I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).
--
Roland Perry

On 01/08/15 21:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).

http://www.twi-global.com/technical-...i-bond-teflon/

In article , Roland Perry
writes
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).
Have a look at 5-Star Adhesives.
I've used their cyano' and cellulose dope but not tried this one;
http://www.shop4glue.com/universal-b...--all-plastic-
repair-ptfe-polyethylene-polypropylene-silicone-70g-392-p.asp
--
Chris Holford

Chris Holford wrote:

Have a look at 5-Star Adhesives.

except their webshop is still down due to moving premises ...

I've heard 3M DP8005 recommended for polyethylene and ptfe, but never
need to try it.

On Saturday, 1 August 2015 23:36:04 UTC+1, Chris Holford wrote:
In article , Roland Perry
writes
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).
Have a look at 5-Star Adhesives.
I've used their cyano' and cellulose dope but not tried this one;
http://www.shop4glue.com/universal-b...--all-plastic-
repair-ptfe-polyethylene-polypropylene-silicone-70g-392-p.asp

I'm surprised to see one can still buy cellulose dope.


NT

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Chris Holford wrote:

Have a look at 5-Star Adhesives.

except their webshop is still down due to moving premises ...

Yeah, hell of an inditement of them that its down for so long, best part of
a year.

I've heard 3M DP8005 recommended for polyethylene and ptfe, but never need
to try it.

PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most glues
exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found anything which
stood out on their website).
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:23:43 on Sun, 2 Aug 2015,
Brian Gaff remarked:
PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

I don't know what material it is exactly, other than glues which say
"Except PE, PP and PTFE" don't work.

The thing itself is one of those grey plastic tubes[1] from a "frame
fixing", which might be PA (nylon).

[1] I'm not using it as a frame fixer, it just happens to be a tube with
suitable strength and dimensions.
--
Roland Perry

On 02/08/2015 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:23:43 on Sun, 2 Aug 2015,
Brian Gaff remarked:
PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to
glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high
melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

I don't know what material it is exactly, other than glues which say
"Except PE, PP and PTFE" don't work.

The thing itself is one of those grey plastic tubes[1] from a "frame
fixing", which might be PA (nylon).

[1] I'm not using it as a frame fixer, it just happens to be a tube with
suitable strength and dimensions.

I was surprised to see how well hot-melt adhesive worked on PVC.

Cheers
--
Syd

On 01/08/2015 21:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).

The only thing PTFE will stick to is PTFE. In order to coat things with
PTFE, they are first sprayed with a mixture of PTFE and other
substances, typically a resin of some type. The resin sticks to the
substrate and holds the PTFE in a physical matrix. Later layers of PTFE
will then stick to the exposed bits of PFTE.

IME, the only reliable way for anybody without that sort of technology
to fix things to polythene and to PTFE is using a physical connection,
such as a bolt. Both materials take a thread quite well.

--
Colin Bignell

On 02/08/2015 00:20, wrote:
On Saturday, 1 August 2015 23:36:04 UTC+1, Chris Holford wrote:
In article , Roland Perry
writes
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).
Have a look at 5-Star Adhesives.
I've used their cyano' and cellulose dope but not tried this one;
http://www.shop4glue.com/universal-b...--all-plastic-
repair-ptfe-polyethylene-polypropylene-silicone-70g-392-p.asp

I'm surprised to see one can still buy cellulose dope.

I would imagine it is more difficult these days to buy the
nitrocellulose version than other types.

--
Colin Bignell

Nightjar cpb wrote:

The only thing PTFE will stick to is PTFE.

Not according to 3M

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/79749O/3m-scotch-weld-structural-plastic-adhesive-dp-8005.pdf

True it has its lowest shear strength when bonding PTFE rather than
other plastics, and it's about £15 a tube (plus you need a special 10:1
plunger to get it out, for DIY you could probably mix it with a spatula,
rather than wasting a lot filling the special mixing nozzles).

On 02/08/15 11:07, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 01/08/2015 21:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).

The only thing PTFE will stick to is PTFE. In order to coat things with
PTFE, they are first sprayed with a mixture of PTFE and other
substances, typically a resin of some type. The resin sticks to the
substrate and holds the PTFE in a physical matrix. Later layers of PTFE
will then stick to the exposed bits of PFTE.

IME, the only reliable way for anybody without that sort of technology
to fix things to polythene and to PTFE is using a physical connection,
such as a bolt. Both materials take a thread quite well.


What about this:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/acryli...sives/4587315/

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/7...ve-dp-8005.pdf

On 02/08/15 11:21, Andy Burns wrote:
Nightjar cpb wrote:

The only thing PTFE will stick to is PTFE.

Not according to 3M

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/79749O/3m-scotch-weld-structural-plastic-adhesive-dp-8005.pdf


True it has its lowest shear strength when bonding PTFE rather than
other plastics, and it's about £15 a tube (plus you need a special 10:1
plunger to get it out, for DIY you could probably mix it with a spatula,
rather than wasting a lot filling the special mixing nozzles).


I posted a link to an article that mentioned that too.

Roland Perry wrote:

The thing itself is one of those grey plastic tubes from a "frame
fixing", which might be PA (nylon).

I'm not using it as a frame fixer, it just happens to be a tube with
suitable strength and dimensions.

Maybe it'd be easier to find a suitable tube made of a more glue
friendly material?

In message , at 11:24:07 on Sun, 2
Aug 2015, Tim Watts remarked:
IME, the only reliable way for anybody without that sort of technology
to fix things to polythene and to PTFE is using a physical connection,
such as a bolt. Both materials take a thread quite well.

What about this:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/acryli...sives/4587315/

That gave me something to start from, and this (less pricey) item got good
reviews for nylon in a magazine:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/J-B-PlasticW.../dp/B009EU5ZMK
--
Roland Perry

Tim Watts wrote:

I posted a link to an article that mentioned that too.

It's the one I mentioned at dark o'clock but thought I'd better see what
the spec said, they don't *actually* recommend it for PTFE, but then I
doubt a frame anchor is made from PTFE, nylon is more likely.

On 02/08/2015 11:21, Andy Burns wrote:
Nightjar cpb wrote:

The only thing PTFE will stick to is PTFE.

Not according to 3M

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/79749O/3m-scotch-weld-structural-plastic-adhesive-dp-8005.pdf


True it has its lowest shear strength when bonding PTFE rather than
other plastics, and it's about £15 a tube (plus you need a special 10:1
plunger to get it out, for DIY you could probably mix it with a spatula,
rather than wasting a lot filling the special mixing nozzles).

Perhaps I should have said the only thing that PTFE will reliably stick
to is PTFE. I have used adhesives with better than that specification to
hold steel to ABS and they were not dependable.


--
Colin Bignell

On 02/08/2015 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:23:43 on Sun, 2 Aug 2015,
Brian Gaff remarked:
PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to
glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high
melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

I don't know what material it is exactly, other than glues which say
"Except PE, PP and PTFE" don't work.

The thing itself is one of those grey plastic tubes[1] from a "frame
fixing", which might be PA (nylon)...

That is the most probable material, in which case cyanoacrylate or UV
cure adhesives usually work best.


--
Colin Bignell

In message , at
11:46:30 on Sun, 2 Aug 2015, Andy Burns
remarked:
they don't *actually* recommend it for PTFE, but then I doubt a frame
anchor is made from PTFE, nylon is more likely.

cough, I don't think anyone is seeing the "etc" in the title.
--
Roland Perry

On 02/08/15 10:23, Brian Gaff wrote:
PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

Brian

Well you could try fried egg. That alaways sticks to non stick pans
along with bacon ...

Or just sandpaper the thing


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 02/08/15 11:07, Nightjar cpb wrote:
On 01/08/2015 21:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I need some glue that'll work on the range of hard plastics that most
glues exclude. Will be near a Screwfix tomorrow (and haven't found
anything which stood out on their website).

The only thing PTFE will stick to is PTFE. In order to coat things with
PTFE, they are first sprayed with a mixture of PTFE and other
substances, typically a resin of some type. The resin sticks to the
substrate and holds the PTFE in a physical matrix. Later layers of PTFE
will then stick to the exposed bits of PFTE.

IME, the only reliable way for anybody without that sort of technology
to fix things to polythene and to PTFE is using a physical connection,
such as a bolt. Both materials take a thread quite well.

yes amd no.

Glues work in many ways. For example some glues penetrate the surface of
things, and thereby create a mechanical bond to porous surfaces with the
glue line itself being the final linkage of two parts. A good white
carpenters glue joint is of this sort.


Other glues react chemically with the surface to essentially 'weld' the
parts together: This is typical of plastic glues and cements that
contain the specific solvent for the plastic. solvent weld plastic
pipes are typical here.

And finally there are glues that work pretty much by suction. There is
no bond, but air pressure and the elimination of air in the joint pretty
much holds things together.

I have done that with car body f8iller and polythene. Its not a total
bond, and you can tear it apart, but it does stick. Also white glue and
plastics.

And indeed epoxy.

The key for using these 'glues that don't really stick' is to create as
much surface area as possible. So acid etch, or chemical etch, or
roughing up the surfaces with emery or wet and dry helps enormously.

Then what glue you use is not that important: its not penetrating the
surface, nor is it chemically bonding to it. Its just there to fill the
gap and the micro-roughness of the surface and get rid of the air.

hot epoxy to make it runny - or hot glue - all work.

PVA is good if one of the surfaces is porous and will suck the water
out, otherwise it takes ages to dry.




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

It breaks down well below its melting point.
The breakdown products are toxic, in particular they are extremely toxic
to birds, and it's often recommended not to have any teflon cooking pans
in the house if you have a bird. There's been some suggestion recently
that the breakdown products are also extremely toxic to unborn babies,
although that isn't universally accepted. Don't overheat a teflon pan -
max safe temperature is 240C.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 02/08/2015 11:07, Syd Rumpo wrote:
On 02/08/2015 10:57, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:23:43 on Sun, 2 Aug 2015,
Brian Gaff remarked:
PTFE is what non stick surfaces are made of, so getting anything to
glue to
it is unlikely, unless you melt it and modern ptfe has a very high
melting
point which is why its used on cookwear!

I don't know what material it is exactly, other than glues which say
"Except PE, PP and PTFE" don't work.

The thing itself is one of those grey plastic tubes[1] from a "frame
fixing", which might be PA (nylon).

[1] I'm not using it as a frame fixer, it just happens to be a tube with
suitable strength and dimensions.

I was surprised to see how well hot-melt adhesive worked on PVC.

Cheers

Interesting. I was about to test that for fixing pvc panels to plaster

On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:31:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:
this (less pricey) item got good reviews for nylon in a magazine:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/J-B-PlasticW.../dp/B009EU5ZMK

I have used this recently and it glues some plastics really well; I
have repaired an old calculator with it.
It doesn't glue polypropelene very well, but I'm still experimenting
with it. I very much dobt that it would glue teflon.

The worst thing about it is the smell, it stinks to high heaven; Have
to mix it, apply it and leave it to set outside the house overnight,
even then it still pongs a bit, but this does reduce afterwards.

Re PTFE. Us astronomers use it in thin strips as bearings on Dobsonian
telecopes and we either pin it in place or buy 'etched' PTFE which
apparently will then take glue successfully (though I haven't tried
this myself yet).

See 'etched virgin teflon' he

http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/ATM_parts/index.php

[Amazing telescopes].

A DIY method of etching teflon is he

http://drkfs.net/TEFLONETCHING.htm

[you could then ask people to come upstairs to see your etchings].
:-)

- Mike