Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg

On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg


It should work OK with any of those connection methods.

Which is best depends on any physical obstructions e.g joist or beams
that may be in the way of your cable runs and whether you have a fan
that is required to 'run on' for a period after after the light has been
switched off.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 20/08/2015 14:50, Ash Burton wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg



It should work OK with any of those connection methods.

Which is best depends on any physical obstructions e.g joist or beams
that may be in the way of your cable runs and whether you have a fan
that is required to 'run on' for a period after after the light has been
switched off.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I am glad you mentioned the run on timer as I didnt take that in to
account. That may explain something I couldnt understand. The wiring is
in a bathroom (ground floor) and I have taken out the hologens to
replace with LED, I came across a cable that is live 3-core + earth that
doesnt switch off at the light switch, currently there is no extractor
fan but where this cable is located it could have been its intention or
maybe had a fan at some stage, as I would need a live feed for a run on
timer fan should I use this cable solely for the fan?

On 20/08/2015 16:10, ss wrote:
On 20/08/2015 14:50, Ash Burton wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg




It should work OK with any of those connection methods.

Which is best depends on any physical obstructions e.g joist or beams
that may be in the way of your cable runs and whether you have a fan
that is required to 'run on' for a period after after the light has been
switched off.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I am glad you mentioned the run on timer as I didnt take that in to
account. That may explain something I couldnt understand. The wiring is
in a bathroom (ground floor) and I have taken out the hologens to
replace with LED, I came across a cable that is live 3-core + earth that
doesnt switch off at the light switch, currently there is no extractor
fan but where this cable is located it could have been its intention or
maybe had a fan at some stage, as I would need a live feed for a run on
timer fan should I use this cable solely for the fan?

Yes i think that would be best, although ideally you should identify
where that 3 core is fed from i.e which fuse or circuit breaker controls
it so you know if its off a power circuit (10A) or a lighting circuit
(6A), so as to know whether it is safe to wire the light onto the same
circuit.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 20/08/2015 16:33, Ash Burton wrote:
ideally you should identify where that 3 core is fed from i.e which fuse
or circuit breaker controls

Its off the ground floor lighting circuit.

On 20/08/2015 16:58, ss wrote:
On 20/08/2015 16:33, Ash Burton wrote:
ideally you should identify where that 3 core is fed from i.e which fuse
or circuit breaker controls

Its off the ground floor lighting circuit.

That should be OK then.

*Safety note* make sure you isolate the circuit and test that it is off
before you start any work.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On 20/08/2015 16:10, ss wrote:

I am glad you mentioned the run on timer as I didnt take that in to
account. That may explain something I couldnt understand. The wiring is
in a bathroom (ground floor) and I have taken out the hologens to
replace with LED, I came across a cable that is live 3-core + earth that
doesnt switch off at the light switch, currently there is no extractor
fan but where this cable is located it could have been its intention or
maybe had a fan at some stage, as I would need a live feed for a run on
timer fan should I use this cable solely for the fan?

Just to confirm was that THREE cores plus earth, i.e. red, yellow and
blue or brown, grey and black?

If it is and was originally used for a fan with run-on then I'd expect
the three cores to be permanent line, switched line and neutral. Having
found that one is permanent line then it would be worth checking to see
if one of the others is in fact switched and that the remaining one is
neutral in which case you could extend this cable and use it as the feed
for the fan.

Also note that if you want to wire the fan for run-on you need a three
pole isolator switch and not the two pole one shown in your diagram.

The isolator must be outside zones 0,1 and 2.

--
Mike Clarke

On 20/08/2015 18:12, Mike Clarke wrote:
Just to confirm was that THREE cores plus earth, i.e. red, yellow and
blue or brown, grey and black?

If it is and was originally used for a fan with run-on then I'd expect
the three cores to be permanent line, switched line and neutral. Having
found that one is permanent line then it would be worth checking to see
if one of the others is in fact switched and that the remaining one is
neutral in which case you could extend this cable and use it as the feed
for the fan.

Also note that if you want to wire the fan for run-on you need a three
pole isolator switch and not the two pole one shown in your diagram.

The isolator must be outside zones 0,1 and 2.

Zoning noted.

The wires are Blue, Red, Yellow + earth

On 20/08/2015 19:52, ss wrote:
The wires are Blue, Red, Yellow + earth

One of them is permanent live but does one of the others become live
when the light is switched on?

If the cable was once for a fan and had followed what I'd regard as
intuitive choice of colours I'd expect red to be permanent live, yellow
to be switched and blue to be neutral.

--
Mike Clarke

On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg

Does A actually contain a neutral?

Most light switches have a live and a switched live (with the blue wire
used as one of them). i.e. they are not the source of power to the lamps.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Loop-in_Wiring


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 21/08/2015 03:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg


Does A actually contain a neutral?

Most light switches have a live and a switched live (with the blue wire
used as one of them). i.e. they are not the source of power to the lamps.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Loop-in_Wiring



John, My intention was take out the 4 halogen lamps and when I find the
power feed for those halogens I would then just connect a ceiling rose
for some LEDs, I am currently working in the void via the halogen holes
in the ceiling plus a couple of other holes I had to make, I then
decided I need to get an extractor fan (bathroom)and at this point (on
paper) was quite happy with my intended wiring.
As was then pointed out to me if I install a run on (timer) extractor
then that changes things, something I hadnt taken account of.
I need to spend a bit more time checking out the original wiring based
on what I have read on here and if necessary more of the ceiling will
have to come down (I was only avoiding this due to possible asbestos
built late 80s)

On 21/08/2015 09:16, ss wrote:
On 21/08/2015 03:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg



Does A actually contain a neutral?

Most light switches have a live and a switched live (with the blue wire
used as one of them). i.e. they are not the source of power to the lamps.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Loop-in_Wiring




John, My intention was take out the 4 halogen lamps and when I find the
power feed for those halogens I would then just connect a ceiling rose
for some LEDs, I am currently working in the void via the halogen holes
in the ceiling plus a couple of other holes I had to make, I then
decided I need to get an extractor fan (bathroom)and at this point (on
paper) was quite happy with my intended wiring.
As was then pointed out to me if I install a run on (timer) extractor
then that changes things, something I hadnt taken account of.
I need to spend a bit more time checking out the original wiring based
on what I have read on here and if necessary more of the ceiling will
have to come down (I was only avoiding this due to possible asbestos
built late 80s)

In other countries it seems quite acceptable to clip wire to walls and
ceilings. Its not as if we generally hide central heating pipes.

In keeping with the UK tradition of hiding wiring, I might put cable in
a small box in a corner of a wall and ceiling.

Yes, you will need a switched live for the fan, and I believe a 3-pole
isolator as well. I'm not sure if that is mandatory?

On 21/08/2015 09:24, Fredxxx wrote:
On 21/08/2015 09:16, ss wrote:
On 21/08/2015 03:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then
feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg




Does A actually contain a neutral?

Most light switches have a live and a switched live (with the blue wire
used as one of them). i.e. they are not the source of power to the
lamps.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Loop-in_Wiring





John, My intention was take out the 4 halogen lamps and when I find the
power feed for those halogens I would then just connect a ceiling rose
for some LEDs, I am currently working in the void via the halogen holes
in the ceiling plus a couple of other holes I had to make, I then
decided I need to get an extractor fan (bathroom)and at this point (on
paper) was quite happy with my intended wiring.
As was then pointed out to me if I install a run on (timer) extractor
then that changes things, something I hadnt taken account of.
I need to spend a bit more time checking out the original wiring based
on what I have read on here and if necessary more of the ceiling will
have to come down (I was only avoiding this due to possible asbestos
built late 80s)

In other countries it seems quite acceptable to clip wire to walls and
ceilings. Its not as if we generally hide central heating pipes.

In keeping with the UK tradition of hiding wiring, I might put cable in
a small box in a corner of a wall and ceiling.

Yes, you will need a switched live for the fan, and I believe a 3-pole
isolator as well. I'm not sure if that is mandatory?

Sorry, unswitched (permanent) live as well as switched.

On 21/08/2015 09:29, Fredxxx wrote:
On 21/08/2015 09:24, Fredxxx wrote:
On 21/08/2015 09:16, ss wrote:
On 21/08/2015 03:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct
way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then
feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg

"If the cable was once for a fan and had followed what I'd regard as
intuitive choice of colours I'd expect red to be permanent live, yellow
to be switched and blue to be neutral. "

OK I untaped the wires and this is what I found, The red and yellow were
twisted together. blue seperately taped.
Using a non contact mains tester, Blue dead, red always live, and yellow
live only when light switched on.

On 21/08/2015 09:16, ss wrote:
On 21/08/2015 03:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg



Does A actually contain a neutral?

Most light switches have a live and a switched live (with the blue wire
used as one of them). i.e. they are not the source of power to the lamps.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Loop-in_Wiring




John, My intention was take out the 4 halogen lamps and when I find the
power feed for those halogens I would then just connect a ceiling rose
for some LEDs, I am currently working in the void via the halogen holes
in the ceiling plus a couple of other holes I had to make, I then
decided I need to get an extractor fan (bathroom)and at this point (on
paper) was quite happy with my intended wiring.
As was then pointed out to me if I install a run on (timer) extractor
then that changes things, something I hadnt taken account of.
I need to spend a bit more time checking out the original wiring based
on what I have read on here and if necessary more of the ceiling will
have to come down (I was only avoiding this due to possible asbestos
built late 80s)

The use of asbestos in building materials was upto '84 IIRC - so a late
80's build should be safe.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 22/08/2015 01:39, John Rumm wrote:
On 21/08/2015 09:16, ss wrote:
On 21/08/2015 03:31, John Rumm wrote:
On 20/08/2015 13:29, ss wrote:
Could someone have a quick look at the image and advise the correct way
to wire light switch/ceilinglight and extractor fan.

Assuming the components are correct, should I go from A to B to C to D
OR direct from A to B and direct from A to C to D

Do I need the MF junction box or can I wire direct to to B and then
feed
C and D from B

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...pspcjqnrcu.jpg




Does A actually contain a neutral?

Most light switches have a live and a switched live (with the blue wire
used as one of them). i.e. they are not the source of power to the
lamps.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...Loop-in_Wiring





John, My intention was take out the 4 halogen lamps and when I find the
power feed for those halogens I would then just connect a ceiling rose
for some LEDs, I am currently working in the void via the halogen holes
in the ceiling plus a couple of other holes I had to make, I then
decided I need to get an extractor fan (bathroom)and at this point (on
paper) was quite happy with my intended wiring.
As was then pointed out to me if I install a run on (timer) extractor
then that changes things, something I hadnt taken account of.
I need to spend a bit more time checking out the original wiring based
on what I have read on here and if necessary more of the ceiling will
have to come down (I was only avoiding this due to possible asbestos
built late 80s)

The use of asbestos in building materials was upto '84 IIRC - so a late
80's build should be safe.

1984 was the cut-off for some asbestos uses but I was told that asbestos
of some form was used up to 2000, when it was truly outlawed.

On industrial units the tenant/landlord is legally obliged to do a risk
assessment for asbestos in properties built prior to 2000.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/managing/whenbuilt.htm