Hello,

I have discovered that I have a lead water pipe and that it is shared
with my neighbour. I have contacted the water company and they have
told me that I will have to change the bit on my property.

I have a concrete path down the side of the house, so hiring a big
drill to dig it up could be fun.

I was going to ask how deep should the water pipe be but the recent
post "replacing services to the property" gave me some useful
information. In that thread, 30 inches was given as the depth and it
was suggested to use the largest MDPE pipe allowed (32mm).

That thread also talked about running ducts for various things. Would
you run the water in a duct. It would make it easy to replace in
future but you would lose the colour coding as the blue pipe would be
hidden.

My main worry is hitting another service. How do you avoid hitting the
gas and electricity: just dig slowly and carefully?

I do see two problems if I go ahead and replace the pipe.

1. My neighbours might not want the expense of having their branch of
the lead pipe removed. How would I cap the pipe? I've never worked
with lead, so I might need someone to do this for me.

2. My house is slightly higher than the neighbour's house. There are
about five steps up from the street to my house. Could this mean the
pipe is very deep? Would it be 30" below street level, rather than 30"
below house level, or would the pipe just have to follow the slope and
steps and be 30" below the surface.

I'm hoping the water company is sending someone out to have a look and
chat with me about this.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 10:22:40 +0100, Stephen wrote:

I have discovered that I have a lead water pipe and that it is shared
with my neighbour. I have contacted the water company and they have told
me that I will have to change the bit on my property.

Do you have share a stopcock out at the street? If so, then would the
water company consider separating the stopcocks? Everything inside of
there is your problem. Stopcock and outside is their problem.

From experience of when we found lead from stopcock to house at our old
place, it's fine until you so much as look at it - then it just turns
into a colander to spite you. I wouldn't even try to do anything to it
unless the neighbour is happy to tie-in. If you really, really want to -
and they don't - then I'd be tempted to leave all the lead in place, and
run a complete new blue from a new street stopcock to a new internal
stopcock and connection to your internal plumbing. Then turn the old
internal off, cross your fingers, and just ignore it.

I can't imagine they won't be happy to change from a shared street
stopcock, because they just can't meter it as it is now.

The lead pipe itself is usually so well lined with decades of deposits
that there's no lead in actual contact with the water, so no health risk.

On 08/07/15 10:22, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

I have discovered that I have a lead water pipe and that it is shared
with my neighbour. I have contacted the water company and they have
told me that I will have to change the bit on my property.

Why? What has prompted this?

I have a concrete path down the side of the house, so hiring a big
drill to dig it up could be fun.

I was going to ask how deep should the water pipe be but the recent
post "replacing services to the property" gave me some useful
information. In that thread, 30 inches was given as the depth and it
was suggested to use the largest MDPE pipe allowed (32mm).

That thread also talked about running ducts for various things. Would
you run the water in a duct. It would make it easy to replace in
future but you would lose the colour coding as the blue pipe would be
hidden.

My main worry is hitting another service. How do you avoid hitting the
gas and electricity: just dig slowly and carefully?

Basically. And try to map out the route. If you have only one end
visible (where the service comes up in the house) it will be at best
guesswork. There sometimes are other clues.

Another option is to get a specialist contractor to mole the pipe in.
The gas companies seem to do this as a matter of course. Water and
electricity not, for reasons I do not know. But you could find your own
contractor - worst case 2 holes at the ends and maybe another in there
needs to be a sharp turn in the route.

In theory services can be detected and mapped - electricity is easier -
it emits electomagnetic fields. Gas - well, I've seen surveyors using
some really funky looking device in London to apparently trace gas
mains, but I assume it must use acoustics - and it might well not work
on a very small pipe with sod all flow.


Ah he

http://www.made-sa.com/ftp/pgiArticl...V_2_00_US_.pdf

Bloody amazing, modern tech...


It would probably all cost more than employing a couple of labourers
with instructions to hand dig.

I do see two problems if I go ahead and replace the pipe.

1. My neighbours might not want the expense of having their branch of
the lead pipe removed. How would I cap the pipe? I've never worked
with lead, so I might need someone to do this for me.

2. My house is slightly higher than the neighbour's house. There are
about five steps up from the street to my house. Could this mean the
pipe is very deep? Would it be 30" below street level, rather than 30"
below house level, or would the pipe just have to follow the slope and
steps and be 30" below the surface.

I'm hoping the water company is sending someone out to have a look and
chat with me about this.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On 08/07/2015 10:36, Adrian wrote:

snip

The lead pipe itself is usually so well lined with decades of deposits
that there's no lead in actual contact with the water, so no health risk.

That is generally only true if the water is considered to be hard. Soft
water is generally acidic and has a reputation for dissolving lead,
though admittedly still in very small quantities.

In article ,
Stephen writes:
Hello,

I have discovered that I have a lead water pipe and that it is shared
with my neighbour. I have contacted the water company and they have
told me that I will have to change the bit on my property.

Why are you wanting to change it?
If you are in a hard water area, it will have an internal scale
coating by now.

I have a concrete path down the side of the house, so hiring a big
drill to dig it up could be fun.

I was going to ask how deep should the water pipe be but the recent
post "replacing services to the property" gave me some useful
information. In that thread, 30 inches was given as the depth and it
was suggested to use the largest MDPE pipe allowed (32mm).

I think it's actually 750mm depth.
If you can't make it that deep, there are insulated sleeves you
can use. I couldn't go that deep because the supply wasn't that
deep, so I taped a length of 1mm T&E along the pipe with all
conductors (including the earth) crimped and soldered together
at the far end. If it ever froze, I would pass a heating current
along the cable. IIRC, it was 15m long, and I found a 12V
electronic lighting transfer with 250W output would dump something
over 200W into the cable (you can't just work it out using resistance,
because the skin effect predominates given the high frequency supply).

That thread also talked about running ducts for various things. Would
you run the water in a duct. It would make it easy to replace in
future but you would lose the colour coding as the blue pipe would be
hidden.

Nowadays, it gets run in ducts through things like concrete
foundations, although not normally the ground. The duct might
well carry any leak into the house, which might not be desirable.

My main worry is hitting another service. How do you avoid hitting the
gas and electricity: just dig slowly and carefully?

Yes, and have an idea where they are.
I had to tunnel under the gas pipe to make it deep enough.
Gas pipe was bright yellow plastic covered steel, although they
can just be plastic (exactly same as the water pipe, but yellow).
Although I crossed the path of the mains cable, I did not find it,
presumably it was deeper. Old ones can be quite fragile.

I do see two problems if I go ahead and replace the pipe.

1. My neighbours might not want the expense of having their branch of
the lead pipe removed. How would I cap the pipe? I've never worked
with lead, so I might need someone to do this for me.

I bought an MDPE to lead coupler - there may be similar caps.
You are not suppose to leave a deadleg on a water supply pipe,
as it will become stagnent water, and might trickle bacteria
back into the supply.

2. My house is slightly higher than the neighbour's house. There are
about five steps up from the street to my house. Could this mean the
pipe is very deep? Would it be 30" below street level, rather than 30"
below house level, or would the pipe just have to follow the slope and
steps and be 30" below the surface.

I'm hoping the water company is sending someone out to have a look and
chat with me about this.

Thanks,
Stephen.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Sorry my replies never made it. I'll try again.

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 09:36:19 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
wrote:

Do you have share a stopcock out at the street? If so, then would the
water company consider separating the stopcocks? Everything inside of
there is your problem. Stopcock and outside is their problem.

Yes, it is shared but I think the pipe tees under my property, so I
would have to run new pipe to the pavement.

From experience of when we found lead from stopcock to house at our old
place, it's fine until you so much as look at it - then it just turns
into a colander to spite you. I wouldn't even try to do anything to it
unless the neighbour is happy to tie-in. If you really, really want to -
and they don't - then I'd be tempted to leave all the lead in place, and
run a complete new blue from a new street stopcock to a new internal
stopcock and connection to your internal plumbing. Then turn the old
internal off, cross your fingers, and just ignore it.

The document from the water co. says you cannot do this as it creates
a dead-leg and they will inspect that the old pipe is removed.

I can't imagine they won't be happy to change from a shared street
stopcock, because they just can't meter it as it is now.

The lead pipe itself is usually so well lined with decades of deposits
that there's no lead in actual contact with the water, so no health risk.

On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:09:19 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:


Why? What has prompted this?

I have just moved in and found there was a lead pipe (I know I should
have spotted this before I bought, not after!)

On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 23:41:54 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I bought an MDPE to lead coupler - there may be similar caps.
You are not suppose to leave a deadleg on a water supply pipe,
as it will become stagnent water, and might trickle bacteria
back into the supply.

I cannot find a lead stop end but from googling and finding web sites
where other people have done this, it seems that other people have
used a lead to copper coupling and put a stop end on a short length of
copper attached to that.

I have completed the forms for the water co. so someone will visit to
give me more advice.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On 23/07/2015 10:16, lid wrote:
On Wed, 8 Jul 2015 23:41:54 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I bought an MDPE to lead coupler - there may be similar caps.
You are not suppose to leave a deadleg on a water supply pipe,
as it will become stagnent water, and might trickle bacteria
back into the supply.

I cannot find a lead stop end...

Beat flat, fold over several times and solder.


--
Colin Bignell

On 23/07/2015 10:13, lid wrote:
On Wed, 08 Jul 2015 12:09:19 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:


Why? What has prompted this?

I have just moved in and found there was a lead pipe (I know I should
have spotted this before I bought, not after!)


Lead pipes are usually only a problem if you live in a soft water area.

--
Colin Bignell