I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill

In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.


it's not *The* Forth Bridge. it's the modern upstart th Forth Road Bridge.

--
Please note new email address:

On 04/12/2015 13:50, charles wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.


it's not *The* Forth Bridge. it's the modern upstart th Forth Road Bridge.

No it's the First Forth Road Bridge.

Bill

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:12:52 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/12/2015 13:50, charles wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.


it's not *The* Forth Bridge. it's the modern upstart th Forth Road Bridge.

No it's the First Forth Road Bridge.

But it's the Second Forth Bridge.

East Fife Four Forfar Five

--
AnthonyL

Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill


Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

Tim

On 04/12/2015 14:37, Tim+ wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill


Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?

--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On 04/12/2015 14:47, Mark Carver wrote:
On 04/12/2015 14:37, Tim+ wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill


Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/


Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

Bill

On Friday, 4 December 2015 14:40:24 UTC, Tim wrote:
Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.
http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

Car body filler, innit.

Owain

I assume they will need to do a thorough assessment of the degree of
weakening - perhaps then they can allow reduced traffic - although I
believe that the traffic accounts for less than 10% of the weight of the
deck. A repair scheme will need to be developed and tested. Remedial work
will need to be planned and resourced. Access arrangments and training for
repair workers. I reckon at least a year.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 14:26:47 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 14:12:52 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/12/2015 13:50, charles wrote:
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.


it's not *The* Forth Bridge. it's the modern upstart th Forth Road Bridge.

No it's the First Forth Road Bridge.

But it's the Second Forth Bridge.

East Fife Four Forfar Five

The Firth of Forth Road Bridge

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 04/12/2015 14:37, Tim+ wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill


Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

Tim

Interesting to see so much detail. A different one to the problem which
has required so many repairs to the box-girder deck of the Severn and M5
Avon bridges, which (I believe) was cracking in welds, progressing by
fatigue.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 08:07:08 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Friday, 4 December 2015 14:40:24 UTC, Tim wrote:
Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.
http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

Car body filler, innit.

Owain


You are TNP AICMFP.

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 04/12/2015 16:18, DerbyBorn wrote:





I assume they will need to do a thorough assessment of the degree of
weakening - perhaps then they can allow reduced traffic - although I
believe that the traffic accounts for less than 10% of the weight of the
deck. A repair scheme will need to be developed and tested. Remedial work
will need to be planned and resourced. Access arrangments and training for
repair workers. I reckon at least a year.

In that case there's no point in doing anything - 'cos it's due to be
replaced before then. Just keep it closed and speed up the construction
of the new one.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 16:24:27 +0000, newshound wrote:

Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.


http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...-closed-until-
new-year/

Interesting to see so much detail.

Site relating to the bridge directly not a media site...

Looking at the drawing it looks like the entire truss end is hung
from four links. The end of one appears to be fully broken in the
photo, the top section is displaced to the left relative to the
bottom bit. No wonder they are worried...

Just replace the link and make sure that the bearings top and bottom
aren't siezed.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Actually, though I get the gist of your point, the news item I heard told me
that there have been strain gauges installed on some parts of the bridge for
over a decade now, monitoring the cracks, so its not new at all. I suppose
they must have recently widened. The metalwork is now old and presumably
nobody really wanted to spend the megabucks to try to fix it and so they
hoped it would not affect structurally important areas any time soon.

Now they will have either to fix the important problems or at least do a
manual inspection to see what is to be done.
Nothing lasts for ever.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers. One
person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you might
have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the USSR for
weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they should
have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I think she
might be right.

Bill

On 04/12/2015 17:39, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Actually, though I get the gist of your point, the news item I heard told me
that there have been strain gauges installed on some parts of the bridge for
over a decade now, monitoring the cracks, so its not new at all. I suppose
they must have recently widened.

I thought it was the strands that were breaking in the suspension
cables, and there were transducers fitted to record when another one
snaps and goes 'ping' ?

This/these new crack/s is a different kettle of fish ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Yes and its really under tremendous stresses, and the word 'new' in this
context is rather misleading, as everything is relative.
The old railway bridge has got issues too, but its built far more
conservatively and can take it.
I do often wonder about more modern bridgees and exactly how long they
might be expected to last. The old Severn Bridge has had to have significant
work done to it to keep it safe after all.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
Remember, if you don't like where I post
or what I say, you don't have to
read my posts! :-)
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.


it's not *The* Forth Bridge. it's the modern upstart th Forth Road
Bridge.

--
Please note new email address:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 15:40:05 +0000, Bill Wright
wrote:

On 04/12/2015 14:47, Mark Carver wrote:
On 04/12/2015 14:37, Tim+ wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill


Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/


Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

It looks like a job for No More Nails.

--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

In article ,
Brian-Gaff wrote:
I do often wonder about more modern bridgees and exactly how long they
might be expected to last. The old Severn Bridge has had to have
significant work done to it to keep it safe after all.

Very true. I went on a school trip to see the Forth Road bridge being
built. Seems odd it has had such a short life.

--
*7up is good for you, signed snow white*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/12/2015 18:16, Peter Duncanson wrote:

Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/


Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

It looks like a job for No More Nails.


Which reminds me, whatever happened to Marky P ?


--
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

En el artículo , Bill Wright
escribió:

I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

It's not that, individual strands of cable are snapping in the main
stays (the horizontal runs that span the bridge). Because snapped
strands are hard to detect, they can't tell how many have gone.

The problem is caused by the Scottish weather - the cables are corroding
and snapping on the inside. Eventually, you're going to have the outer
(painted, protected) cable with a rotten core.

There's supposedly a proposal in place to blow low-humidity air into the
gaps in the cable to reduce the speed of corrosion but I haven't been
able to find out more. I have a feeling it's too late to save the
bridge now.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Bill Wright
escribió:

I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

It's not that, individual strands of cable are snapping in the main
stays (the horizontal runs that span the bridge). Because snapped
strands are hard to detect, they can't tell how many have gone.

The problem is caused by the Scottish weather - the cables are corroding
and snapping on the inside. Eventually, you're going to have the outer
(painted, protected) cable with a rotten core.

There's supposedly a proposal in place to blow low-humidity air into the
gaps in the cable to reduce the speed of corrosion but I haven't been
able to find out more. I have a feeling it's too late to save the
bridge now.


A proposal? It's been going for years.

Tim

En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

A proposal? It's been going for years.

Hasn't worked, has it? Seems a bit Heath Robinson to me.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On 04/12/2015 13:42, Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill

Have long thought that half the answer to this type of problem is half a
bridge.

Imagine, having built the FRB with N and S decks, a modest number of
years later you had built HALF its replacement. You than could have
three decks available - in any combination of being in use in either
direction or in maintenance.

Then you build another replacement... and are ready to let the original
get demolished (or fundamentally rebuilt in situ).

--
Rod

On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:19:14 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
On 04/12/2015 16:18, DerbyBorn wrote:





I assume they will need to do a thorough assessment of the degree of
weakening - perhaps then they can allow reduced traffic - although I
believe that the traffic accounts for less than 10% of the weight of the
deck. A repair scheme will need to be developed and tested. Remedial work
will need to be planned and resourced. Access arrangments and training for
repair workers. I reckon at least a year.

In that case there's no point in doing anything - 'cos it's due to be
replaced before then. Just keep it closed and speed up the construction
of the new one.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

No doubt one of the issues is that FRB uses the 2nd best location to cross the firth. So a new bridge would have to use the third best site.

If this link can fail so could the others in the mirror image places.
I also imagine that part of the issue is that this link is doing something useful in the structure, at least some of the time. Therefore during its replacement some significant temporary structure will have to be added beforehand. This must be a nightmare repair scenario only a collapse would be worse.

On 04/12/2015 19:54, polygonum wrote:

Have long thought that half the answer to this type of problem is half a
bridge.

Imagine, having built the FRB with N and S decks, a modest number of
years later you had built HALF its replacement. You than could have
three decks available - in any combination of being in use in either
direction or in maintenance.

Then you build another replacement... and are ready to let the original
get demolished (or fundamentally rebuilt in situ).

Something like this:
http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/i...ension_Bridges

There is one in Scotland to copy - The Bridge of Oich.

Jim

On 04/12/2015 17:42, Mark Carver wrote:
On 04/12/2015 17:39, Brian-Gaff wrote:
Actually, though I get the gist of your point, the news item I heard
told me
that there have been strain gauges installed on some parts of the
bridge for
over a decade now, monitoring the cracks, so its not new at all. I
suppose
they must have recently widened.

I thought it was the strands that were breaking in the suspension
cables, and there were transducers fitted to record when another one
snaps and goes 'ping' ?

This/these new crack/s is a different kettle of fish ?


Completely different, see Tim's link

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 19:59:39 +0000, wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:16:01 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:



http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/


Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

It looks like a job for No More Nails.

Surely one of you former electronic wizards with a shed full of old
bits has a Bridge Rectifier that they can send up there.

A cunning plan!


--
Peter Duncanson
(in uk.tech.digital-tv)

On 04/12/2015 19:59, wrote:
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:16:01 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:



http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/


Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

It looks like a job for No More Nails.

Surely one of you former electronic wizards with a shed full of old
bits has a Bridge Rectifier that they can send up there.

Very good :-)

In message ,
writes
On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:16:01 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:




http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...closed-until-n



Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

It looks like a job for No More Nails.

Surely one of you former electronic wizards with a shed full of old
bits has a Bridge Rectifier that they can send up there.

G.Harman

Brilliant!
--
Ian

On 04/12/2015 18:31, Mark Carver wrote:

It looks like a job for No More Nails.


Which reminds me, whatever happened to Marky P ?



I thought you knew. He had a perforated appendix so he swallowed a tube
of No More Nails.

Bill

On 04/12/2015 19:16, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
There's supposedly a proposal in place to blow low-humidity air into the
gaps in the cable to reduce the speed of corrosion but I haven't been
able to find out more.

I am sure they did that about 3 years back.

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 19:59:39 +0000, wrote:

On Fri, 04 Dec 2015 18:16:01 +0000, Peter Duncanson
wrote:



http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/


Alright then, lash some cable ties round it too ?


Yeah, mebbe a bit of gaffer tape might come in useful as well...

It looks like a job for No More Nails.

Surely one of you former electronic wizards with a shed full of old
bits has a Bridge Rectifier that they can send up there.

But that would only allow one-way traffic.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim+
escribió:

A proposal? It's been going for years.

Hasn't worked, has it? Seems a bit Heath Robinson to me.


What have the cables got to do with the current problem? Nothing!

Tim

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 11:58:47 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Friday, December 4, 2015 at 5:19:14 PM UTC, Roger Mills wrote:
On 04/12/2015 16:18, DerbyBorn wrote:





I assume they will need to do a thorough assessment of the degree of
weakening - perhaps then they can allow reduced traffic - although I
believe that the traffic accounts for less than 10% of the weight of the
deck. A repair scheme will need to be developed and tested. Remedial work
will need to be planned and resourced. Access arrangments and training for
repair workers. I reckon at least a year.

In that case there's no point in doing anything - 'cos it's due to be
replaced before then. Just keep it closed and speed up the construction
of the new one.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

No doubt one of the issues is that FRB uses the 2nd best location to cross the firth. So a new bridge would have to use the third best site.

If it's a replacement, one would expect it to be built in the same
place.

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

En el artículo ,
escribió:

If this link can fail so could the others in the mirror image places.

There's eight of them, two at each corner close to the towers. They
basically hold the lower deck up, hence the panic.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

En el artículo , Tim+
escribió:

What have the cables got to do with the current problem? Nothing!

Jesus.

Everything. It's a 50 year old bridge which has carried far beyond its
designed amount of traffic for many years and now is showing signs of
its age and workload. In other words, it's almost worn out.

Ever heard of context?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

En el artículo , ss
escribió:

I am sure they did that about 3 years back.

Thanks, I'll have to google some more.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Bunny says: Windows 10? Nein danke!
(")_(")

On 04/12/15 14:37, Tim+ wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
I think they're over reacting! Just because of a few cracks in the
metalwork they've closed the bridge.

I sometimes look at a newsgroup populated mostly by Russian engineers.
One person, a senior female engineer called Slapabitta Ameritonit (you
might have heard of her because in a previous life she represented the
USSR for weight lifting in the 1964 Los Angeles Olympics) said that they
should have just slapped a bit of Hammerite on it and walked away. I
think she might be right.

Bill


Hmm, might need a few coats of Hammerite to fill this crack.

http://www.forthroadbridge.org/news/...ntil-new-year/

Tim


Sir John Fowler and Sir Benjamin Baker must be laughing their ghostly
ends off

Even Ironbridge isn't doing too badly, considering it dates from 1779.

On 04/12/15 16:18, DerbyBorn wrote:





I assume they will need to do a thorough assessment of the degree of
weakening - perhaps then they can allow reduced traffic - although I
believe that the traffic accounts for less than 10% of the weight of the
deck.

But a lot more in terms of dynamic loading.