Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Yes well this is the problem when software gets involved. it does not know
what its doing, only what its been told to do from the programming point of
view. All it takes is an innocent mod of hardware and zap.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
says...

Yes well this is the problem when software gets involved. it does not know
what its doing, only what its been told to do from the programming point of
view. All it takes is an innocent mod of hardware and zap.
Brian

There's been a host of such recalls from several car manufacturers.

Perhaps they need to hand over control of their software to a specialist
organisation.

Microsoft for instance?

--
Sam

On 16/07/2015 16:54, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/

I'm sure a recall is cheaper than the debacle Totota suffered only recently!
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319897

On Thursday, 16 July 2015 16:54:46 UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/

I don't have/never had a Prius.

Dunno what's happened to Drivel.
Can you stand in for him?

En el artículo ,
harry escribió:

Dunno what's happened to Drivel.
Can you stand in for him?

No need, you're doing a perfectly good job as it is.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Fri, 17 Jul 2015 07:51:55 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artÃ*culo ,
harry escribió:

Dunno what's happened to Drivel.
Can you stand in for him?

No need, you're doing a perfectly good job as it is.

+1

Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.

--
Les

Tim Streater posted
In article , Big Les Wade
wrote:

Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.

You talking about after coming to rest e.g. at traffic lights? Or d'ye
mean under other conditions?

Yes I mean when coming to rest. I could understand it if it cut out
after, say, 20 or 30 seconds idling. But it cut out almost straightaway
- within two or three seconds. Surely can't do the battery any good.

--
Les

Big Les Wade wrote:

I could understand it if it cut out after, say, 20 or 30 seconds
idling. But it cut out almost straightaway - within two or three
seconds. Surely can't do the battery any good.

Or the starter motor, but that's not the point. The point is a lower
CO2 g/km figure, hence lower tax, hence more fleet sales, the increased
repair costs most likely don't affect the initial purchaser ...

On Sat, 18 Jul 2015 11:28:56 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Big Les Wade wrote:

I could understand it if it cut out after, say, 20 or 30 seconds
idling. But it cut out almost straightaway - within two or three
seconds. Surely can't do the battery any good.

Or the starter motor, but that's not the point. The point is a lower
CO2 g/km figure, hence lower tax, hence more fleet sales, the increased
repair costs most likely don't affect the initial purchaser ...

They'll probably fade away now, because that won't get any advantage in
the road tax.

Bob Eager wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

The point is a lower CO2 g/km figure, hence lower tax, hence more
fleet sales, the increased repair costs most likely don't affect
the initial purchaser ...

They'll probably fade away now, because that won't get any advantage in
the road tax.

It still affects BIK, if not road fund ....

On 18/07/2015 09:32, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.


Stop start cars are lethal, if you forget to turn the damn thing off
when you start the engine then they just don't go at the first junction
you decide to pull out on fast.
I do wonder how many accidents have been caused because someone forgot
to disable it?
You can make a switch using a 555 timer to auto disable the stop start.

On 18/07/2015 11:28, Andy Burns wrote:
Big Les Wade wrote:

I could understand it if it cut out after, say, 20 or 30 seconds
idling. But it cut out almost straightaway - within two or three
seconds. Surely can't do the battery any good.

Or the starter motor,

Smarts with stop start don't have a starter motor and I doubt if others
do either. They use the alternator to start the thing.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 18/07/2015 11:28, Andy Burns wrote:
Big Les Wade wrote:

I could understand it if it cut out after, say, 20 or 30 seconds
idling. But it cut out almost straightaway - within two or three
seconds. Surely can't do the battery any good.

Or the starter motor,

Smarts with stop start don't have a starter motor and I doubt if others
do either. They use the alternator to start the thing.


Or, they use the starter motor as an alternator.

On 18/07/15 09:32, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.


The Minis do that - luckily there is an override button.

On Saturday, 18 July 2015 09:34:44 UTC+1, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.

--
Les

All the High MPG/eco ones do.
You get used to it.
Must have a hell of a starter motor.
Most of them, light pressure on the acellarator pedal starts the engine.

dennis@home wrote:
On 18/07/2015 09:32, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.


Stop start cars are lethal, if you forget to turn the damn thing off when
you start the engine then they just don't go at the first junction you
decide to pull out on fast.
I do wonder how many accidents have been caused because someone forgot to disable it?
You can make a switch using a 555 timer to auto disable the stop start.

Not lethal at all. Firstly, *every* car with stop/ start tech that I've
driven has had a switch to disable it. Secondly, a warm engine will restart
quicker than you can get it into gear. The engine will not switch off
unless you select neutral.

Tim

In article
,
Tim+ wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 18/07/2015 09:32, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall
its cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius
hybrids needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.


Stop start cars are lethal, if you forget to turn the damn thing off
when you start the engine then they just don't go at the first junction
you decide to pull out on fast. I do wonder how many accidents have
been caused because someone forgot to disable it? You can make a switch
using a 555 timer to auto disable the stop start.

Not lethal at all. Firstly, *every* car with stop/ start tech that I've
driven has had a switch to disable it. Secondly, a warm engine will
restart quicker than you can get it into gear. The engine will not switch
off unless you select neutral.

On mine you simply have to push the brake pedal hard down for the engine to
stop. It will restart if you release the brake or operate the steering
wheel or gear shift.

On 18/07/2015 17:12, Tim+ wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 18/07/2015 09:32, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov
er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.


Stop start cars are lethal, if you forget to turn the damn thing off when
you start the engine then they just don't go at the first junction you
decide to pull out on fast.
I do wonder how many accidents have been caused because someone forgot to disable it?
You can make a switch using a 555 timer to auto disable the stop start.

Not lethal at all. Firstly, *every* car with stop/ start tech that I've
driven has had a switch to disable it. Secondly, a warm engine will restart
quicker than you can get it into gear. The engine will not switch off
unless you select neutral.

The smarts stop when you have your foot on the brake and the speed drops
below about 5 mph. They restart when you take your foot off the brake.
They have a switch, you have to press it every time you start the engine
if you don't want stop/start. Cr@p really.

Charles Hope wrote:

Tim+ wrote:

Not lethal at all. [...] The engine will not switch
off unless you select neutral.

On mine you simply have to push the brake pedal hard down for the engine to
stop. It will restart if you release the brake

It was certainly like that on an automatic I had as a loan car, within a
couple of seconds of braking to a stop, the engine stopped, regardless
of how hard you had braked.

On 18/07/2015 18:14, Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 18/07/2015 17:12, Tim+ wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
On 18/07/2015 09:32, Big Les Wade wrote:
Mike Tomlinson posted

Has your Pious been recalled yet? snerk

"Toyota has become the third car manufacturer in two weeks to
recall its
cars because of software problems, with over 625,000 Prius hybrids
needing an upgrade to stop the engine suddenly cutting out."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07...000_hybrids_ov

er_enginekilling_software_glitch/


I hired a car recently. It was *designed* so that the engine kept
suddenly cutting out. Very irritating.


Stop start cars are lethal, if you forget to turn the damn thing off
when
you start the engine then they just don't go at the first junction you
decide to pull out on fast.
I do wonder how many accidents have been caused because someone
forgot to
disable it?
You can make a switch using a 555 timer to auto disable the stop start.

Not lethal at all. Firstly, *every* car with stop/ start tech that I've
driven has had a switch to disable it. Secondly, a warm engine will
restart
quicker than you can get it into gear. The engine will not switch off
unless you select neutral.

The smarts stop when you have your foot on the brake and the speed
drops below about 5 mph. They restart when you take your foot off the
brake. They have a switch, you have to press it every time you start
the engine if you don't want stop/start. Cr@p really.

Disagree. I'm fed up with klods who don't turn their engines off at
level crossings, especially those where the wait time is known to be
long (Wye is a good example).


There is a big difference between stopping the engine at a crossing and
having it stop every time you approach an island, junction or just
crawling in traffic. With one you hold up the traffic because the car
isn't ready to go in short gaps (and doesn't go if you have forgotten to
disable it the last time you started the engine). Like I said cr@p,
really cr@p.

On 18/07/2015 18:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:

On 18/07/2015 18:14, Tim Streater wrote:

Disagree. I'm fed up with klods who don't turn their engines off at
level crossings, especially those where the wait time is known to be
long (Wye is a good example).

There is a big difference between stopping the engine at a crossing
and having it stop every time you approach an island, junction or just
crawling in traffic. With one you hold up the traffic because the car
isn't ready to go in short gaps (and doesn't go if you have forgotten
to disable it the last time you started the engine). Like I said cr@p,
really cr@p.

Then they need to tune the latency.


How?
They would need to predict when to start the engine from something other
than you releasing the brake or pressing the accelerator.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 18/07/2015 18:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:

On 18/07/2015 18:14, Tim Streater wrote:

Disagree. I'm fed up with klods who don't turn their engines off at
level crossings, especially those where the wait time is known to be
long (Wye is a good example).

There is a big difference between stopping the engine at a crossing
and having it stop every time you approach an island, junction or just
crawling in traffic. With one you hold up the traffic because the car
isn't ready to go in short gaps (and doesn't go if you have forgotten
to disable it the last time you started the engine). Like I said cr@p,
really cr@p.

Then they need to tune the latency.


How?

By not turning the engine off until its been stopped for longer.

They would need to predict when to start the engine from something other
than you releasing the brake or pressing the accelerator.

Just wait longer before turning the engine off.

En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that during
vehicle development.

They could make it intelligent, with a learning mode that adapts to the
driving style and conditions, and use that information to decide when or
whether to switch off the engine.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 18/07/2015 22:46, Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 18/07/2015 18:31, Tim Streater wrote:
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:

On 18/07/2015 18:14, Tim Streater wrote:

Disagree. I'm fed up with klods who don't turn their engines off at
level crossings, especially those where the wait time is known to be
long (Wye is a good example).

There is a big difference between stopping the engine at a crossing
and having it stop every time you approach an island, junction or just
crawling in traffic. With one you hold up the traffic because the car
isn't ready to go in short gaps (and doesn't go if you have forgotten
to disable it the last time you started the engine). Like I said cr@p,
really cr@p.

Then they need to tune the latency.

How?
They would need to predict when to start the engine from something
other than you releasing the brake or pressing the accelerator.

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that during
vehicle development.


So now they have to predict how long you are stopped at the junction
before that just big enough gap appears and turn the engine off just as
you go to pull out!
It doesn't work and I don't think you can make it work unless you have
an engine that starts instantly, every time.

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that during
vehicle development.

They could make it intelligent, with a learning mode that adapts to the
driving style and conditions, and use that information to decide when or
whether to switch off the engine.

Trouble with that approach is that it wouldn't allow them
to qualify for the cheaper rego in the jurisdictions stupid
enough to have lower rego fees for cars that do that.

Tim+ posted

Not lethal at all. Firstly, *every* car with stop/ start tech that I've
driven has had a switch to disable it.

I only discovered this when I returned the hire car. And even then you
have to turn it off every time you turn the ignition on.

Secondly, a warm engine will restart
quicker than you can get it into gear. The engine will not switch off
unless you select neutral.

This one did, being automatic.

--
Les

Tim Streater posted
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:

On 18/07/2015 18:14, Tim Streater wrote:

Disagree. I'm fed up with klods who don't turn their engines off at
level crossings, especially those where the wait time is known to be
long (Wye is a good example).

There is a big difference between stopping the engine at a crossing
and having it stop every time you approach an island, junction or just
crawling in traffic. With one you hold up the traffic because the car
isn't ready to go in short gaps (and doesn't go if you have forgotten
to disable it the last time you started the engine). Like I said cr@p,
really cr@p.

Then they need to tune the latency.

Yes, perhaps if the manufacturers did that, then the cars wouldn't be
such rubbish to drive.


--
Les

On 19/07/2015 00:33, Rod Speed wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that during
vehicle development.

They could make it intelligent, with a learning mode that adapts to the
driving style and conditions, and use that information to decide when or
whether to switch off the engine.

Trouble with that approach is that it wouldn't allow them
to qualify for the cheaper rego in the jurisdictions stupid
enough to have lower rego fees for cars that do that.

Of course, options can be added by the customer post registration!

En el artículo , Fredxxx
escribió:

Of course, options can be added by the customer post registration!

Please don't feed the troll. Thank you.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 19/07/2015 00:33, Rod Speed wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that during
vehicle development.

They could make it intelligent, with a learning mode that adapts to the
driving style and conditions, and use that information to decide when or
whether to switch off the engine.

Trouble with that approach is that it wouldn't allow them
to qualify for the cheaper rego in the jurisdictions stupid
enough to have lower rego fees for cars that do that.

Of course, options can be added by the customer post registration!

I doubt too many jurisdictions would give you
the lower rego fees if it was easy to do that.

On 20/07/2015 01:43, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 19/07/2015 00:33, Rod Speed wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that during
vehicle development.

They could make it intelligent, with a learning mode that adapts to the
driving style and conditions, and use that information to decide
when or
whether to switch off the engine.

Trouble with that approach is that it wouldn't allow them
to qualify for the cheaper rego in the jurisdictions stupid
enough to have lower rego fees for cars that do that.

Of course, options can be added by the customer post registration!

I doubt too many jurisdictions would give you
the lower rego fees if it was easy to do that.

I know of a couple of people with tuned cars with non-standard
injectors, increased boosts and the like. I'm sure they pay the same
duty as the original car!

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
Disagree. I'm fed up with klods who don't turn their engines off at
level crossings, especially those where the wait time is known to be
long (Wye is a good example).

I tend to shop midweek, and it's surprising the numbers you see sitting in
their car or van in the carpark with the engine running. Especially vans,
where I assume the driver isn't paying for the fuel. Usually with a window
open - so presumably not for heating or AC?

--
*What do little birdies see when they get knocked unconscious? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/07/2015 23:14, dennis@home wrote:
So now they have to predict how long you are stopped at the junction
before that just big enough gap appears and turn the engine off just as
you go to pull out!
It doesn't work and I don't think you can make it work unless you have
an engine that starts instantly, every time.

The one I was lent would restart if you put the clutch down - and
wouldn't stop if you held it down. So basically it only stopped the
engine if you stopped in neutral.

Toyota - so sometimes they do get their S/W right!

Andy

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 20/07/2015 01:43, Rod Speed wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 19/07/2015 00:33, Rod Speed wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

Introduce a delay before cutting the engine. They can tune that
during
vehicle development.

They could make it intelligent, with a learning mode that adapts to
the
driving style and conditions, and use that information to decide
when or
whether to switch off the engine.

Trouble with that approach is that it wouldn't allow them
to qualify for the cheaper rego in the jurisdictions stupid
enough to have lower rego fees for cars that do that.

Of course, options can be added by the customer post registration!

I doubt too many jurisdictions would give you
the lower rego fees if it was easy to do that.

I know of a couple of people with tuned cars with non-standard injectors,
increased boosts and the like. I'm sure they pay the same duty as the
original car!

Sure, but the original car didn’t get cheaper rego because of the way it did
things.

Bit on the local BBC news last night saying that the majority of the Boris
Buses - which are hybrids - are running on pure diesel power at all times,
due to faulty battery packs. And he is introducing a battery only version.
;-)

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 11:53:13 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Bit on the local BBC news last night saying that the majority of the Boris
Buses - which are hybrids - are running on pure diesel power at all times,
due to faulty battery packs. And he is introducing a battery only version.
;-)

--
*See no evil, Hear no evil, Date no evil.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The BMW version monitors the battery performance and if it calculates it is getting too low it wont operate the stop start regime.

I find it more annoying in a diesel engined car than in a petrol engined one. More noise on start up I think

/The BMW version monitors the battery performance and if it calculates it is getting too low it wont operate the stop start regime. /Q

Shurely they all do this?!

Jim K

On 22/07/2015 09:54, fred wrote:
On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 11:53:13 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
Bit on the local BBC news last night saying that the majority of
the Boris Buses - which are hybrids - are running on pure diesel
power at all times, due to faulty battery packs. And he is
introducing a battery only version. ;-)



The BMW version monitors the battery performance and if it calculates
it is getting too low it wont operate the stop start regime.

I would expect them all to do that.