Hi all,

Do *all* the unions in the 10mm copper pipe between the domestic oil
storage tank and the boiler have to be compression type, or is it
permissible to use certain solder joints? I could really use a few solder
90' elbows for the sake of convenience with routing on the installation
I'm currently working on.

Ta, jules.

Compression is only permissible for regs aiui.

Jim K

On 11/09/15 20:42, JimK wrote:
Compression is only permissible for regs aiui.

Jim K


Whilst I do not know anything about oil regs, why is that? Solder joints
are reckoned to be equal or better than compression in most other uses.

/Tim Watts
On 11/09/15 20:42, JimK wrote:
Compression is only permissible for regs aiui.

Jim K


Whilst I do not know anything about oil regs, why is that? Solder joints
are reckoned to be equal or better than compression in most other uses. /Q

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more at risk of letting go?

Jim K

On 11/09/15 21:18, JimK wrote:
/Tim Watts
On 11/09/15 20:42, JimK wrote:
Compression is only permissible for regs aiui.

Jim K


Whilst I do not know anything about oil regs, why is that? Solder joints
are reckoned to be equal or better than compression in most other uses. /Q

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more at risk of letting go?

Jim K


Valid point and believable - but a little at odds with the gas regs that
prefer solder joints (in inaccessible locations).

On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:53:56 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more
at
risk of letting go?

Valid point and believable - but a little at odds with the gas regs that
prefer solder joints (in inaccessible locations).

Gas has far smaller molecules thus can get through smaller gaps that
may occur in a compression fitting. A slow gas leak into an enclosed
space could get to explosive concentrations given enough time.
Kerosene leaking into an enclosed space just makes it smelly and
oily...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/09/15 01:56, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 21:53:56 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more
at
risk of letting go?

Valid point and believable - but a little at odds with the gas regs that
prefer solder joints (in inaccessible locations).

Gas has far smaller molecules thus can get through smaller gaps that
may occur in a compression fitting. A slow gas leak into an enclosed
space could get to explosive concentrations given enough time.
Kerosene leaking into an enclosed space just makes it smelly and
oily...


That of course makes perfect sense - but not why solder joints are
(apparently) not permitted on oil lines, which makes less sense.

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 09:29:44 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more
at risk of letting go?

Valid point and believable - but a little at odds with the gas
regs
that prefer solder joints (in inaccessible locations).

Gas has far smaller molecules thus can get through smaller gaps
that
may occur in a compression fitting. A slow gas leak into an
enclosed
space could get to explosive concentrations given enough time.
Kerosene leaking into an enclosed space just makes it smelly and
oily...

That of course makes perfect sense - but not why solder joints are
(apparently) not permitted on oil lines, which makes less sense.

See first quoted section. If a fire gets the pipe hot enough for a
solder joint to let go or leak you are going to have maybe 2000l of
parrafin available to fuel the fire. If the joint fell apart rather
than just leak you have a 10 or 15 mm pipe that can deliver that
parrafin quite quickly and it'll spread across the floor, down
slopes, holes etc. And for the pipe to be hot enough for the solder
to melt the fire will be big enough to ignite that parrafin.

A proper installation has a fire valve in the feed *outside* the
building at the point of entry with the capillary sensor inside the
boiler casing. So if a fire does break out the oil feed is cut off.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 12/09/15 12:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 09:29:44 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more
at risk of letting go?

Valid point and believable - but a little at odds with the gas
regs
that prefer solder joints (in inaccessible locations).

Gas has far smaller molecules thus can get through smaller gaps
that
may occur in a compression fitting. A slow gas leak into an
enclosed
space could get to explosive concentrations given enough time.
Kerosene leaking into an enclosed space just makes it smelly and
oily...

That of course makes perfect sense - but not why solder joints are
(apparently) not permitted on oil lines, which makes less sense.

See first quoted section. If a fire gets the pipe hot enough for a
solder joint to let go or leak you are going to have maybe 2000l of
parrafin available to fuel the fire. If the joint fell apart rather
than just leak you have a 10 or 15 mm pipe that can deliver that
parrafin quite quickly and it'll spread across the floor, down
slopes, holes etc. And for the pipe to be hot enough for the solder
to melt the fire will be big enough to ignite that parrafin.

A proper installation has a fire valve in the feed *outside* the
building at the point of entry with the capillary sensor inside the
boiler casing. So if a fire does break out the oil feed is cut off.


Thank you - that is a very full explanation - I see now...

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 12:59:59 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

A proper installation has a fire valve in the feed *outside* the
building at the point of entry with the capillary sensor inside the
boiler casing. So if a fire does break out the oil feed is cut off.

Right.... So a 'proper installation' will have, between the tank and the
boiler, the following:-

only compression joints
supply line composed of white plastic coated 10mm copper piping
A fire valve
At least one replaceable in-line filter of some sort
A tiger loop
A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Is that the lot?

Julian Barnes wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 12:59:59 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

A proper installation has a fire valve in the feed *outside* the
building at the point of entry with the capillary sensor inside the
boiler casing. So if a fire does break out the oil feed is cut off.

Right.... So a 'proper installation' will have, between the tank and the
boiler, the following:-

only compression joints
supply line composed of white plastic coated 10mm copper piping
A fire valve
At least one replaceable in-line filter of some sort
A tiger loop
A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Is that the lot?

Water trap maybe? or is that assumed to be dealt with in positioning the
tank draw-off point?
I have had no experience with oil systems so just a suggestion.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
A proper installation has a fire valve in the feed *outside* the
building at the point of entry with the capillary sensor inside the
boiler casing. So if a fire does break out the oil feed is cut off.

Make sure the sensor of the cutoff valve isn't placed too close to the
source of normal heat in the boiler. When we first had our new boiler
fitted, it cut out unexpectedly and the fitter suggested the first thing to
check was the reset for the fire cutoff - which it was! Next time he was
passing (after it had cut out several more times, though I knew how to reset
it by then!) he moved the sensor tube further along the inside wall of the
boiler, further away from the radiant heat from the burner.

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:38:26 +0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes wrote:

only compression joints
supply line composed of white plastic coated 10mm copper piping

Yep.

A fire valve

Outside...

At least one replaceable in-line filter of some sort

Yes, personally I'd go for a glass bowl filter at the tank. This a)
coursely (fine wire mesh) filters the fuel b) acts as a water trap.
The last might not be important if there are *no* low points in the
pipe work outside. Any water will collect there and in the winter
freeze blocking the line. DAMHIKT. The coarse filter keeps dead flies
out of the line and blocking/jamming open the fire valve. DAMHIKT but
it's related to freezing.

A tiger loop

Probably not required, we haven't got one and don't have any problems
with bubbles/airlocks, even after a delivery has given the tank jolly
good aeration. Read the fuel level straight after delivery and a day
or or so later and the level will have dropped a cm or two...

Our tank outlet is *just* above the burner inlet so most of the time
there is a couple of foot head to bleed air out when the flexable
hose and/or paper filter are replaced. The wire mesh filter also
means the paper filter only has fine stuff to filter out, so doesn't
need replacing as often.

A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Yep, along with a push to read sight glass, if they are still allowed
on new installations.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:12:14 +0200, Bob Minchin wrote:

Water trap maybe? or is that assumed to be dealt with in positioning the
tank draw-off point?

Eventually the level of water in the bottom of the tank will reach
the draw-off point. I think that's what happened here with the
"professionally installed" system with no filter or trap at the tank.
Once the water level has reached the draw-off it flows out into the
pipework, collects at a low point freezes and blocks the line. The
lack of filter at the tank meant the line also had a fair amount of
kak in it. Clearing the line of disturbed the kak and it clogged the
fire valve. Great fun in 10" of snow. At least at that time the fire
valve was inside... But I was at it for 6+ hours and kerosene isn't
that benign when it comes into contact with your skin for an hour or
twos...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 13 Sep 2015 10:33:46 GMT, Huge wrote:

A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Yep, along with a push to read sight glass, if they are still
allowed
on new installations.

We were told not when we had our tank replaced a couple of years ago.

So how do you check the oil level? Or a delivery person check that
there is enough space in the tank for the quantity ordered? Unless
things have changed since Jan the delivery nozzle is a manual one
with a delivery rate of around 5 l/second (1 gallon/second), that'll
make a heck of mess rather quickly...

Electronic thingies are not that reliable in my experience or
particularly accurate and the read out isnt at the tank.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:19:24 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On 13 Sep 2015 10:33:46 GMT, Huge wrote:

A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Yep, along with a push to read sight glass, if they are still
allowed
on new installations.

We were told not when we had our tank replaced a couple of years ago.

So how do you check the oil level? Or a delivery person check that there
is enough space in the tank for the quantity ordered? Unless things have
changed since Jan the delivery nozzle is a manual one with a delivery
rate of around 5 l/second (1 gallon/second), that'll make a heck of mess
rather quickly...

Electronic thingies are not that reliable in my experience or
particularly accurate and the read out isnt at the tank.

Ours has a device called a Watchman which is supposed to automatically
phone up the fuel stockists when the level reaches a certain point. I
don't recall it ever working properly so I just use a dipstick.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-09-13, Julian Barnes wrote:

Ours has a device called a Watchman which is supposed to automatically
phone up the fuel stockists when the level reaches a certain point. I
don't recall it ever working properly so I just use a dipstick.

Ours too, and it works just fine. As well as a mechanical gauge.

Yes, we have a watchman, and it seems to work well. Sad chap that I am,
I note down every change, and have done for at least ten years. I
imagine I would notice if it gave false readings, as I always know when
I expect the reading to change.

We don't have a mechanical gauge, or any of the other gubbins discussed.
The pipe exits the tank to an on/off valve, then underground to the
house. There is nothing between the pipe and the boiler at the house
end.
--
Graeme

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:13:18 +0100, News wrote:

There is nothing between the pipe and the boiler at the house
end.

You want to get a coupling installed there pretty quick, then mate.
That's going to leak like crazy.

In message , Julian Barnes
writes
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:13:18 +0100, News wrote:

There is nothing between the pipe and the boiler at the house
end.

You want to get a coupling installed there pretty quick, then mate.
That's going to leak like crazy.

grin

--
Graeme

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 12:36:31 +0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes wrote:

Ours has a device called a Watchman which is supposed to automatically
phone up the fuel stockists when the level reaches a certain point.

How does it know the cheapest stockist to call?

Spread of phone quotes I got on the 9th Sept 38.60, 33.53, 33.95,
31.90 (ex VAT). Difference between cheapest and dearest on 2250 l
£158 (inc VAT)...

Onine sites gave 29.08 (but out of area), 32.15, 31.08, 30.26, 34.00.

We have a Watchman Alarm just in case we a get a visit. I read the
sight tube every week and plug that into a spreadsheet to get an idea
of consumption and project when we'll need more. Currently Mar 2017
but that will change in the next few months...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:13:18 +0100, News wrote:

Yes, we have a watchman, and it seems to work well. Sad chap that I am,
I note down every change, and have done for at least ten years. I
imagine I would notice if it gave false readings, as I always know when
I expect the reading to change.

No great seasonal variation? We go from 1 cm/week in the summer to
5 cm/week in winter. That's cm on the sight tube which equates to
about 25 l. Winter used to be over 6 cm/week before we got the wood
burner...

We don't have a mechanical gauge, or any of the other gubbins discussed.
The pipe exits the tank to an on/off valve, then underground to the
house.

So you have an U shaped line? Hum... not likely to freeze if it's
greater than a foot under ground but could fill with water and
restrict the oil flow. And no fire valve?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 19:58:46 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Spread of phone quotes I got on the 9th Sept 38.60, 33.53, 33.95, 31.90
(ex VAT). Difference between cheapest and dearest on 2250 l £158 (inc
VAT)...

Yes, it brings it home to you how much we get screwed over for fuel now
that crude is a quarter the price is was a couple of years ago, but the
retail price here has only come off about 15% or so. Robbin' *******s!

/Yes, it brings it home to you how much we get screwed over for fuel now
that crude is a quarter the price is was a couple of years ago, but the
retail price here has only come off about 15% or so. Robbin' *******s! /Q

Yet heating oil is now half the price of a couple of years ago...

Jim K

In message o.uk, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Sun, 13 Sep 2015 14:13:18 +0100, News wrote:

Yes, we have a watchman, and it seems to work well.

No great seasonal variation? We go from 1 cm/week in the summer to
5 cm/week in winter. That's cm on the sight tube which equates to
about 25 l.

Yes, huge seasonal variations. No sight glass, so I just use the
Watchman readings which run from F (full) to 0 (empty). Last F reading
was 16/06, followed by 9 21/06, 8 20/07, 7 02/08, 6 20/08 and 5 06/09. 4
will probably be this time next week.

We don't have a mechanical gauge, or any of the other gubbins discussed.
The pipe exits the tank to an on/off valve, then underground to the
house.

So you have an U shaped line? Hum... not likely to freeze if it's
greater than a foot under ground but could fill with water and
restrict the oil flow.

Yes, always a danger I suppose, living in Aberdeenshire, but it has
always been OK in the past, with plenty of ice and snow, and low
temperatures.

And no fire valve?

Confess I had to Google fire valve to see what one looked like. Good
news is yes, there is one, between the end of the copper pipe (from the
tank) and the flexible hose to the boiler.

--
Graeme

On Mon, 14 Sep 2015 07:31:13 +0100, News wrote:

So you have an U shaped line? Hum... not likely to freeze if it's
greater than a foot under ground but could fill with water and
restrict the oil flow.

Yes, always a danger I suppose, living in Aberdeenshire, but it has
always been OK in the past, with plenty of ice and snow, and low
temperatures.

Wether the line gets ice blocked or water restricts the oil depends
on how much water is in it. Without a water trap at the tank outlet
once the water level in the tank reaches that level the line will
slowly fill until one day... The water trap will probably also
include a coarse filter which will keep most of the crap out of the
line, which gets flushed down to the fire valve blocking it when you
have to remove the water. Hopefully that won't be with 10" of snow on
the ground and an ice day... I wasn't that lucky.

And no fire valve?

Confess I had to Google fire valve to see what one looked like. Good
news is yes, there is one, between the end of the copper pipe (from the
tank) and the flexible hose to the boiler.

It really ought to be outside where the line enters the building.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 13/09/2015 11:33, Huge wrote:
On 2015-09-12, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 13:38:26 +0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes wrote:

[19 lines snipped]

A tiger loop

Probably not required, we haven't got one and don't have any problems
with bubbles/airlocks,

+1

Depends whether your tank oil level is higher than the burner. Oil will
not flow uphill reliably. We have a Danish Heath-Robinson oil lifter
device (oil tanks there are typically installed underground). I would
*not* recommend it. Next time it will certainly be a Tiger loop.

[10 lines snipped]

A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Yep, along with a push to read sight glass, if they are still allowed
on new installations.

We were told not when we had our tank replaced a couple of years ago.

These days they tend to fit a Watchman and if you are daft enough a
contract for your local expensive oil supplier to fill it when it gets
low automagically but at a premium price.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes

These days they tend to fit a Watchman and if you are daft enough a
contract for your local expensive oil supplier to fill it when it gets
low automagically but at a premium price.

Yes, my oil is supplied via contract, so I suppose I must be daft.
Problem is, during periods of bad weather, those without a contract
cannot obtain oil for love nor money. I prefer to be warm and daft
rather than clever and cold.
--
Graeme, Aberdeenshire

On 15/09/2015 10:06, News wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes

These days they tend to fit a Watchman and if you are daft enough a
contract for your local expensive oil supplier to fill it when it gets
low automagically but at a premium price.

Yes, my oil is supplied via contract, so I suppose I must be daft.
Problem is, during periods of bad weather, those without a contract
cannot obtain oil for love nor money. I prefer to be warm and daft
rather than clever and cold.

Never had a problem. Local group clubs together to get a decent price.

United we stand and divided we fall. It might be convenient to have an
automagically filling fuel tank but you pay through the nose for it.

The only snag is our tank has a bad habit of running low during the long
Xmas break. However, the wood burner back boiler can also run the CH so
by running that harder the rate of oil consumption can be managed.

It has ended up running on vapour more than once...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 15/09/2015 10:06, News wrote:

Yes, my oil is supplied via contract, so I suppose I must be daft.
Problem is, during periods of bad weather, those without a contract
cannot obtain oil for love nor money. I prefer to be warm and daft
rather than clever and cold.

Never had a problem. Local group clubs together to get a decent price.

Yes, a local group has started here. I must investigate.

Most of the time, supply is not a problem. However, during a bad
winter, main roads can be blocked preventing deliveries, or at least
making deliveries extremely difficult. During the same period, demand
skyrockets, of course, and the suppliers really do struggle to supply
even their regular account customers. This is during periods when the
council employ every JCB they can find to shift the snow moved by the
ploughs. Snow is loaded onto trucks and dumped on local playing fields,
or anywhere space is available and accessible.

During one of those periods, I contacted other suppliers and was told by
some that they were not taking on any new customers, even account
customers, and others said yes, join the queue, minimum 30 day delay for
the first delivery. We can empty a full tank in that period.

We have an immersion heater, open fire, three bottled gas fires and
numerous electric heaters for emergencies :-)
--
Graeme

On 15/09/2015 10:52, News wrote:
In message , Martin Brown
writes
On 15/09/2015 10:06, News wrote:

Yes, my oil is supplied via contract, so I suppose I must be daft.
Problem is, during periods of bad weather, those without a contract
cannot obtain oil for love nor money. I prefer to be warm and daft
rather than clever and cold.

Never had a problem. Local group clubs together to get a decent price.

Yes, a local group has started here. I must investigate.

Most of the time, supply is not a problem. However, during a bad
winter, main roads can be blocked preventing deliveries, or at least
making deliveries extremely difficult. During the same period, demand
skyrockets, of course, and the suppliers really do struggle to supply
even their regular account customers. This is during periods when the
council employ every JCB they can find to shift the snow moved by the
ploughs. Snow is loaded onto trucks and dumped on local playing fields,
or anywhere space is available and accessible.

You may well have more severe weather than here in North Yorkshire. The
longest we have been cut off for is about a week in winter 2010-11 I
think. The main problem are spots where where deep drifts accumulate.

Usually they clear our narrow road within a couple of days since one of
the snow plough drivers lives on it!

During one of those periods, I contacted other suppliers and was told by
some that they were not taking on any new customers, even account
customers, and others said yes, join the queue, minimum 30 day delay for
the first delivery. We can empty a full tank in that period.

Maybe worth having a bigger tank then. Mine will last about four months
from full in winter and the whole of summer. I log monthly consumption.

I agree that it isn't a good idea to ring up wanting fuel in the middle
of a cold snap but then I try very hard not to be in that position.

We have an immersion heater, open fire, three bottled gas fires and
numerous electric heaters for emergencies :-)

No electric generator? We need that to keep the CH pump and boiler
running when the winter storms take out the electricity. Otherwise we
end up with lashings of very hot water and one heated room.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In message , Huge
writes
On 2015-09-15, News wrote:

Yes, my oil is supplied via contract, so I suppose I must be daft.
Problem is, during periods of bad weather, those without a contract
cannot obtain oil for love nor money.

Not IME.

Depends where you happen to be. Doubt the problem exists south of
Perth.
--
Graeme

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 12:26:43 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

Most of the time, supply is not a problem. However, during a bad
winter, main roads can be blocked preventing deliveries, or at
least
making deliveries extremely difficult.

Winters 9/10 10/11 some of the roads around here where closed for
weeks. But they do try and keep the road to
Brampton/A69/Carlisle/Newcastle open for emergency access, we only
have one fire engine and ambulance both on the retained basis. One
fire engine can't put out a house once it's well alight, needs two or
three... Ambulance could possibly keep you alive until the Great
North Air Ambulance could air lift you out. But that can't fly at
night or when it's blowing (which it does quite a bit in the winter).
Guess they could call an RAF S&R Sea King out, I think they can fly
at night and in far worse conditions.

This is during periods when the council employ every JCB they can
find
to shift the snow moved by the ploughs. Snow is loaded onto
trucks and
dumped on local playing fields, or anywhere space is available and

accessible.

Don't you have snow blowers? The one around here works wonders:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/5228772002
https://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/4266029154

You may well have more severe weather than here in North Yorkshire. The
longest we have been cut off for is about a week in winter 2010-11 I
think.

Cut off as in no road access at all even the ploughs are stuck
doesn't last long 24 hours tops. Might still need a 4x4 and winter
tyres though.

... minimum 30 day delay for the first delivery. We can empty a
full
tank in that period.

Maybe worth having a bigger tank then. Mine will last about four months
from full in winter and the whole of summer.

Must have a small tank was my thought as well. Ours is a nominal 2500
l and we buy 2000 l a time. That'll last a similar 3 or 4 months in
winter.

I agree that it isn't a good idea to ring up wanting fuel in the middle
of a cold snap but then I try very hard not to be in that position.

So do I it doesn't take much to track consumption, project for when
levels will be getting a low and watch the actual weather trend.
Worst comes to worst I have a couple of drums that I could take to
the local oil suppliers 4 miles away (walk and drag on sledge if
neccessary). That's assuming they have some dregs left in the bottom
of their storage...

We have an immersion heater, open fire, three bottled gas fires
and
numerous electric heaters for emergencies :-)

No electric generator? We need that to keep the CH pump and boiler
running when the winter storms take out the electricity. Otherwise we
end up with lashings of very hot water and one heated room.

Small genset is essential IMHO. When an ice storm took out the 11 kV
distribution in several places including snaped poles, we were off
supply for 36 hours plus. It wouldn't have been very comfortable
without being able to run the CH and it would have stayed
uncomfortable for several days afterwards as the 30 odd tonnes of
passive stone through the center of the house would have cooled down
significantly.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 11/09/2015 21:18, JimK wrote:
/Tim Watts
On 11/09/15 20:42, JimK wrote:
Compression is only permissible for regs aiui.

Jim K


Whilst I do not know anything about oil regs, why is that? Solder joints
are reckoned to be equal or better than compression in most other uses. /Q

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more at risk of letting go?

Jim K

I believe the oil can dissolve the solder. Though I did once install one
after a suggestion from a local installer.


--
Michael Chare

On 12/09/2015 14:38, Julian Barnes wrote:
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 12:59:59 +0100, Dave Liquorice wrote:

A proper installation has a fire valve in the feed *outside* the
building at the point of entry with the capillary sensor inside the
boiler casing. So if a fire does break out the oil feed is cut off.

Right.... So a 'proper installation' will have, between the tank and the
boiler, the following:-

only compression joints

You can have flared joints which I believe are preferable

supply line composed of white plastic coated 10mm copper piping

A fire valve

Which should be outside the property.

At least one replaceable in-line filter of some sort

A tiger loop

Only used on single pipe systems where the burner is above the bottom of
the oil tank (maybe by some margin).


A manual isolation valve (at the tank base)

Is that the lot?


Most (all) oil boiler installation manuals will tell you what has to be
done.


--
Michael Chare

"Michael Chare" wrote in message
...
On 11/09/2015 21:18, JimK wrote:
/Tim Watts
On 11/09/15 20:42, JimK wrote:
Compression is only permissible for regs aiui.

Jim K


Whilst I do not know anything about oil regs, why is that? Solder joints
are reckoned to be equal or better than compression in most other uses.
/Q

Presumably because in a fire solder joints are deemed to be more at risk
of letting go?

Also because if you needed to repair a solder joint in a pipe that was
already in use, you'd need to drain the oil out and clean the pipe
thoroughly to get rid of any traces of flammable oil before letting a
blowtorch anywhere near it.

/Also because if you needed to repair a solder joint in a pipe that was
already in use, you'd need to drain the oil out and clean the pipe
thoroughly to get rid of any traces of flammable oil before letting a
blowtorch anywhere near it. /Q

Possibly tho once isolated I expect a blowtorch would be a reliable way of drying off the oil before resoldering, as after all, kerosene only burns once vaporised and mixed with air and ignited...

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:15:39 -0700 (PDT), JimK wrote:

/Also because if you needed to repair a solder joint in a pipe
that was
already in use, you'd need to drain the oil out and clean the pipe

thoroughly to get rid of any traces of flammable oil before
letting a
blowtorch anywhere near it. /Q

Possibly tho once isolated I expect a blowtorch would be a reliable way
of drying off the oil before resoldering, as after all, kerosene only
burns once vaporised and mixed with air and ignited...

I was wondering about the adviseabilty or not of resoldering a joint
on an oil line. I don't think there would be enough to worry about
still on the sides of drained pipe, it'll vapourise and burn off PDQ
when the blow lamp gets close.

I was more concerned about heat being conducted down the pipe to were
the oil hasn't been drained and vaporising that. Wonkypedia has the
flash point between 37 and 65 C which isn't very hot...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 10:16:55 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

The only snag is our tank has a bad habit of running low during the long
Xmas break. However, the wood burner back boiler can also run the CH so
by running that harder the rate of oil consumption can be managed.

It has ended up running on vapour more than once...

I've been caught out myself so now I always keep 2 x 20 litres of oil as
a reserve just in case I run out during a busy spell. It's not a huge
amount, doesn't take up much space, but can be a bit of a lifesaver at
times!

I've just tried to find out the reason for regs for the white plastic
coated copper pipe (which costs a bomb) and there doesn't appear to be
any such requirement! The regs about the type of piping you can use are
actually quite relaxed and there is *no* requirement for plastic coating.

On 15/09/2015 17:57, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 12:26:43 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

Most of the time, supply is not a problem. However, during a bad
winter, main roads can be blocked preventing deliveries, or at
least
making deliveries extremely difficult.

Winters 9/10 10/11 some of the roads around here where closed for
weeks. But they do try and keep the road to
Brampton/A69/Carlisle/Newcastle open for emergency access, we only
have one fire engine and ambulance both on the retained basis. One
fire engine can't put out a house once it's well alight, needs two or
three... Ambulance could possibly keep you alive until the Great
North Air Ambulance could air lift you out. But that can't fly at
night or when it's blowing (which it does quite a bit in the winter).
Guess they could call an RAF S&R Sea King out, I think they can fly
at night and in far worse conditions.

I think you are more in the wilds than I am. We are about a mile off a
major trunk road but down a very narrow lane that doesn't really go
anywhere. Luckily a snow plough driver lives past us.

You may well have more severe weather than here in North Yorkshire. The
longest we have been cut off for is about a week in winter 2010-11 I
think.

Cut off as in no road access at all even the ploughs are stuck
doesn't last long 24 hours tops. Might still need a 4x4 and winter
tyres though.

We have been hard cut off for longer with occasional breakthroughs but
when the wind blows over fields of powder snow a new snow drift quickly
re-establishes in the stall zones even when it isn't snowing.

... minimum 30 day delay for the first delivery. We can empty a
full
tank in that period.

Maybe worth having a bigger tank then. Mine will last about four months
from full in winter and the whole of summer.

Must have a small tank was my thought as well. Ours is a nominal 2500
l and we buy 2000 l a time. That'll last a similar 3 or 4 months in
winter.

I agree that it isn't a good idea to ring up wanting fuel in the middle
of a cold snap but then I try very hard not to be in that position.

So do I it doesn't take much to track consumption, project for when
levels will be getting a low and watch the actual weather trend.

I'd say it was essential if you live in the wilds.

Worst comes to worst I have a couple of drums that I could take to
the local oil suppliers 4 miles away (walk and drag on sledge if
neccessary). That's assuming they have some dregs left in the bottom
of their storage...

I have three similar containers. Never needed to use them so far.

We have an immersion heater, open fire, three bottled gas fires
and
numerous electric heaters for emergencies :-)

No electric generator? We need that to keep the CH pump and boiler
running when the winter storms take out the electricity. Otherwise we
end up with lashings of very hot water and one heated room.

Small genset is essential IMHO. When an ice storm took out the 11 kV
distribution in several places including snaped poles, we were off
supply for 36 hours plus. It wouldn't have been very comfortable
without being able to run the CH and it would have stayed
uncomfortable for several days afterwards as the 30 odd tonnes of
passive stone through the center of the house would have cooled down
significantly.

They leave us until last if things go pear shaped all the engineers get
sent to Middlesbrough and Teesside to sort out the cities first rather
than the little rural villages of the North York moors and Dales.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown