seem advisable. However the bottles
of sugar soap that I have had now and in the past have always said "No
need to rinse!"

This discussion has been useful for me -- thanks chaps. I won't be
using it in the future -- just the more traditional methods of cleaning
and keying old gloss paint.

Dishwashing machine detergent is a useful substitute for TSP. Cuts grease, and,
like TSP, may roughen paints. (Another one to try is soda -- sodium carbonate).

Thomas Prufer

On Wednesday, 6 January 2016 16:51:38 UTC, Thomas Prufer wrote:

Dishwashing machine detergent is a useful substitute for TSP. Cuts grease, and,
like TSP, may roughen paints.

last time I looked it still contained TSP.


NT

On 06/01/2016 16:12, newshound wrote:
On 05/01/2016 21:30, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/01/16 20:56, Phil L wrote:
Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's
cleaner (as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water)
but I can neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be
undercoating before glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the
sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them
to use
sugar soap



I used sugar soap on an area known to be greasy and it worked a lot
better than Flash.

+1, though I havn't compared it with Cillit Bang.

In the nuclear power business, surfactants are used to remove
radioactive materials from paint and metal surfaces. A few years ago
Sellafield ran a comprehensive trial of their "industrial" cleaners and
some domestic products. Cillit Bang was the clear winner.

How impressive is that in a funny sort of way

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

It's primarily used in kitchens to de-grease walls & ceilings etc. prior to repainting.
'Spect there's better stuff nowadays.

harry wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ...
simply wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ...
provides a key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's
cleaner (as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm
water) but I can neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll
be undercoating before glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out
the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

It's primarily used in kitchens to de-grease walls & ceilings etc.
prior to repainting. 'Spect there's better stuff nowadays.

It worked well in our kitchen.

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016 at 5:43:45 PM UTC, stuart noble wrote:
On 06/01/2016 16:12, newshound wrote:
On 05/01/2016 21:30, Tim Watts wrote:
On 05/01/16 20:56, Phil L wrote:
Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's
cleaner (as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water)
but I can neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be
undercoating before glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the
sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?

I've no idea where this old wives tale came from but of all the painters
I've worked with over the past 35 years, I've never known any of them
to use
sugar soap



I used sugar soap on an area known to be greasy and it worked a lot
better than Flash.

+1, though I havn't compared it with Cillit Bang.

In the nuclear power business, surfactants are used to remove
radioactive materials from paint and metal surfaces. A few years ago
Sellafield ran a comprehensive trial of their "industrial" cleaners and
some domestic products. Cillit Bang was the clear winner.

How impressive is that in a funny sort of way

Thats why Barry Scott was shouting, had to be heard in portective suit " Bang! and the plutomium is gone..."

On 05/01/2016 20:42, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John



I find it a great cleaner .... is excellent for prep of walls before
painting .... really cleans them well

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get away without using it.. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more effective than sugar soap.

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing
soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit
refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty
woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want
to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get
away without using it. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more
effective than sugar soap.

The paint this post refers to will have fallen off by now. ;-)

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get away without using it. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more effective than sugar soap.

Does it not also exclude some ingredient (phosphate?) that is bad for
paint?

On 12/06/2020 11:07, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing
soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit
refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty
woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want
to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get
away without using it. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more
effective than sugar soap.

The paint this post refers to will have fallen off by now. ;-)


If it was water-based gloss or cheap 'emulsion' paint, sugar soap
removes it very quickly. Doesn't do your skin much good either.

On 12/06/2020 11:23, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get away without using it. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more effective than sugar soap.

Does it not also exclude some ingredient (phosphate?) that is bad for
paint?


Since the whole point of using it is to as part of the overall
preparation for repainting, that's not such an issue.

very effective at removing nicotine from painted surfaces.

Well, since I got it from eBay (2 kg) from a Chemical company I'm presuming it's true Na‚ƒPO‚„.
I've actually emailed them for the SDS to be sure. I'm presuming the phosphate will have a different effect than carbonate/s found in sugar soap but I guess only experience will tell.

Haha, no doubt.

That's good to know.

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 13:36:23 +0100, Andrew
wrote:

On 12/06/2020 11:23, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 20:35:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:42:52 UTC, Another John wrote:
I asked this before, but some time ago because my news server doesn't
have the thread. I've forgotten what people's comments were.

Sugar soap is sold as "the perfect preparation for painting ... simply
wash over the area to be painted .... no need to rinse ... provides a
key for the new paint..." etc etc.

Well every time I use it (including this evening), I can never detect
the slightest difference in the area being prepared. Sure, it's cleaner
(as indeed it would be if I'd washed it over with warm water) but I can
neither see nor feel a "key" for new paint. I'll be undercoating before
glossing, but I do wonder if I can miss out the sugar-soap bit in future.

Any comments folks?
Ta,
John

Yes, I've been familiar with it from a young age. It's primarily washing soda which is very alkaline and cuts through grease. The 'sugar' bit refers to the abrasive material added. You may want to wash dirty woodwork before you sand down. Perhaps walls are stained, which you want to clean as you don't want stains to bleed through. However, you can get away without using it. I've just bought some TSP. I wonder if it's more effective than sugar soap.

Does it not also exclude some ingredient (phosphate?) that is bad for
paint?


Since the whole point of using it is to as part of the overall
preparation for repainting, that's not such an issue.

Yes it is, if it avoids the need for lots of rinsing to remove the
remains of the detergent.

very effective at removing nicotine from painted surfaces.

My understanding is
sugar soaps, depending on brand, main ingredient is sodium phosphate.
TSP is Tri sodium phosphate and is used in labs to clean walls before painting.