Hello,

I'm not a big fan of down lighters but there are two in the en suite
and I figured tat I'd keep them for now. However, they both look a bit
tired and the one near the shower has bubbles under the paint as if it
is rusting.

I was thinking of buying some new ones. I see Toolstation sells a
no-name and a Sylvania; the Sylvania is twice the cost (I'm looking at
the IP56 ones because of the shower).

Is it worth paying extra for the Sylvania or do Sylvania have little
to do with the design and manufacture of them; are they just rebadged?

Thanks,
Stephen.

On 17/07/2015 23:49, lid wrote:
Hello,

I'm not a big fan of down lighters but there are two in the en suite
and I figured tat I'd keep them for now. However, they both look a bit
tired and the one near the shower has bubbles under the paint as if it
is rusting.

I was thinking of buying some new ones. I see Toolstation sells a
no-name and a Sylvania; the Sylvania is twice the cost (I'm looking at
the IP56 ones because of the shower).

Is it worth paying extra for the Sylvania or do Sylvania have little
to do with the design and manufacture of them; are they just rebadged?

Thanks,
Stephen.

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e. either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

[1] You could probably actually get away with replacing 240v lamps with
12v lamps which each have their own built-in transformer (rather than a
separate one) provided the hole size is right
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Roger Mills wrote in news:d0ulqaFs62dU1
@mid.individual.net:

On 17/07/2015 23:49, lid wrote:
Hello,

I'm not a big fan of down lighters but there are two in the en suite
and I figured tat I'd keep them for now. However, they both look a bit
tired and the one near the shower has bubbles under the paint as if it
is rusting.

I was thinking of buying some new ones. I see Toolstation sells a
no-name and a Sylvania; the Sylvania is twice the cost (I'm looking at
the IP56 ones because of the shower).

Is it worth paying extra for the Sylvania or do Sylvania have little
to do with the design and manufacture of them; are they just rebadged?

Thanks,
Stephen.

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e. either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

[1] You could probably actually get away with replacing 240v lamps with
12v lamps which each have their own built-in transformer (rather than a
separate one) provided the hole size is right

Go for proper LED Downlights. Look at:
http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co....ting/bathroom-
lighting/shower-lights

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e. either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.


NT

On 18 Jul 2015, DerbyBorn grunted:

Roger Mills wrote in news:d0ulqaFs62dU1
@mid.individual.net:

On 17/07/2015 23:49, lid wrote:

Is it worth paying extra for the Sylvania or do Sylvania have little
to do with the design and manufacture of them; are they just
rebadged?

I'm pretty sure that there's nothing special about Sylvania and they aren't
a high-end brand; I've certainly bought Sylvania downlighter lamps (ie 12V
incandescant lamps) from Toolstation in the past and been singularly
unimpressed with their longevity.

Go for proper LED Downlights. Look at:
http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co....ting/bathroom-
lighting/shower-lights

I certainly agree with the advice to use LED lamps - I wouldn't dream of
using anything else in a downlighter these days. Not sure about the
necessity of using expensive dedicated LED models like the above though; eg
I fitted one of these in the shower a couple of years ago, with a standard
240V, and it's been really good:
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12858

--
David

On 18/07/2015 20:16, wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e. either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.


NT

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 12:16:00 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing ones, and b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the
existing - i.e. either 240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know
which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.


NT

half true

steve

Lobster wrote:
On 18 Jul 2015, DerbyBorn grunted:

Is it worth paying extra for the Sylvania or do Sylvania have little
to do with the design and manufacture of them; are they just
rebadged?

I'm pretty sure that there's nothing special about Sylvania and they aren't
a high-end brand; I've certainly bought Sylvania downlighter lamps (ie 12V
incandescant lamps) from Toolstation in the past and been singularly
unimpressed with their longevity.

Funny that. 230v Sylvania GU18's are streets ahead of non-brand/Tesco's
own ones for longevity - well over a year compared to anything down to
10 days for cheapies.

Scott

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e. either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.

To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.
To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

I wouldnt advocate going with a crap choice simply because it happens to fit the existing hole. But everyone can do as they like.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********


--
Adam

On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

I would not attempt to,



--
Adam

On 19 Jul 2015, grunted:

On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

How much reduction in diameter are you talking about, and how many
iterations with the plaster applications?

--
David

On Sunday, 19 July 2015 14:23:56 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 19 Jul 2015, nt grunted:
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

How much reduction in diameter are you talking about, and how many
iterations with the plaster applications?

3 rounds, 1 to build up a structure that sloped upward, 2 to fill it to size, 3 to give a perfect finish. I don't know what the reduction was. It was pretty quick.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 14:23:56 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 19 Jul 2015, nt grunted:
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing -
i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic
method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

How much reduction in diameter are you talking about, and how many
iterations with the plaster applications?

3 rounds, 1 to build up a structure that sloped upward, 2 to fill it to
size, 3 to give a perfect finish. I don't know what the reduction was. It
was pretty quick.


But not as fast or as smart as buying a downlight that fits the existing
hole/cutout size.

--
Adam

On Sunday, 19 July 2015 17:38:50 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 14:23:56 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 19 Jul 2015, nt grunted:
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing -
i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic
method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

How much reduction in diameter are you talking about, and how many
iterations with the plaster applications?

3 rounds, 1 to build up a structure that sloped upward, 2 to fill it to
size, 3 to give a perfect finish. I don't know what the reduction was. It
was pretty quick.


But not as fast or as smart as buying a downlight that fits the existing
hole/cutout size.

Putting in an R80 downlight rather than LED because it fits a hole doesn't strike me as smart.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 17:38:50 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 14:23:56 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 19 Jul 2015, nt grunted:
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 20:51:52 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:
On 18/07/2015 20:16, nt wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as
the
existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing -
i.e.
either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours
are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

Nothing like as easy as cutting the right size of hole in the
first
place! In fact, not easy at all - unless you've got some magic
method
which I haven't heard of.


To enlarge a hole: put wood in the existing hole, use holesaw.

You use an oops arbor.

you can if you've got one.

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

How much reduction in diameter are you talking about, and how many
iterations with the plaster applications?

3 rounds, 1 to build up a structure that sloped upward, 2 to fill it to
size, 3 to give a perfect finish. I don't know what the reduction was.
It
was pretty quick.


But not as fast or as smart as buying a downlight that fits the existing
hole/cutout size.

Putting in an R80 downlight rather than LED because it fits a hole doesn't
strike me as smart.


So what size hole did you reduce just using plaster?

--
Adam

On Sunday, 19 July 2015 21:03:11 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 17:38:50 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 14:23:56 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
On 19 Jul 2015, nt grunted:
On Sunday, 19 July 2015 09:27:47 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...

To reduce a hole: wipe it round with plaster. When set repeat.

********

worked for me. I can only conclude you've not done it.

How much reduction in diameter are you talking about, and how many
iterations with the plaster applications?

3 rounds, 1 to build up a structure that sloped upward, 2 to fill it to
size, 3 to give a perfect finish. I don't know what the reduction was.
It
was pretty quick.


But not as fast or as smart as buying a downlight that fits the existing
hole/cutout size.

Putting in an R80 downlight rather than LED because it fits a hole doesn't
strike me as smart.


So what size hole did you reduce just using plaster?

R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it thicker than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can include scrim if you want, I didn't.


NT

wrote in message
...



So what size hole did you reduce just using plaster?

R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it thicker
than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can include scrim
if you want, I didn't.

Like I said. ********.



--
Adam

On 19/07/2015 21:33, wrote:


R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it
thicker than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can
include scrim if you want, I didn't.


It'l probably fall out soon.
Its best to cut a strip of ply, plasterboard or similar, push it
through the hole, glue it over the hole, plaster hole, re-drill.

On Sunday, 19 July 2015 21:35:10 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
nt wrote in message
...



So what size hole did you reduce just using plaster?

R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it thicker
than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can include scrim
if you want, I didn't.

Like I said. ********.

like I thought, dense

On 19 Jul 2015, dennis@home grunted:

On 19/07/2015 21:33, wrote:


R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it
thicker than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can
include scrim if you want, I didn't.


It'l probably fall out soon.
Its best to cut a strip of ply, plasterboard or similar, push it
through the hole, glue it over the hole, plaster hole, re-drill.

I put a square plate of plasterboard above the hole, and got SWMBO below to
wield her pencil and draw around the hole; then glued a second plasterboard
plate over the hole from above. I cut out the pencilled plasterboard
circle from the original plate, and glued that into the resulting circular
recess in the ceiling, and made good with plaster - result was as strong
(or stronger) then the original ceiling. I then cut a new circular hole,
sized to fit the new downlighter, in the double-thickness plasterboard.

(FWIW I've noticed that modern downlighter fittings tend to be smaller than
when the genre first appeared... I searched high and low without success to
find similar-sized replacements for my knackered downlighters)



--
David

On Sun, 19 Jul 2015 22:22:25 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

On 19 Jul 2015, dennis@home grunted:

On 19/07/2015 21:33, wrote:


R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it
thicker than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can
include scrim if you want, I didn't.


It'l probably fall out soon.
Its best to cut a strip of ply, plasterboard or similar, push it
through the hole, glue it over the hole, plaster hole, re-drill.

I put a square plate of plasterboard above the hole, and got SWMBO below to
wield her pencil and draw around the hole; then glued a second plasterboard
plate over the hole from above. I cut out the pencilled plasterboard
circle from the original plate, and glued that into the resulting circular
recess in the ceiling, and made good with plaster - result was as strong
(or stronger) then the original ceiling. I then cut a new circular hole,
sized to fit the new downlighter, in the double-thickness plasterboard.

(FWIW I've noticed that modern downlighter fittings tend to be smaller than
when the genre first appeared... I searched high and low without success to
find similar-sized replacements for my knackered downlighters)
I have often thought I could make use of a range of thin plastic
sleeves (vacuum formed would be adequate) to fit in damaged holes, or
indeed to protect the plaster edge.

If it had a largish rear flange that could be trimmed and stuck down
onto the plasterboard in the attic a cavity would be left below that
could be filled in one go to make good the repair or bring an aperture
down to the required size.

Different thicknesses of plasterboard could be accommodated by having
the sleeve deep and easily trimmed down to size.

On 7/18/2015 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, 18 July 2015 10:50:05 UTC+1, Roger Mills wrote:

Can't comment on makes but, for the least fuss, you'll need:
a) lamps which need the same size of hole in the ceiling as the existing
ones, and
b) lamps which operate at the same voltage as the existing - i.e. either
240v or 12v with a transformer [1][Do you know which yours are?]

Its easy enough to reduce or enlarge a hole in plasterboard.

That is being partly economical with the truth IMHO.

Enlarging a hole is relatively easy if you have a hole saw matching both
the original and the new hole size, and can fit them both on the arbour
at the same time - you then use the smaller as a pilot for the larger.

Failing that, a batten placed on top of the ceiling over the hole, and
fixed in place, will then carry a normal pilot bit[1].

A similar trick can be done with hole saws for cutting a ring of
plasterboard to reduce an existing hole, although this is more
difficult, since you still need to retain and glue the ring in place.

Any system that requires multiple applications of wet plaster freehand
does not really claim the title of "easy enough" in my book - more like
last resort if you can't find a better way of doing it!


[1] http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...g_plasterboard


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Monday, 20 July 2015 13:14:14 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

Any system that requires multiple applications of wet plaster freehand
does not really claim the title of "easy enough" in my book - more like
last resort if you can't find a better way of doing it!

a matter of minutes a time. I didnt find it in any way difficult, and it was pretty quick.


NT

"Lobster" wrote in message
. 236...
On 19 Jul 2015, dennis@home grunted:

On 19/07/2015 21:33, wrote:


R80 fittings, but how many mm I've no idea. They do vary. Make it
thicker than the original PB, whatever the light will take. You can
include scrim if you want, I didn't.


It'l probably fall out soon.


Of course it will fall out.

It's going to stay up for about the same time as prostitutes knickers.


--
Adam

How about these?
EBay 221595880621
Others are available....

Jim K