My mains water feed is lead pipe and currently runs under the floor of
the garage and then by a circuitous and unbeautiful route to the water
meter at the back of the house. I want to change to a simpler layout so
the water meter is in the garage and the house supply is fed from there

What is the best way to connect from a lead pipe which is deep in the
ground to a water meter which is directly above it? Wiped leadwork is
beyond my DIY skills so I will be getting someone else to do that part
but I'd like to have some idea of just what the whole job involves like
how big a hole needs to be dug? inspection hatch needed? specialist
fittings? cost of moving the meter?

Anyone have experience of this one?
Anna

--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642

"Anna Kettle" wrote in message
...
My mains water feed is lead pipe and currently runs under the floor of
the garage and then by a circuitous and unbeautiful route to the water
meter at the back of the house. I want to change to a simpler layout so
the water meter is in the garage and the house supply is fed from there

What is the best way to connect from a lead pipe which is deep in the
ground to a water meter which is directly above it? Wiped leadwork is
beyond my DIY skills so I will be getting someone else to do that part
but I'd like to have some idea of just what the whole job involves like
how big a hole needs to be dug? inspection hatch needed? specialist
fittings? cost of moving the meter?

I wish a) we had time and b) you lived closer to us, Spouse would love to do
a job like that and I'd love to meet you!

Mary

Anna Kettle wrote:
My mains water feed is lead pipe

I thought that was illegal?


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:05:57 -0000, Anna Kettle wrote:

My mains water feed is lead pipe

Get your water company to replace it then.

--
Nigel M

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Anna Kettle wrote:
My mains water feed is lead pipe

I thought that was illegal?

Our rising main is lead. It changes where the internal stop tap meets it -
and then only because Spouse changed all the internal piping to copper in
the 1960s.

Mary

Thats why you are just a handyman

Crap tools and advice

Mary Fisher wrote:
[ snip ]

Blah blah blah.

Mary Fisher wrote:
[ snip ]

Blah blah blah.

Alex wrote:
[ snip ]

Blah blah blah.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:05:57 -0000, Anna Kettle
wrote:

My mains water feed is lead pipe and currently runs under the floor of
the garage and then by a circuitous and unbeautiful route to the water
meter at the back of the house. I want to change to a simpler layout so
the water meter is in the garage and the house supply is fed from there

What is the best way to connect from a lead pipe which is deep in the
ground to a water meter which is directly above it? Wiped leadwork is
beyond my DIY skills so I will be getting someone else to do that part
but I'd like to have some idea of just what the whole job involves like
how big a hole needs to be dug? inspection hatch needed? specialist
fittings? cost of moving the meter?

Anyone have experience of this one?
Anna

You don't need to do wiped work, all you need is something to expand
the lead pipe to accept the copper pipe you want to use.

This is usually done by danging in a hardwood cone like a victorian
childs whipping top, but any substitute will do, the aim is simply to
open up the last inch of the lead pipe.

Put the copper into the lead pipe and carefully run solder along the
join to a decent depth.

Job done. Time taken about half an hour at most.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...
Anna Kettle wrote:
My mains water feed is lead pipe

I thought that was illegal?

There is nothing stopping existing pipes from being lead. However, you
cannot now use it for construction, installation, renewal, repair or
replacement.

Colin Bignell

In article ,
Nigel Molesworth wrote:
My mains water feed is lead pipe

Get your water company to replace it then.

Provided you're willing to pay.

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Chris Bacon wrote:
Alex wrote:
[ snip ]

Blah blah blah.

Are you the new dribble?

--
*If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're built upside down.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

nightjar

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...

Anna Kettle wrote:

My mains water feed is lead pipe

I thought that was illegal?


There is nothing stopping existing pipes from being lead. However, you
cannot now use it for construction, installation, renewal, repair or
replacement.

Surely it's very bad for your health to run drinking water
through lead pipes?
Here in NZ I'd just buy a coil of that blue plastic water pipe
and a couple of plastic connectors and do it myself. It's very
cheap and simple.

Maybe the recent PVC pipes would be a good idea though
http://www.checnet.org/healtheHouse/...sp?Main_ID=148

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
Alex wrote:
[ snip ]

Blah blah blah.

Are you the new dribble?

Not at all, I'm just commenting on the current bout of verbal
diarrhoea that's infecting some people in uk.d-i-y. If you
can't beat 'em, join them. Bring on some nice adverts, or
something vaguely useful, instead of a load of useless wink
(sp).

Nick wrote:


Surely it's very bad for your health to run drinking water
through lead pipes?

Depends on the water.

I wouldn't want to do it here in mid Kent as the water is as
soft as a baby's botty and might just dissolve some lead
on the way through.

Back in north Surrey, near London, it made no difference at all
as the lead pipes (and everything else) furred up in no time with
limescale. Up there, if it was a long hot summer, water came out
the tap like milk - had to let it settle, pour it off the inch of
chalk, then lob in a spoon of citric acid just to make it palatable!

As for leaded solder - big fuss over nothing IMO, given the tiny
amount that is exposed to the water flow.

Have the kiwis banned leaded solder BTW?

Cheers

Tim

Alex wrote:
Thats why you are just a handyman

Just? And what superior position in life would you occupy? Brain surgeon?
Nuclear Physicist?

I am and have been many things.

Crap tools and advice.

Your powers of clairvoyance astound me. How do you know what tools I have?
Some are cheap & cheerful, some are expensive & good quality - it depends on
the use they are intended for.

Crap advice? I haven't given any advice, I simply asked a question.

Why don't you try making constructive suggestions or asking relevant
questions?

However, thank you for the unprovoked ad homium attack.


--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

In message , Alex
writes
Thats why you are just a handyman

Well, he isn't really

If you'd been following threads in this NG recently, he's recently
decided on a change in direction in life


Crap tools and advice


.... And what do you have to offer of use ?

--
geoff

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:05:57 -0000, Anna Kettle
wrote:

Anyone have experience of this one?

Go to a decent plumber's merchant and get a Leadlok connector. The rest
is obvious (and involves doing the new work in copper or plastic).

If your water is even moderately hard, lead pipe is no hazard. If your
water is soft, then talk to the waterboard about gettign the whole lot
swapped.

Wiping soldered lead is great fun, but down a hole is no place to learn
it.

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:

There is nothing stopping existing pipes from being lead. However, you
cannot now use it for construction, installation, renewal, repair or
replacement.

Nor should anyone be making wiped or any other sort of soft-soldered
joints to old lead pipes. A 'lead-lok' compression coupling is the way
to do it:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=85874

--
Andy

Tim S wrote:

Nick wrote:



Surely it's very bad for your health to run drinking water
through lead pipes?


Depends on the water.

I wouldn't want to do it here in mid Kent as the water is as
soft as a baby's botty and might just dissolve some lead
on the way through.

My city is supplied almost entirely by rainwater, which is
presumably very soft. I'm not aware of any lead water pipes at
all. These days they are all polyethylene. The connections and
pipe are very cheap and the connections just screw together with
bare hands.

As for leaded solder - big fuss over nothing IMO, given the tiny
amount that is exposed to the water flow.

Have the kiwis banned leaded solder BTW?

I see signs of some companies converting to lead-free solder but
I don't think it's a worry unless used for drinking water.
For years people have had lead flashings on their roof, and
collected roof water for drinking. But a roof is usually painted,
and the water runs off it quickly. I assume the inside of a lead
pipe would be bare lead, and the water just sits there.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:01:51 +0000, Tim S wrote:

|Nick wrote:
|
|
| Surely it's very bad for your health to run drinking water
| through lead pipes?
|
|Depends on the water.
|
|I wouldn't want to do it here in mid Kent as the water is as
|soft as a baby's botty and might just dissolve some lead
|on the way through.

They put a little chalk into our soft water off the peat moors to get over
that problem.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
Freedom of Speech, Expression, Religion, and Democracy are
the keys to Civilization, together with legal acceptance of
Fundamental Human rights.

Andy Dingley wrote:

Wiping soldered lead is great fun, but down a hole is no place to learn
it.

That was the advice I received (here, I imagine, many years ago) and
with some trepidation I tried a lead-lok. I can confirm they are just great!

Douglas de Lacey

"Nick" wrote in message
...
nightjar

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
. uk...

Anna Kettle wrote:

My mains water feed is lead pipe

I thought that was illegal?


There is nothing stopping existing pipes from being lead. However, you
cannot now use it for construction, installation, renewal, repair or
replacement.

Surely it's very bad for your health to run drinking water through lead
pipes?

Only in soft water areas, where the lead may be dissolved into the water. In
hard water areas, the inside of the pipe rapidly grows a protective layer of
scale.

Here in NZ I'd just buy a coil of that blue plastic water pipe and a
couple of plastic connectors and do it myself. It's very cheap and simple.

MDPE pipe is the usual way for renewal or installation in Britain too.
However, there is a lot of digging out to do to replace a riser and not much
wrong with leaving a lead pipe in place if it is in good condition and the
water is hard. My main concern with a lead pipe would be whether it had been
damaged or distorted, causing either leaks or reduced flow respectively.

Colin Bignell

"Nick" wrote in message
...

... I assume the inside of a lead pipe would be bare lead, and the water
just sits there.

No, lead is very reactive and pipes soon oxidise, creating a barely soluble
lining.

Mary

Andy Hall wrote:

That's curious. I thought that Kent was all hard water as a result
of the chalk hills......

Certainly is in the Medway area, hard as nails.

--
Dave
The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
01634 717930
07850 597257

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:05:51 +0000, Douglas de Lacey
wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

Wiping soldered lead is great fun, but down a hole is no place to learn
it.

That was the advice I received (here, I imagine, many years ago) and
with some trepidation I tried a lead-lok. I can confirm they are just great!

Douglas de Lacey

How do you work out what size leadlok you need ?

I have a blanked off lead pipe in an outside WC I want to join to but
cant cut a bit off to take to mercahnt as I cant guarntee being able
to turn off the supply !

Robert

Andy Hall wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:01:51 +0000, Tim S wrote:

Nick wrote:


Surely it's very bad for your health to run drinking water
through lead pipes?

Depends on the water.

I wouldn't want to do it here in mid Kent as the water is as
soft as a baby's botty and might just dissolve some lead
on the way through.

That's curious. I thought that Kent was all hard water as a result
of the chalk hills......


OK - more specifically, near Tunbridge Wells. All sandstone and/or clay
round here.

I measured the water with one of those little chemical kits when I got
my first dishwasher - a Bosch that can be programmed with the water
hardness.

The kit read right at the bottom of the scale, the dishwasher hasn;t
bothered to use any salt since (2 years on).
Surprised me - never seen water that soft before.

Cheers

Tim

"Tim S" wrote in message
...

I measured the water with one of those little chemical kits when I got
my first dishwasher - a Bosch that can be programmed with the water
hardness.

The kit read right at the bottom of the scale, the dishwasher hasn;t
bothered to use any salt since (2 years on).
Surprised me - never seen water that soft before.

I'm surprised the water supplier isn't adding hardness, they have done round
here (Leeds) for donkeys' years. We have no choice.

Mary

Cheers

Tim

Tim S wrote:
I wouldn't want to do it here in mid Kent as the water is as
soft as a baby's botty and might just dissolve some lead
on the way through.

Which mid Kent do you live in?
The water round here is not what I would call "soft".

Alex


--
Alex Meaden
Technical Support Officer
Computing Service
University of Kent

"robgraham" wrote in message
ups.com...
....
My penny's worth, based on the above and having a similar experience at
a friend's house, is that you should bypass the lead pipe altogether.
Remember that in general you won't have to bury the plastic pipe so
deep.

The water cut-off stopcock at your property boundary usually sets how deep
you need to go. If you are replacing it, it is probably easiest to mole the
new pipe in, rather than dig a trench.

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:54:04 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:05:57 -0000, Anna Kettle
wrote:

Wiping soldered lead is great fun, but down a hole is no place to learn
it.
And would be contrary to the regs to boot.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html

robert wrote in message ...
....
How do you work out what size leadlok you need ?

I have a blanked off lead pipe in an outside WC I want to join to but
cant cut a bit off to take to mercahnt as I cant guarntee being able
to turn off the supply !

1/2" 7lb lead pipe is about 25mm OD
3/4" 9lb lead pipe is about 30mm OD
1" 16lb lead pipe is about 40mm OD

Colin Bignell

Anna Kettle wrote:

What is the best way to connect from a lead pipe which is deep in the
ground to a water meter which is directly above it? Wiped leadwork is
beyond my DIY skills so I will be getting someone else to do that part

I don't think wiped lead joints are alowed anymore anyway...

You can use a leadlok connector or a universal transition connector.
www.bes.ltd.uk will have both. See something like part number 13545 for
example.

but I'd like to have some idea of just what the whole job involves like
how big a hole needs to be dug? inspection hatch needed? specialist
fittings? cost of moving the meter?

Depends on if you DIY... that would probably depend on you having a
stopcock outside that would let you isolate the house feed.

You may find that you can request replacement of the lead anyway - and
that might even happen for free. If not I would only be concerned if you
are in a soft water area. With hard water the lead soon acquires a
coating on the inside that keeps the metal out of contact with the water.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
says...
Anna Kettle wrote:

What is the best way to connect from a lead pipe which is deep in the
ground to a water meter which is directly above it? Wiped leadwork is
beyond my DIY skills so I will be getting someone else to do that part

I don't think wiped lead joints are alowed anymore anyway...

You can use a leadlok connector or a universal transition connector.
www.bes.ltd.uk will have both. See something like part number 13545 for
example.

but I'd like to have some idea of just what the whole job involves like
how big a hole needs to be dug? inspection hatch needed? specialist
fittings? cost of moving the meter?

Depends on if you DIY... that would probably depend on you having a
stopcock outside that would let you isolate the house feed.

You may find that you can request replacement of the lead anyway - and
that might even happen for free. If not I would only be concerned if you
are in a soft water area. With hard water the lead soon acquires a
coating on the inside that keeps the metal out of contact with the water.


Thanks all. I will investigate leadlok fixings. Luckily there is a
stopcock further down the line so all I need to do is agree with my
neighbour (who shares it) a suitable time to turn the water off. I'm in
a hard water area so I think the lead pipe will be OK - hasn't failed
yet anyway and I'm not keen to dig up the front garden

Mary: The solution is for you and hubby to come to visit me in Sunny
Suffolk for a holiday. Make him finish the kitchen first though or you
will never get it done

Anna
--
~~ Anna Kettle, Suffolk, England
|""""| ~ Lime plaster repair and conservation
/ ^^ \ // Freehand modelling in lime: overmantels, pargeting etc
|____| www.kettlenet.co.uk 01359 230642