My TV only has a toslink audio output. To feed an external Hi-Fi. Or
rather it does also have a headphone socket, but the quality from that
isn't Hi-Fi.

I already had a 'universal' D to A converter lying around which I've been
using but it has several minus points - it's a not new 'pro' unit.

It is large.
Comes up on the wrong input when powered up which has to be selected
manually - or left on.
The PS induces hum on other things, so it can't be positioned where I'd
like it.

There are lots on Ebay - all at a pretty low price and look much the same
as each other, so I bought one. Quoted spec is minimal.

It works ok except that the analogue output is low. Compared to everything
else feeding the power amp. The TV does have a preset in software for the
output level and it's now on max.

Been looking through the ones on Ebay, and none seem to quote the actual
output. They are all also too small to add an amp inside easily - even if
there was room.

Ideally, I'd like one with adjustable output level.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/10/2015 13:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
My TV only has a toslink audio output. To feed an external Hi-Fi. Or
rather it does also have a headphone socket, but the quality from that
isn't Hi-Fi.

I already had a 'universal' D to A converter lying around which I've been
using but it has several minus points - it's a not new 'pro' unit.

It is large.
Comes up on the wrong input when powered up which has to be selected
manually - or left on.
The PS induces hum on other things, so it can't be positioned where I'd
like it.

There are lots on Ebay - all at a pretty low price and look much the same
as each other, so I bought one. Quoted spec is minimal.

It works ok except that the analogue output is low. Compared to everything
else feeding the power amp. The TV does have a preset in software for the
output level and it's now on max.

Been looking through the ones on Ebay, and none seem to quote the actual
output. They are all also too small to add an amp inside easily - even if
there was room.

Ideally, I'd like one with adjustable output level.


I find the output level quite low anyway if I link the Toslink output of
my TV straight to the Toslink on the amp - maybe it's intentional.

I did try one of the cheap converters, basically a Toslink reciever and
a cmos chip, not much scope to do much there.

Using ARC over hdmi cures all the problems anyway, so that's the
connection of choice here now

In article ,
Lee wrote:
On 25/10/2015 13:49, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
My TV only has a toslink audio output. To feed an external Hi-Fi. Or
rather it does also have a headphone socket, but the quality from that
isn't Hi-Fi.

I already had a 'universal' D to A converter lying around which I've
been using but it has several minus points - it's a not new 'pro' unit.

It is large. Comes up on the wrong input when powered up which has to
be selected manually - or left on. The PS induces hum on other things,
so it can't be positioned where I'd like it.

There are lots on Ebay - all at a pretty low price and look much the
same as each other, so I bought one. Quoted spec is minimal.

It works ok except that the analogue output is low. Compared to
everything else feeding the power amp. The TV does have a preset in
software for the output level and it's now on max.

Been looking through the ones on Ebay, and none seem to quote the
actual output. They are all also too small to add an amp inside easily
- even if there was room.

Ideally, I'd like one with adjustable output level.


I find the output level quite low anyway if I link the Toslink output of
my TV straight to the Toslink on the amp - maybe it's intentional.

The older unit is fine.

I did try one of the cheap converters, basically a Toslink reciever and
a cmos chip, not much scope to do much there.

Using ARC over hdmi cures all the problems anyway, so that's the
connection of choice here now

If toslink to toslink was low, there's no reason to assume HDMI to HDMI is
going to be any better.

--
*Born free - taxed to death *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 13:49:11 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I already had a 'universal' D to A converter lying around which I've
been using but it has several minus points - it's a not new 'pro' unit..

There are lots on Ebay ...

It works ok except that the analogue output is low. Compared to
everything else feeding the power amp. The TV does have a preset in
software for the output level and it's now on max.

"Pro" 0 dBu v "domestic", -10 dBu, line levels?

Assuming 0 dBu = -18 dBFS.

0 dBFS "Pro" RMS 6.1 V, peak to peak of 17.4 V.
0 dBFS "Domestic" RMS 1.9 V, peak to peak 5.5 V.

What are the power rail(s) of the cheapy convertor? You can do
"Domestic" with a single rail PP3. "Pro" levels are right on the edge
with two PP3's as a +/- 9 V supply.

Ideally, I'd like one with adjustable output level.

Maplin have a kit for a stereo amp board. £5.99, adjustable output
levels. I have one to level raise the analogue out of the telly to
"Pro" levels to feed a stereo PPM. This power rail issue bit me when
just fiddling and running the amp from a PP3, two series PP3s is
better but it still clips.

Currently waiting for a 5 V to +/- 15 V DC-DC convertor to arrive.
The PPM wants +/- 9 to 18 V. The amp kit is single rail up to 25 V on
the kits spec sheet but the chip (NE5532) spec has a typical supply
of +/- 15 V.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 13:49:11 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I already had a 'universal' D to A converter lying around which I've
been using but it has several minus points - it's a not new 'pro' unit.

There are lots on Ebay ...

It works ok except that the analogue output is low. Compared to
everything else feeding the power amp. The TV does have a preset in
software for the output level and it's now on max.

"Pro" 0 dBu v "domestic", -10 dBu, line levels?

The pro convertor I hsve has both balanced and unbalanced outputs.

Assuming 0 dBu = -18 dBFS.

0 dBFS "Pro" RMS 6.1 V, peak to peak of 17.4 V.
0 dBFS "Domestic" RMS 1.9 V, peak to peak 5.5 V.

What are the power rail(s) of the cheapy convertor? You can do
"Domestic" with a single rail PP3. "Pro" levels are right on the edge
with two PP3's as a +/- 9 V supply.

It uses a 5v supply. And I did wonder if this was why the output was low.
I'd always assumed you needed at least 12v for domestic line level -
unless you do clever things.

Ideally, I'd like one with adjustable output level.

Maplin have a kit for a stereo amp board. £5.99, adjustable output
levels. I have one to level raise the analogue out of the telly to
"Pro" levels to feed a stereo PPM. This power rail issue bit me when
just fiddling and running the amp from a PP3, two series PP3s is
better but it still clips.

Yes - I could just add an amp. The idea was to make things on the Hi-Fi
unit as neat as possible, as it's glass and you can see everything. ;-)

Currently waiting for a 5 V to +/- 15 V DC-DC convertor to arrive.
The PPM wants +/- 9 to 18 V. The amp kit is single rail up to 25 V on
the kits spec sheet but the chip (NE5532) spec has a typical supply
of +/- 15 V.

I've got an (old) circuit for a PPM driver that uses a single 24v supply.
It's probably not to the very best PPM spec, but adequate for most things.
The sort of thing you'd find on many devices with a PPM other than a full
BBC spec studio sound desk.

--
*Geeks shall inherit the earth *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 11:21:03 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

0 dBFS "Domestic" RMS 1.9 V, peak to peak 5.5 V.

What are the power rail(s) of the cheapy convertor? You can do
"Domestic" with a single rail PP3. "Pro" levels are right on the
edge
with two PP3's as a +/- 9 V supply.

It uses a 5v supply. And I did wonder if this was why the output was
low. I'd always assumed you needed at least 12v for domestic line level
unless you do clever things.

5 V can't do 0 dBFS at domestic levels... at least if I've got the
maths right. 9 V ought to be safe for domestic line level.

Yes - I could just add an amp. The idea was to make things on the Hi-Fi
unit as neat as possible, as it's glass and you can see everything. ;-)

The maplin thingy is very small, 35 x 49 x 15 mm. That includes
fixing holes in each corner and about 7 mm each end for the
connections, the actual important bit of board could be cut down to
35 mm square. Connections made to component lands.

Currently waiting for a 5 V to +/- 15 V DC-DC convertor to arrive.
The PPM wants +/- 9 to 18 V. The amp kit is single rail up to 25 V
on
the kits spec sheet but the chip (NE5532) spec has a typical
supply
of +/- 15 V.

I've got an (old) circuit for a PPM driver that uses a single 24v
supply. It's probably not to the very best PPM spec, but adequate for
most things. The sort of thing you'd find on many devices with a PPM
other than a full BBC spec studio sound desk.

This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
I've got an (old) circuit for a PPM driver that uses a single 24v
supply. It's probably not to the very best PPM spec, but adequate for
most things. The sort of thing you'd find on many devices with a PPM
other than a full BBC spec studio sound desk.

This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Crikey. Those stereo meter movements cost a fortune new. ;-)

--
*The more I learn about women, the more I love my car

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread. Got a
bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current seems right
here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.

--
*My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:

This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread. Got a
bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current seems right
here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.


What's a PPM?

In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-10-27, Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:

This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread. Got a
bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current seems right
here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.


What's a PPM?

Peak Programme Meter, I imagine.

Peak Power Meter I thought

--
Chris French

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:

This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread.
Got a bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current
seems right here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the
light on the shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.


What's a PPM?

It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak of
any signal rather than a sort of average like a VU meter. Used for many
many years by UK broadcast companies to monitor audio levels. Now being
replaced by some fancy software based device which is oh so much more easy
to use that even an unskilled work experience type understands it.

That's why you never now get commercials/trails which are too loud, or
variations of levels between different programmes, as before. It's all
perfect. Or that's what the suits say.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleIbSdnaOz4_5H7LLLnZ2dnUU78amdnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:


This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)


Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread.
Got a bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current
seems right here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the
light on the shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.



What's a PPM?

It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak of
any signal rather than a sort of average like a VU meter. Used for many
many years by UK broadcast companies to monitor audio levels. Now being
replaced by some fancy software based device which is oh so much more easy
to use that even an unskilled work experience type understands it.

That's why you never now get commercials/trails which are too loud, or
variations of levels between different programmes, as before. It's all
perfect. Or that's what the suits say.


Thanks. How I wish it were true about volume levels between
channels and programs. Having designed voice operated gain activating
devices (VOGADS) in the past, I am not convinced that any of them work
satisfactorily in the real world. You can do a better job digitally now
using memory time shift, but it is almost impossible to prevent distortion.

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak
of any signal rather than a sort of average like a VU meter. Used for
many many years by UK broadcast companies to monitor audio levels. Now
being replaced by some fancy software based device which is oh so much
more easy to use that even an unskilled work experience type
understands it.

That's why you never now get commercials/trails which are too loud, or
variations of levels between different programmes, as before. It's all
perfect. Or that's what the suits say.


Thanks. How I wish it were true about volume levels between
channels and programs. Having designed voice operated gain activating
devices (VOGADS) in the past, I am not convinced that any of them work
satisfactorily in the real world. You can do a better job digitally now
using memory time shift, but it is almost impossible to prevent
distortion.

The only easy way to balance sound levels is by using a trained human
being.

However, this never really has been economical to do across the entire
output of a channel or station. Then or now.

But the suits decided it was all down to not having a device which
measured 'loudness' correctly, so have spent millions on equipping with
one which is said to.

Snag is, of course, it still needs action to implement what it reads and
adjust accordingly. Not something they are interested in paying for.

--
*Procrastinate now

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/10/15 13:07, Chris French wrote:
In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-10-27, Capitol wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:

This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread.
Got a
bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current seems
right
here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.


What's a PPM?

Peak Programme Meter, I imagine.

Peak Power Meter I thought

No, I think it was programme - anyway VU meters ;-)


--
Global warming is the new Margaret Thatcher. There is no ill in the
world it's not directly responsible for.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
No, I think it was programme - anyway VU meters ;-)

And you claim to know about electronics. ;-)

--
*I wish the buck stopped here. I could use a few.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:42:06 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination,

It hasn't. IIRC that used to be a 5 W festoon bulb mounted above the
movement shining through the window on the top.

9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a
near perfectly even spread. Got a bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of
quid.

Ahead of you, four 3 mm 36 degree clear white LEDs will be mounted
above somehow. I was thinking of drilled block but vero and a few mm
of lead length allows them to be tweaked directionally.

10 mA drive current seems right here.

Bit greedy, the LEDs I intend to use are taking 1.32 mA on the bread
board, they are just at the "too bright to look at"
level.

http://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/mcl...6-pure-white/d
p/SC11539

They glow slighly with leakage currents through dry fingers...

Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.

Have to be sort of towards the back of the illumination window as
there as a flag along the top of the PPM window. A case of AOT for
both position and brightness.

And yes the movements cost several hundred quid a couple of decades
ago.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 13:25:54 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

What's a PPM?

It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak ...

Tut, tut, Dave you should know better. A PPM is quasi peak, it has a
10 ms rise time IIRC. The relatively slow rise time is why you don't
peak harpsichords above PPM 4, the short sharp pluck of each note
isn't properly registered by a PPM. A true peak reading meter will
register all the pluck.

That's why you never now get commercials/trails which are too loud, or
variations of levels between different programmes, as before.

It's a lot better now than it was a couple of years ago. How much of
that is down to R128 (Loudness metering) or not I don't know.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
That's why you never now get commercials/trails which are too loud, or
variations of levels between different programmes, as before.

It's a lot better now than it was a couple of years ago. How much of
that is down to R128 (Loudness metering) or not I don't know.

It's better on ITV 1 as regards commercials, but many of the minority
channels a bad joke.

My guess is everything is simply transferred into the server exactly as is
from the play in device.

--
*I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak ...

Tut, tut, Dave you should know better. A PPM is quasi peak, it has a
10 ms rise time IIRC.

No mechanical movement can possibly show a true peak.

The relatively slow rise time is why you don't
peak harpsichords above PPM 4, the short sharp pluck of each note
isn't properly registered by a PPM. A true peak reading meter will
register all the pluck.

Luckily, harpsichords don't feature much in TV these days. ;-)

But that's the beauty of a PPM. It gives a good indication of both peak
level and average - if you know how to read it.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread. Got a
bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current seems right
here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.


Done just that on some Audix desks we're recently refurbished and very
clear they are with white LEDS too!.
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Capitol
scribeth thus
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In articleIbSdnaOz4_5H7LLLnZ2dnUU78amdnZ2d@brightvie w.co.uk,
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In whill.co.uk,
Dave wrote:


This is a proper red/green twin needle movement and Alice 704 card,
"new old stock" on eBay for £30 ish delivered. DC-DC convertor
arrived earlier, about to start playing. B-)


Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination, 9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on
vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a near perfectly even spread.
Got a bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of quid. 10 mA drive current
seems right here. Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the
light on the shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.



What's a PPM?

It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak of
any signal rather than a sort of average like a VU meter. Used for many
many years by UK broadcast companies to monitor audio levels. Now being
replaced by some fancy software based device which is oh so much more easy
to use that even an unskilled work experience type understands it.

That's why you never now get commercials/trails which are too loud, or
variations of levels between different programmes, as before. It's all
perfect. Or that's what the suits say.


Thanks. How I wish it were true about volume levels between
channels and programs. Having designed voice operated gain activating
devices (VOGADS) in the past, I am not convinced that any of them work
satisfactorily in the real world. You can do a better job digitally now
using memory time shift, but it is almost impossible to prevent distortion.

What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all of the
cock ups along the way!.
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
It's a peak programme meter. Clever electronics so it shows the peak ...

Tut, tut, Dave you should know better. A PPM is quasi peak, it has a
10 ms rise time IIRC.

No mechanical movement can possibly show a true peak.

And most operators can't move faders in 10 ms either;!...

The relatively slow rise time is why you don't
peak harpsichords above PPM 4, the short sharp pluck of each note
isn't properly registered by a PPM. A true peak reading meter will
register all the pluck.

Luckily, harpsichords don't feature much in TV these days. ;-)

Yes nice instrument, been trying the get to learn how to play one
properly;!.


But that's the beauty of a PPM. It gives a good indication of both peak
level and average - if you know how to read it.


--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 11:42:06 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Oh - if it hasn't got any illumination,

It hasn't. IIRC that used to be a 5 W festoon bulb mounted above the
movement shining through the window on the top.

9 x 5mm diffused white LEDs on vero board spaced 3 holes apart gives a
near perfectly even spread. Got a bag of 50 off Ebay for a couple of
quid.

Ahead of you, four 3 mm 36 degree clear white LEDs will be mounted
above somehow. I was thinking of drilled block but vero and a few mm
of lead length allows them to be tweaked directionally.

10 mA drive current seems right here.

Bit greedy, the LEDs I intend to use are taking 1.32 mA on the bread
board, they are just at the "too bright to look at"
level.

http://cpc.farnell.com/multicomp/mcl...6-pure-white/d
p/SC11539

They glow slighly with leakage currents through dry fingers...

Site them towards the back of the PPM to reduce the light on the
shelf at the bottom of the PPM needle window.

Have to be sort of towards the back of the illumination window as
there as a flag along the top of the PPM window. A case of AOT for
both position and brightness.


If its a twin theres a very useful window,
along the top, we used the white strip light from Maplins looks reet
grand
And yes the movements cost several hundred quid a couple of decades
ago.

They still do you can get them new. Clearance now don't suppose anyone
puts them on new desks . Look very nice in operation the Stereo twin and
the sum and difference..

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/58...-74A-PPM-METER



--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all of the
cock ups along the way!.

Fine provided you don't mind a dynamic range of f all. So OK for pop. TV
is mainly speech. Do you really want is sounding like LBC?

--
*They told me I had type-A blood, but it was a Type-O.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all of the
cock ups along the way!.

Fine provided you don't mind a dynamic range of f all. So OK for pop.

Well in reality most all radio is listened to under "challenging"
conditions so audio processing is a need thats well, needed!. OK if its
classical concert off radio 3 in the evening where the 320 odd K net
feed is a very good source, but for most all other radio it does need
processing. However that can be badly done as well as good!....


TV
is mainly speech. Do you really want is sounding like LBC?


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all of
the cock ups along the way!.

Fine provided you don't mind a dynamic range of f all. So OK for pop.

Well in reality most all radio is listened to under "challenging"
conditions so audio processing is a need thats well, needed!.

Really? I listen to radio a lot but not under the sort of challenging
circumstances LBC (Talk Radio) seem to think needs compressing to within
an inch of its life. And pop music generally already has a limited dynamic
range.

Luckily, R4 doesn't go in for this anyway. ;-)

But we were talking TV sound. And I'd rather have to reach for the remote
on occasion than have it all stuffed through one of those processors set
to even everything out.

However, proper care in the balancing of levels between progs and
commercials would sort it out anyway. And pigs may fly.

OK if its
classical concert off radio 3 in the evening where the 320 odd K net
feed is a very good source, but for most all other radio it does need
processing. However that can be badly done as well as good!....

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:30 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or
Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all
of
the cock ups along the way!.

Fine provided you don't mind a dynamic range of f all. So OK for
pop.

... for most all other radio it does need processing. However that can
be badly done as well as good!....

Generally badly. Remember not long ago having an hour ot three to
kill in Manchester so I started listening to the cars FM radio. Bit
of a novelty to have a station on almost every channel (up here it's
just one transmitter of the nationals and two locals). Even found a
few that were playing stuff I'd like to listen to, so I'd listen for
a few minutes but they were all heavily processed, so all the
dynamics of tracks I knew had been removed and the "sound" was very
wearing,

Oh yes they were LOUD and grabbed your ears as you tuned up and down
the band, trouble is they continued to beat you about the ears to the
extent that I couldn't listen to a given station for more than five
minutes without getting aurally exhausted. Station execs shooting
themselves in the foot... I did find one station that wasn't
processed to buggery, and it was a delight and easy to listen to,
pity the content wasn't my thing.

Then of course there was the coverage of Precess Di's funeral carried
by every station in the land. After about 15 seconds of the minuets
silence the processors started to wind the gain in and make the
"silence" peak 6...

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all of
the cock ups along the way!.

Fine provided you don't mind a dynamic range of f all. So OK for pop.

Well in reality most all radio is listened to under "challenging"
conditions so audio processing is a need thats well, needed!.

Really? I listen to radio a lot but not under the sort of challenging
circumstances LBC (Talk Radio) seem to think needs compressing to within
an inch of its life. And pop music generally already has a limited dynamic
range.

You do Dave, a lot of others don't or can't...


Luckily, R4 doesn't go in for this anyway. ;-)


No just ****e poor rates on Dabble..

But we were talking TV sound. And I'd rather have to reach for the remote
on occasion than have it all stuffed through one of those processors set
to even everything out.

However, proper care in the balancing of levels between progs and
commercials would sort it out anyway. And pigs may fly.

Oh yes, TV sound a different kettle of mic's ;!....


OK if its
classical concert off radio 3 in the evening where the 320 odd K net
feed is a very good source, but for most all other radio it does need
processing. However that can be badly done as well as good!....


--
Tony Sayer

In article o.uk, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 10:39:30 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

What you do do for most radio stations is you put an Orban or
Ommnia
processor in line with the transmitter and it sorts out most all
of
the cock ups along the way!.

Fine provided you don't mind a dynamic range of f all. So OK for
pop.

... for most all other radio it does need processing. However that can
be badly done as well as good!....

Generally badly. Remember not long ago having an hour ot three to
kill in Manchester so I started listening to the cars FM radio. Bit
of a novelty to have a station on almost every channel (up here it's
just one transmitter of the nationals and two locals). Even found a
few that were playing stuff I'd like to listen to, so I'd listen for
a few minutes but they were all heavily processed, so all the
dynamics of tracks I knew had been removed and the "sound" was very
wearing,

Oh yes they were LOUD and grabbed your ears as you tuned up and down
the band, trouble is they continued to beat you about the ears to the
extent that I couldn't listen to a given station for more than five
minutes without getting aurally exhausted. Station execs shooting
themselves in the foot... I did find one station that wasn't
processed to buggery, and it was a delight and easy to listen to,
pity the content wasn't my thing.


Yes it can be done but all too rarely is...


Then of course there was the coverage of Precess Di's funeral carried
by every station in the land. After about 15 seconds of the minuets
silence the processors started to wind the gain in and make the
"silence" peak 6...



As they do on Nov the 11th;(.....


Sill we don't have actual silence anymore for that do we?...
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 19:07:31 +0000, tony sayer wrote:

Then of course there was the coverage of Precess Di's funeral
carried
by every station in the land. After about 15 seconds of the
minuets
silence the processors started to wind the gain in and make the
"silence" peak 6...

As they do on Nov the 11th;(.....

Do the automated pop playout stations observe the 11th Hour of the
11th Day of the 11th Month?

Sill we don't have actual silence anymore for that do we?...

It's the one I try to observe, others are just a "convience" and I
never really liked minute silences for some individuals passing. The
more recent trend of a minutes applause for such things I find much
more accpetable.

--
Cheers
Dave.