I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden plugs
into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom handles - so
I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of broom
handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in fixings
section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set for a day
or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the screwhead or
snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs a
couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes and
at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug when
pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the holes
reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which came
up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each before
finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but can
enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour down
the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he said NDN
had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a chippie who had
in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small straight runs. Neighbour
down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet plastered so the wall can
be plastered to match - flat then angle then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have the
new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the "edge of a
threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off materials
and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in stubborn and
determined mode!

Cheers


Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 1:37:16 PM UTC, David wrote:
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden plugs
into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom handles - so
I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of broom
handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in fixings
section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set for a day
or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the screwhead or
snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs a
couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes and
at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug when
pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the holes
reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which came
up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each before
finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but can
enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour down
the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he said NDN
had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a chippie who had
in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small straight runs. Neighbour
down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet plastered so the wall can
be plastered to match - flat then angle then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have the
new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the "edge of a
threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off materials
and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in stubborn and
determined mode!

Cheers


Dave R

Skirting can be made as bendy as you like, if its too stiff just use a more flexible design. Eg 2 strips of think bends far easier than 1 of thick. There's also wigglewood, and less likely steam bending.


NT

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug
when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the
holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which
came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each
before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but
can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour
down the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he
said NDN had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a
chippie who had in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small straight
runs. Neighbour down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet plastered
so the wall can be plastered to match - flat then angle then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have
the new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the "edge
of a threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!



I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing the
rear of the skirting? Alternatively, making skirting sections out of 3 or
more layers of thin wood (ply?) glued together in a curved shape.

/I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing the rear of the skirting? Alternatively, making skirting sections out of 3 or more layers of thin wood (ply?) glued together in a curved shape./q

Yes. More than once.......

Jim K

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:58:45 +0000, mick wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20
mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being
impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I
think that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the
plug when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made
the holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit
when inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill
which came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of
each before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS
bit but can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work
better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour
down the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he
said NDN had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a
chippie who had in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small
straight runs. Neighbour down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet
plastered so the wall can be plastered to match - flat then angle then
flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have
the new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the
"edge of a threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!



I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing
the rear of the skirting? Alternatively, making skirting sections out of
3 or more layers of thin wood (ply?) glued together in a curved shape.


I refer the honourable gentleman to the statement:

"Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!"

Prior to purchasing the skirting the general view was that it would
probably bend.

It does bend to almost fit - the problem is that the crumbly block wall
isn't strong enough to hold that bend with screws and plastic wall plugs
when the skirting is pulled in the final few millimetres.

This is the final attempt to get the existing skirting to fit.

Oh, and I've just turned up some No More Nails and some Gripfill.
Possible alternatives for larger clearance holes.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On 20/03/15 15:15, David wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:58:45 +0000, mick wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20
mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being
impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I
think that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the
plug when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made
the holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit
when inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill
which came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of
each before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS
bit but can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work
better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour
down the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he
said NDN had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a
chippie who had in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small
straight runs. Neighbour down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet
plastered so the wall can be plastered to match - flat then angle then
flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have
the new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the
"edge of a threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!



I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing
the rear of the skirting? Alternatively, making skirting sections out of
3 or more layers of thin wood (ply?) glued together in a curved shape.


I refer the honourable gentleman to the statement:

"Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!"

Prior to purchasing the skirting the general view was that it would
probably bend.

It does bend to almost fit - the problem is that the crumbly block wall
isn't strong enough to hold that bend with screws and plastic wall plugs
when the skirting is pulled in the final few millimetres.

This is the final attempt to get the existing skirting to fit.

Oh, and I've just turned up some No More Nails and some Gripfill.
Possible alternatives for larger clearance holes.

Steam the skirting



Cheers

Dave R



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

Yes you can learn a lot from violin makers I'm told.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 20/03/15 15:15, David wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 14:58:45 +0000, mick wrote:

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20
mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being
impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I
think that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the
plug when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made
the holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit
when inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill
which came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of
each before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS
bit but can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work
better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour
down the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he
said NDN had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a
chippie who had in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small
straight runs. Neighbour down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet
plastered so the wall can be plastered to match - flat then angle then
flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have
the new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the
"edge of a threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!



I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing
the rear of the skirting? Alternatively, making skirting sections out of
3 or more layers of thin wood (ply?) glued together in a curved shape.


I refer the honourable gentleman to the statement:

"Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!"

Prior to purchasing the skirting the general view was that it would
probably bend.

It does bend to almost fit - the problem is that the crumbly block wall
isn't strong enough to hold that bend with screws and plastic wall plugs
when the skirting is pulled in the final few millimetres.

This is the final attempt to get the existing skirting to fit.

Oh, and I've just turned up some No More Nails and some Gripfill.
Possible alternatives for larger clearance holes.

Steam the skirting



Cheers

Dave R



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the rare
story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. ?" Erwin Knoll

On Friday, 20 March 2015 15:15:36 UTC, David wrote:
It does bend to almost fit - the problem is that the crumbly block wall
isn't strong enough to hold that bend with screws and plastic wall plugs
when the skirting is pulled in the final few millimetres.

Is it possible to screw some brackets into the floor to brace the skirting into place while any fixings cure or even for some weeks until the skirting settles into its new form?

Owain

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 08:46:38 -0700, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Friday, 20 March 2015 15:15:36 UTC, David wrote:
It does bend to almost fit - the problem is that the crumbly block wall
isn't strong enough to hold that bend with screws and plastic wall
plugs when the skirting is pulled in the final few millimetres.

Is it possible to screw some brackets into the floor to brace the
skirting into place while any fixings cure or even for some weeks until
the skirting settles into its new form?

Owain

Previous thread shows temporary fixings for bending/holding - large nails
through centre hole of wooden round thing.

This worked quite well as the skirting could be moved to line up and the
wood acted as rollers.

Skirting is bent into a bow shape using two clamps, one at each end,
pulled together with rope.

It took several days for the MDF to ease into final shape. Bend till it
didn't want to go any more, leave for several hours, check and find it
would bend some more.

For the suggestions that MDF can be steamed to bend it, I will let someone
else try that. IMHO it will just destroy the MDF which is basically fine
sawdust and glue. Steaming rehydrates cured wood so that it bends like
freshly cut green wood. Something, I think, about making the individual
cells and fibres flexible again. MDF does not have a similar structure to
wood. In my limited experience damp MDF swells up and crumbles.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On 20/03/2015 14:58, mick wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug
when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the
holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which
came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each
before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but
can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour
down the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he
said NDN had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a
chippie who had in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small straight
runs. Neighbour down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet plastered
so the wall can be plastered to match - flat then angle then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have
the new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the "edge
of a threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!



I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing the
rear of the skirting?

Several times. IMO it's the only way this is ever going to work.




--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 17:12:41 +0000, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 20/03/2015 14:58, mick wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that
the screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block
wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it
set for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through
the screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the
wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it
needs a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120
minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20
mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being
impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I
think that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the
plug when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made
the holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit
when inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill
which came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of
each before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS
bit but can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work
better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour
down the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he
said NDN had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a
chippie who had in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small
straight runs. Neighbour down the road will do the same, but hasn't
yet plastered so the wall can be plastered to match - flat then angle
then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have
the new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the
"edge of a threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off
materials and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in
stubborn and determined mode!



I've not been following this thread, but has anyone suggested kerfing
the rear of the skirting?

Several times. IMO it's the only way this is ever going to work.

I originally asked about kerfing in my first thread about this - then
discovered that the skirting would bend to the curve without kerfing.

If there was a brick inner wall to the bay I would have fitted the bloody
thing weeks ago.

If I could have ordered the correct profile in kerfed MDF for a reasonable
price then I would have.

As it turned out, standard MDF skirting was the sensible option and an
experiment showed that it would bend enough to more or less match the
profile of the bay.

So I am trying to pull it in the last little bit without kerfing.

Kerfing is still in reserve as an option - as is 3D printing a bent
skirting board!

Cheers

Dave R



--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

Your problem is the tension building up in the bent skirting which is pulling out the wall plugs. Kerfing will reduce that tension.

Richard

/Your problem is the tension building up in the bent skirting which is pulling out the wall plugs. Kerfing will reduce that tension./q

Don't tell him pike! :-)

Jim K

Maybe lots of cuts partly through the skirting might help it bend?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"David" wrote in message
...
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden plugs
into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom handles - so
I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom
handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in fixings
section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set for a day
or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the screwhead or
snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs a
couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes and
at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug when
pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the holes
reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which came
up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each before
finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but can
enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour down
the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he said NDN
had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a chippie who had
in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small straight runs. Neighbour
down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet plastered so the wall can
be plastered to match - flat then angle then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have the
new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the "edge of a
threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off materials
and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in stubborn and
determined mode!

Cheers


Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:55:11 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Maybe lots of cuts partly through the skirting might help it bend?
Brian

As discussed previously, kerfing may be an option but most descriptions of
kerfing talk about making the cuts on the inside of the curve.

Cutting on the outside of the curve would probably make it a little more
bendy - bending like (say) 10mm MDF if you had 8mm cuts. Some risk of
snapping along the kerf, perhaps.

Having got the skirting to very, very, very nearly fit just by bending it,
and finding that everything worked apart from a crumbly wall, then I'm
having one last go with this piece of skirting. If this fails I will try
some of the alternatives suggested.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 4:47:33 PM UTC, David wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:55:11 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Maybe lots of cuts partly through the skirting might help it bend?
Brian

As discussed previously, kerfing may be an option but most descriptions of
kerfing talk about making the cuts on the inside of the curve.

Cutting on the outside of the curve would probably make it a little more
bendy - bending like (say) 10mm MDF if you had 8mm cuts. Some risk of
snapping along the kerf, perhaps.

Having got the skirting to very, very, very nearly fit just by bending it,
and finding that everything worked apart from a crumbly wall, then I'm
having one last go with this piece of skirting. If this fails I will try
some of the alternatives suggested.

Cheers

Dave R

Kerfed skirting appears to be cut half way through, its a lot of cuts to make of course. You can buy prekerfed if the profile matches. Surely 2 thin strips would be much quicker though.


NT

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 09:56:54 -0700, meow2222 wrote:

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 4:47:33 PM UTC, David wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 15:55:11 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Maybe lots of cuts partly through the skirting might help it bend?
Brian

As discussed previously, kerfing may be an option but most descriptions
of kerfing talk about making the cuts on the inside of the curve.

Cutting on the outside of the curve would probably make it a little
more bendy - bending like (say) 10mm MDF if you had 8mm cuts. Some risk
of snapping along the kerf, perhaps.

Having got the skirting to very, very, very nearly fit just by bending
it,
and finding that everything worked apart from a crumbly wall, then I'm
having one last go with this piece of skirting. If this fails I will
try some of the alternatives suggested.

Cheers

Dave R

Kerfed skirting appears to be cut half way through, its a lot of cuts to
make of course. You can buy prekerfed if the profile matches. Surely 2
thin strips would be much quicker though.

The main issue for me when using multiple strips of wood is matching the
profile of the other skirting.

I suppose you could clamp the two pieces together and use a router to cut
the profile, then separate them and fix them back precisely as they were
clamped, but there is quite a lot of scope for error there.

It is all down to the original profile from the 1930s - when we extended
the house we had a special order of skirting to match the existing and I'm
trying to maintain continuity.

Which is why we ordered a custom size of MDF skirting off t'Internet and
I'm trying to make it fit.

The old skirting around the bay was hardboard on thin wooden strips and a
moulding along the top.

Perhaps I should have thought more about why it was done that way
(although I don't know if that was original - I am pretty sure the rest of
the skirting was from the pencil notes on the back).

[Umm....mainly because they had the house number on which you wouldn't
expect for something fitted later. No social comment, unfortunately.]

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug
when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the
holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which
came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each
before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but
can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.
snip

Well, that was quick and quite a lot of fun!

The resin was squidgy enough to work with the larger holes from the 28mm
core drill - although the plugs needed to be centred as they wobbled a bit.

The smaller holes - 25mm SDS drill for 23mm broom handle - used less resin
and the plug slipped in nice and slowly with the resin oozing up the sides.

The plugs were 70mm long and the holes roughly 70mm deep into the block,
so the plugs sit below the plaster and are more or less fully encased by
block.

I used almost two small tubes of the Screwfix resin (the one which doesn't
need the special £30 applicator gun). Three squirts per hole seemed to be
enough for some to come out around the top of the plug - this also may
well bond to the plaster around the hole. No waste as there was space
where the plaster had been drilled through to take any extra resin.

I may use 100mm long screws, as the depth is roughly 18mm skirting + 15mm
plaster + 70mm plug for fully sunk plugs (although this is on the border
line of the tolerances, especially with a counter sunk screw). For those
which didn't go fully into the block I'll use the shorter 70mm screws.
Unless, of course, I decide to go out and buy a couple more boxes of
screws so I have 80mm and 90mm lengths as well. Not really worth skimping
at this point.

I am quite taken by this two part resin in a gun - I could have done with
this back in the days when car body work used to rot and need filling!

Two part resin seems to be all over the place - the plastic wood seems to
be (smells like) brown coloured car body filler. It does make me wonder if
you could fasten large pieces of wood together with this gun resin - for
example when building a shed.

I threw the last bit away as I can't see any way to stop with a part used
tube as the mixing in these cheap tubes starts (as far as I can tell)
before the resin gets to the mixer nozzle. You may be able to use the more
expensive cartridges with the specialist guns in more than one go - I
haven't checked. Although I do wonder why you have two nozzles with each
cartridge if you can only use the cartridge once. Nothing on the cartridge
about storing part used.

Cheers


Dave R



--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 4:35:01 PM UTC, David wrote:
On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:37:13 +0000, David wrote:

I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit, but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden
plugs into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom
handles - so I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in
fixings section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set
for a day or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the
screwhead or snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs
a couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes
and at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins..

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient..

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug
when pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the
holes reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which
came up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each
before finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but
can enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.
snip

Well, that was quick and quite a lot of fun!

The resin was squidgy enough to work with the larger holes from the 28mm
core drill - although the plugs needed to be centred as they wobbled a bit.

"David" wrote in message
...
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit,

Why can't you just bend it more so it fits completely ?

but that final pull in is proving that the
screw+plug+skirting is slightly stronger than the cinder block wall.

I am following advice about fixing very large cross-dowelled wooden plugs
into the wall. Noted that I couldn't find any hardwood broom handles - so
I have had to go with soft wood.

I have the resin in the gun cartridge and I'm drilling the holes.

In a previous thread The Other Mike said:

"Drill much bigger holes in the wall, plug with chopped up section of
broom
handle liberally smeared with injection resin (the resin is in fixings
section of the toolstation and screwfix catalogues) Let it set for a day
or so, then use woodscrews. You'll pull the mdf through the screwhead or
snap the screw before the plug is pulled out of the wall."

This is more or less the plan, but I thought I would just check on the
setting time for the resin.

Two part resin usually sets quite quickly so I am wondering if it needs a
couple of days to go off thoroughly.

From the instructions on the tube the curing time at 5C is 120 minutes and
at 20C it has a working time of 5 mins and a curing time of 20 mins.

However, better to wait too long than rip a plug out by being impatient.

It also says to fill the hole 2/3 full with resin before inserting the
fixing but that won't be happening! Trial and error as usual but I think
that I just need enough so I can see it oozing out all round the plug when
pushed in. I have no idea how much I will need - I have made the holes
reasonably snug (in that the broom handle just wobbles a bit when
inserted) apart from a couple of trial holes with a core drill which came
up slightly larger. I think I will experiment with one of each before
finally glueing the rest - I am drilling with a large SDS bit but can
enlarge with the core drill if that turns out to work better.

Footnote: we were talking to the neighbours about it (well, neighbour down
the road who helps next door neighbour with building work) and he said NDN
had tried to fix curved skirting, given up, brought in a chippie who had
in turn given up, then did it in a lot of small straight runs. Neighbour
down the road will do the same, but hasn't yet plastered so the wall can
be plastered to match - flat then angle then flat.

Should all else fail I may have to do this but I am reluctant to have the
new plaster hacked off then the wall re-plastered again in the "edge of a
threepenny bit" pattern.

Probably a lesson in when to forget "sunk capital" and write off materials
and labour so far and start again. However, I'm still in stubborn and
determined mode!

Cheers


Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 10:20:21 +1100, john james wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit,

Why can't you just bend it more so it fits completely ?
snip

Because if you bend a length of wood by pulling in the ends it forms a
regular curve.

The wall is not a regular curve.

So the wood does not pre-bend to fit the wall.

In previously posted pictures the skirting is bent more than the curve of
the wall.

With the mend, it almost fits.

It just needs a final pull in.

Which it has now had.

Cheers


Dave R




--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

"David" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 10:20:21 +1100, john james wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit,

Why can't you just bend it more so it fits completely ?
snip

Because if you bend a length of wood by pulling in the ends it forms a
regular curve.

The wall is not a regular curve.

So the wood does not pre-bend to fit the wall.

Sure, but you dont have to bend it more by pulling in the ends,
you can bend it using a different approach where you need
something other than a regular curve like bending it between
3 solid things like is done with pipe benders.

In previously posted pictures the skirting is bent more than the curve of
the wall.

With the mend, it almost fits.

It just needs a final pull in.

Which it has now had.

On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:18:00 +1100, john james wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 10:20:21 +1100, john james wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit,

Why can't you just bend it more so it fits completely ?
snip

Because if you bend a length of wood by pulling in the ends it forms a
regular curve.

The wall is not a regular curve.

So the wood does not pre-bend to fit the wall.

Sure, but you dont have to bend it more by pulling in the ends,
you can bend it using a different approach where you need something
other than a regular curve like bending it between 3 solid things like
is done with pipe benders.
snip

Of course, pipe benders work on pipe - which stays bent.

Bend MDF skirting, and as soon as you release any of the tension it starts
to unbend.

So you can't form it to an arbitrary curve then take it out of the formers
and fix it to the wall.

It has to be fixed whilst under tension to preserve the curve.

Remember the aim is to screw the MDF skirting flush to a curved wall - you
can't have any formers between the MDF and the wall.

Cheers


Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

"David" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 08:18:00 +1100, john james wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 10:20:21 +1100, john james wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
I've had to take a couple of weeks off to attend to other things.
Now back on the job.

Progress so far:

skirting bent almost to fit,

Why can't you just bend it more so it fits completely ?
snip

Because if you bend a length of wood by pulling in the ends it forms a
regular curve.

The wall is not a regular curve.

So the wood does not pre-bend to fit the wall.

Sure, but you dont have to bend it more by pulling in the ends,
you can bend it using a different approach where you need something
other than a regular curve like bending it between 3 solid things like
is done with pipe benders.
snip

Of course, pipe benders work on pipe - which stays bent.

I was talking about where the force is applied to what is being
bent. That isn't just at the ends as you did it. So you dont end
up with a regular curve if that is not what you want.

Bend MDF skirting, and as soon as you release any of the tension it starts
to unbend.

But doesnt end up straight again. So you are free to bend it more
than you need and have it not require any special force to have it
the shape you want when you screw it to the wall.

So you can't form it to an arbitrary curve then take it out of the formers
and fix it to the wall.

Of course you can.

It has to be fixed whilst under tension to preserve the curve.

Not if you bend it more than you need.

Remember the aim is to screw the MDF skirting flush to a curved wall - you
can't have any formers between the MDF and the wall.

No one was suggesting that you have anything between
the MDF and the wall, JUST that you can apply the force
to the MDF in other than just the ends when bending it.

And you're free to have those other things on the inside
of the curve so the MDF is forced into something other
than a regular curve, screw the MDF to the wall with it
like that and then remove those from the inside of the
MDF once its screwed to the wall.