Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf & safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

Julian Barnes wrote

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north
of J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton
as well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself.

I'm not convinced that an electric fence is the best way to do that.

The first thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence.
We used to knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office
relays in a make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and
relatively non-lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have
moved on ('elf & safety etc).

So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology?

Use one of the commercial electric fence systems, intended to control
cattle and horses etc. Wont be legal around your house tho.

One of the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and
a 555 timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times
a second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire.
How best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would
have to work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to
non-lethal levels?

Just limit the current. Trivially easy to do.

All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 18:02:34 +0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
wrote:

Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

Why not just buy a cattle fence from an agricultural suppliers such as
Scats/Mole Valley . Branches in Romsey and Wickham.


G.Harman

Nah, he needs a moat, a drawbridge and some piranhas for the moat.
I am remembering an Eric Sykes episode along the lines above, where he was
told that all the hazards he put in the way of burglars and would be
squatters were in themselves illegal. Cue rant about Englishman's home being
his castle.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 18:02:34 +0000 (UTC), Julian Barnes
wrote:

Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. And how best
to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

Why not just buy a cattle fence from an agricultural suppliers such as
Scats/Mole Valley . Branches in Romsey and Wickham.


G.Harman

On 02/08/15 19:02, Julian Barnes wrote:
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf & safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.


Buy a farmers electric fence generator box - it's not very DIY but it
will do the job and you will be assured that it will have been designed
not to kill anything (and should form a decent defence if plod complains).

It also hurts like billy-o so it should do the job!

This of course is fine if the intruders are naked and not wearing gloves or
footwear.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/08/15 19:02, Julian Barnes wrote:
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf & safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.


Buy a farmers electric fence generator box - it's not very DIY but it will
do the job and you will be assured that it will have been designed not to
kill anything (and should form a decent defence if plod complains).

It also hurts like billy-o so it should do the job!

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 08:40:16 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

This of course is fine if the intruders are naked and not wearing gloves
or footwear.
Brian

So you believe "footwear" prevents a person from earthing out?
Interesting....

Cursitor Doom Wrote in message:
On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 08:40:16 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

This of course is fine if the intruders are naked and not wearing gloves
or footwear.
Brian

So you believe "footwear" prevents a person from earthing out?
Interesting....


If the boots are genuinely, insulated and the feet are the sole
(sorry) return path, why not?
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 03/08/15 14:40, Graham. wrote:
Cursitor Doom Wrote in message:
On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 08:40:16 +0100, Brian-Gaff wrote:

This of course is fine if the intruders are naked and not wearing gloves
or footwear.
Brian

So you believe "footwear" prevents a person from earthing out?
Interesting....


If the boots are genuinely, insulated and the feet are the sole
(sorry) return path, why not?


It may have no effect if the pulse was high enough voltage and short
enough that the capacitance-in-free-space of the touchee was sufficient
to pass a decent current.

I have no idea what the voltage of an electric fence is - and I suspect
the required voltage of what I've just said will be a good deal higher -
but theoretically speaking...

[OT]

As the chunnel is not handling it's original function well, and as,
apparently, sea-side amusements and fair grounds are back in fashion and
fully hipster approved:

Would it be wrong to suggest a giant game of whack-a-mole be set up at
the tunnel mouth?

On 02/08/15 22:37, Huge wrote:
On 2015-08-02, Tim Watts wrote:
[OT]

As the chunnel is not handling it's original function well, and as,
apparently, sea-side amusements and fair grounds are back in fashion and
fully hipster approved:

Would it be wrong to suggest a giant game of whack-a-mole be set up at
the tunnel mouth?

My initial thought was to repurpose Boris's water cannon that he's been told
he can't use, and to load them with pig slurry. Lend them to the French.



On the same note:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33751619

"The Swedish justice and migration minister has accused David Cameron of
"playing politics" with the migrant crisis in Calais.
Morgan Johansson said scenes in Calais had resulted from France and the
UK not taking "responsibility" for accepting more asylum seekers."


People here know my politics - I have lots of friends and colleagues
from many nations, all legally here and paying more into the system than
some natives.


So in the light of that, lest there be no misunderstanding:

Christ. **** off Morgan. Who the hell do you think you are telling my
country we are somehow wrong for refusing illegal aliens.


I have no problem with having applications for asylum, but it needs to
be quick turnaround (few weeks), yay or nay, no appeals and applicant
confined whilst the decision is made then a process to settle the
successful and return the unsuccessful.

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 10:49:17 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/08/15 22:37, Huge wrote:


I have no problem with having applications for asylum, but it needs to
be quick turnaround (few weeks), yay or nay, no appeals and applicant
confined whilst the decision is made then a process to settle the
successful and return the unsuccessful.

Many destroy their documents so they can't be returned. Apparently the loos at Gatwick just before passport control are often blocked with identification documents.

Jonathan

On 03/08/15 12:44, Jonathan wrote:
On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 10:49:17 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/08/15 22:37, Huge wrote:


I have no problem with having applications for asylum, but it needs to
be quick turnaround (few weeks), yay or nay, no appeals and applicant
confined whilst the decision is made then a process to settle the
successful and return the unsuccessful.

Many destroy their documents so they can't be returned. Apparently the loos at Gatwick just before passport control are often blocked with identification documents.

Jonathan


The sensible solution would be for every point of entry and exit to scan
their passport and take some biometrics (finger prints, photo and
retinal scan) and put an end to this nonsense.

This need only apply to passport holders from a particular list of
countries.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 03/08/15 12:44, Jonathan wrote:
On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 10:49:17 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/08/15 22:37, Huge wrote:


I have no problem with having applications for asylum, but it needs to
be quick turnaround (few weeks), yay or nay, no appeals and applicant
confined whilst the decision is made then a process to settle the
successful and return the unsuccessful.

Many destroy their documents so they can't be returned. Apparently the
loos at Gatwick just before passport control are often blocked with
identification documents.

Jonathan


The sensible solution would be for every point of entry and exit to scan
their passport and take some biometrics (finger prints, photo and retinal
scan)

Not possible when they flush the documents
before there is any scan of the passport. And
you can't even have no loos before where the
passports are examined either because there
will inevitably be queues to have passports
scanned and they will just flush the passports
in the plane loos even if that was possible.

and put an end to this nonsense.

Not possible.

This need only apply to passport holders from a particular list of
countries.

But you don’t know which country they are coming
from when they have no passports to scan.

On 03/08/15 13:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Tim Watts
wrote:

On 03/08/15 12:44, Jonathan wrote:
On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 10:49:17 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/08/15 22:37, Huge wrote:


I have no problem with having applications for asylum, but it needs to
be quick turnaround (few weeks), yay or nay, no appeals and applicant
confined whilst the decision is made then a process to settle the
successful and return the unsuccessful.

Many destroy their documents so they can't be returned. Apparently
the loos
at Gatwick just before passport control are often blocked with
identification documents.

The sensible solution would be for every point of entry and exit to
scan their passport and take some biometrics (finger prints, photo and
retinal scan) and put an end to this nonsense.

This need only apply to passport holders from a particular list of
countries.

Hmm. Then it could be done when they enter a country that has support
for this procedure. That would include Italy and Greece. Then if they
are refused asylum, or behave illegally (includes trying to cross a
border illegally, as in getting on lorries etc in Calais) they can be
sent back to wherever they were before before entering. Which would
most likely be Libya.

So if they destroy their papers before getting on a boat to cross the
Med, it doesn't make any difference.


2nd option:

An EU funded "Refugee Island" somewhere in the middle of the sea.

It might still be considered a better bet for some real refugees, but
once word got around it should deter some of the **** taking economic
migrants.

On 8/2/2015 10:49 PM, Tim Watts wrote:

I have no problem with having applications for asylum, but it needs to
be quick turnaround (few weeks), yay or nay, no appeals and applicant
confined whilst the decision is made then a process to settle the
successful and return the unsuccessful.

Under EU and international law, you can only claim asylum in the first
"free" country that you reach having fled your own.

Hence if you are in France, you can't under any definition be a legal
asylum seeker in the UK unless you are native of France and seeking to
escape from there!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/08/2015 13:01, John Rumm wrote:


Under EU and international law, you can only claim asylum in the first
"free" country that you reach having fled your own.

Hence if you are in France, you can't under any definition be a legal
asylum seeker in the UK unless you are native of France and seeking to
escape from there!


Indeed. And rather begs the question as to how they got to France.
Chances are that they first landed in Greece or Italy - so that's where
they should be claiming asylum.

Trouble is that once inside the Schengen area, they can go where they
like with no checks. The first thing for the EU to do should be to
suspend the Schengen agreement and bring back border control!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 14:16:04 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:

Trouble is that once inside the Schengen area, they can go where they
like with no checks. The first thing for the EU to do should be to
suspend the Schengen agreement and bring back border control!

We all know that's not going to happen. There are forces at work over
which we have no control (and precious little awareness) that are working
flat out to flood europe with non-europeans.

On 03/08/2015 13:11, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , John
Rumm wrote:

On 8/2/2015 10:49 PM, Tim Watts wrote:

Did he really, John? Is your date/time fixable?

The date and time were right, but in US format just to confuse you ;-)

(was required to workaround a bug in something I was using)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/08/2015 19:02, Julian Barnes wrote:
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf& safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too easy
to step over it or crawl under it. I would have thought that you would
need at least 3 wires at different heights. Even so - quite apart from
the legality - I'm not sure how effective it would be because it would
be easy enough to cut with insulated pliers. Cows don't usually have
access to pliers, so it works for them!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 02/08/15 22:48, Roger Mills wrote:

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too easy
to step over it or crawl under it. I would have thought that you would
need at least 3 wires at different heights. Even so - quite apart from
the legality - I'm not sure how effective it would be because it would
be easy enough to cut with insulated pliers. Cows don't usually have
access to pliers, so it works for them!

Given these things are strung up next to public footpaths, I see no
issues with any legality.

If there is, buy a pet rabbit and use the fence to contain him (and his
run just happens to be all around your perimeter).

As for the fence - it does not have to be the usual strings - you could
use any bit of chicken wire, as long as it is mounted on insulating
poles (not wood - or if wood, using insulated posts) and clear of the
ground buy a foot or so (otherwise wet weeds will short it out)

On 02/08/2015 22:51, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/08/15 22:48, Roger Mills wrote:

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too easy
to step over it or crawl under it. I would have thought that you would
need at least 3 wires at different heights. Even so - quite apart from
the legality - I'm not sure how effective it would be because it would
be easy enough to cut with insulated pliers. Cows don't usually have
access to pliers, so it works for them!

Given these things are strung up next to public footpaths, I see no
issues with any legality.

If there is, buy a pet rabbit and use the fence to contain him (and his
run just happens to be all around your perimeter).

As for the fence - it does not have to be the usual strings - you could
use any bit of chicken wire, as long as it is mounted on insulating
poles (not wood - or if wood, using insulated posts) and clear of the
ground buy a foot or so (otherwise wet weeds will short it out)

A standard "horse" fencer will provide a basic deterrent. I believe that
pig fencers have more of a kick, I think they are usually mains powered.

The trouble with both is that anyone with a bit of savvy will find them
easy to short out with a bit of grounded wire. So you really also need
an alarm triggered by shorting.

On 02/08/2015 23:14, newshound wrote:


The trouble with both is that anyone with a bit of savvy will find them
easy to short out with a bit of grounded wire. So you really also need
an alarm triggered by shorting.

Indeed. Electric fences only work for animals because they don't have
the DIY skills to be able to defeat them. For humans, they're useless!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 03/08/15 11:27, Roger Mills wrote:
On 02/08/2015 23:14, newshound wrote:


The trouble with both is that anyone with a bit of savvy will find them
easy to short out with a bit of grounded wire. So you really also need
an alarm triggered by shorting.

Indeed. Electric fences only work for animals because they don't have
the DIY skills to be able to defeat them. For humans, they're useless!

Karta the Oranutang worked out how to short out an electric fence:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...oo-escape.html

She is not the first - I saw a programme about Chantek the Orangutang
who did it in the early 80s (or maybe late 70s).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chantek

(You'd have to watch the linked documentary to see the fence bit).

In message , Tim Watts
writes
On 02/08/15 22:48, Roger Mills wrote:

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too easy
to step over it or crawl under it. I would have thought that you would
need at least 3 wires at different heights. Even so - quite apart from
the legality - I'm not sure how effective it would be because it would
be easy enough to cut with insulated pliers. Cows don't usually have
access to pliers, so it works for them!

Given these things are strung up next to public footpaths, I see no
issues with any legality.

Grey area alert. The usual arrangement is to only electrify one side of
the path. Particularly important for bridleways where a rider may be
injured by a shocked horse.

If there is, buy a pet rabbit and use the fence to contain him (and his
run just happens to be all around your perimeter).

Electrified plastic mesh netting is available for Rabbit control.
Curiously lengths are regularly stolen.

As for the fence - it does not have to be the usual strings - you could
use any bit of chicken wire, as long as it is mounted on insulating
poles (not wood - or if wood, using insulated posts) and clear of the
ground buy a foot or so (otherwise wet weeds will short it out)

Some form of radio suppression may be needed as mains energised fencing
tends to *tick* at medium wave frequencies.

--
Tim Lamb

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 02/08/2015 19:02, Julian Barnes wrote:
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf& safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too easy
to step over it or crawl under it.

The energiser will be fine, all you have to do is the fence differently.

I would have thought that you would need at least 3 wires at different
heights. Even so - quite apart from the legality - I'm not sure how
effective it would be because it would be easy enough to cut with
insulated pliers.

But they wont necessarily have any of those handy.

Cows don't usually have access to pliers, so it works for them!

On Monday, 3 August 2015 00:04:49 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 02/08/2015 19:02, Julian Barnes wrote:
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf& safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too easy
to step over it or crawl under it.

The energiser will be fine, all you have to do is the fence differently.

I would have thought that you would need at least 3 wires at different
heights. Even so - quite apart from the legality - I'm not sure how
effective it would be because it would be easy enough to cut with
insulated pliers.

But they wont necessarily have any of those handy.

some travel across water for days or weeks, they travle across land too for weeks, I'd have thought they'd find some way of cutting through a bit of wire.

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Monday, 3 August 2015 00:04:49 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 02/08/2015 19:02, Julian Barnes wrote:
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north
of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton
as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The
first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used
to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively
non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf&
safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One
of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders
or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a
555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire.
How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have
to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to
non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

A single level electric fence designed to control cattle wouldn't be
any
good for humans because - depending on the height - it would be too
easy
to step over it or crawl under it.

The energiser will be fine, all you have to do is the fence differently.

I would have thought that you would need at least 3 wires at different
heights. Even so - quite apart from the legality - I'm not sure how
effective it would be because it would be easy enough to cut with
insulated pliers.

But they wont necessarily have any of those handy.

some travel across water for days or weeks, they travle across land too
for
weeks, I'd have thought they'd find some way of cutting through a bit of
wire.

Not if they don't know its an electric fence till they come across it in the
dark.

On Sunday, 2 August 2015 19:04:11 UTC+1, Julian Barnes wrote:
... construct an electric fence ...

I'm not sure what a neon sign transformer would do ... possibly BigClive has something suitable demonic on his site.

Security electric fences are available

http://www.aps-perimeter-security.com/electro-fence/

A few suppliers are listed in the HSE document:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/oms/2011/04/

Factories in China might be less reluctant to supply lethally-high voltage equipment.

http://www.electrofence.cn/solutions...-solution.html

Owain

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 11:35:16 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 2 August 2015 19:04:11 UTC+1, Julian Barnes wrote:
... construct an electric fence ...

I'm not sure what a neon sign transformer would do ... possibly BigClive has something suitable demonic on his site.

Security electric fences are available

http://www.aps-perimeter-security.com/electro-fence/

Do like the anti fence spread technology , no need for lasers when a bit of builders band will do it;-)

http://www.aps-perimeter-security.co...-installation/

A few suppliers are listed in the HSE document:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/oms/2011/04/

Factories in China might be less reluctant to supply lethally-high voltage equipment.

http://www.electrofence.cn/solutions...-solution.html

Owain

I think two things.
Firstly, I think you are being far too complex about it. There are electric
fences in the countryside that run for months on a relatively small battery,
though they can generate some interference.
You are not allowed to do more than tickle animals though, if its fitted
where people are. Its ever so easy for a person to claim that they have
suffered injury these days if your fence made them fall for example.
I'd not want to put one in merely for keeping humans out.
Get some geese instead.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Julian Barnes" wrote in message
...
Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf & safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.

On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 8:33:59 AM UTC+1, Brian-Gaff wrote:
I think two things.
Firstly, I think you are being far too complex about it. There are electric
fences in the countryside that run for months on a relatively small battery,
though they can generate some interference.
You are not allowed to do more than tickle animals though, if its fitted
where people are. Its ever so easy for a person to claim that they have
suffered injury these days if your fence made them fall for example.
I'd not want to put one in merely for keeping humans out.
Get some geese instead.

Brian

--

or a 12 bore
snip

On 02/08/2015 22:43, Jonno wrote:
Julian Barnes scribbled


Hi people,

Following a near death experience at the hands of an illegal immigrant
and his gang who suddenly tipped out of the back of a lorry just north of
J9 of the M3 in Hampshire (clearly they're coming in via Southampton as
well) I've decided that since the government doesn't give a f*ck about
our personal security I'd better do something about it myself. The first
thing that sprang to mind was to construct an electric fence. We used to
knock these up for fun in the 1960s using old Post Office relays in a
make/break configuration. It was dead simple, cheap and relatively non-
lethal. But that was 50 years ago and times have moved on ('elf & safety
etc).
So how could a fence best be implemented using current technology? One of
the main drawbacks of the old relay system was that it was very
inefficient, being permanently 'on' whether there were any intruders or
not. I'm now thinking perhaps it would be better to use MOSFETS and a 555
timer to chop the current supply to a large inductor say 20 times a
second once an earth path has been detected on the fence's live wire. How
best to detect this earth path, though? Bearing in mind it would have to
work in rain and shine. And how best to limit the current to non-lethal
levels?
All constructive suggestions welcome, cheers.


How will you fit it to your car?


Better off changing the car:

http://www.paramountgroup.biz/media-centre/top-gear

--
Colin Bignell