http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/a_t...debt_the_facts

Frightening!

On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:00:53 +0000, harryagain wrote:

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/
a_tale_of_deficit_and_the_debt_the_facts

Frightening!

That people believe such blatant spin? Isn't it just?

Without even getting beyond the very first section, can you explain how
absolute figures, uncorrected for inflation - even when they're 35yrs
old, are somehow more important than a %age of GDP? Because, to me, it
would seem the latter is the more relevant figure.

On 16/01/2015 16:00, harryagain wrote:
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/a_t...debt_the_facts

Frightening!


I find it quite comforting to know that the figures are as good as that.

--
Colin Bignell

Not really, cos at the moment its a good time to borrow on fixed terms for
the country. Labour has it right, now is the time to invest in the british
worker and by using such a low interest loan, if we get up on our feet again
we can easily pay it off from taxes.
I think Conservatives got it half right for the start of the problems, but
now they need to change tack I think, but they are stuck in a rut.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harryagain" wrote in message
...
http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/a_t...debt_the_facts

Frightening!

In message , Adrian
writes
On Fri, 16 Jan 2015 16:00:53 +0000, harryagain wrote:

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/
a_tale_of_deficit_and_the_debt_the_facts

Frightening!

That people believe such blatant spin? Isn't it just?

Without even getting beyond the very first section, can you explain how
absolute figures, uncorrected for inflation - even when they're 35yrs
old, are somehow more important than a %age of GDP? Because, to me, it
would seem the latter is the more relevant figure.
But GDP can also be misleading being often quoted as measuring "income"
or "wealth". I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should
spend more on foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.
--
bert

Do you have no friends to discuss these issues with?

Do you presume that participants on this group are interested in your
ramblings?

This group is not a soap box for your views and self absorbed concerns.

You are a sad little man AICMFP.

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

Brian Gaff wrote

Not really, cos at the moment its a good time to borrow on fixed terms for
the country. Labour has it right, now is the time to invest in the british
worker and by using such a low interest loan, if we get up on our feet
again

Trouble is that its very far from clear if its actually possible
to 'invest in the british worker' and 'get up on our feet again'
with the govt doing that. I don’t believe that myself.

we can easily pay it off from taxes.

I think Conservatives got it half right for the start of the problems, but
now they need to change tack I think, but they are stuck in a rut.

The most fundamental point is the govts aren't as important
as they think they are on the state of the economy.

harryagain wrote

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/a_t...debt_the_facts

Frightening!

On 16/01/2015 20:25, bert wrote:

I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should
spend more on foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

That's because politicians are much like the rest of us - no-one reads
the small print in the 100 page T&C.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m wrote
bert wrote

I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should spend
more on foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

That's because politicians are much like the rest of us
- no-one reads the small print in the 100 page T&C.

Its more that there isn't any other more viable
measure of what a country's economy is doing.

On 17/01/2015 02:48, Rod Speed wrote:
alan_m wrote
bert wrote

I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should spend more on
foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

That's because politicians are much like the rest of us - no-one reads
the small print in the 100 page T&C.

Its more that there isn't any other more viable measure of what a
country's economy is doing.

Well, for a start a look at individuals' income and distribution in
general. And then the various well-being indices. And then deciding any
such measure is pandering to a flawed system.


--
Cheers, Rob

RJH wrote
Rod Speed wrote
alan_m wrote
bert wrote

I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should spend more on
foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

That's because politicians are much like the rest of us - no-one reads
the small print in the 100 page T&C.

Its more that there isn't any other more viable measure of what a
country's economy is doing.

Well, for a start a look at individuals' income

Impossible to measure, particularly with the self employed.

and distribution in general.

Even more impossible to measure.

And then the various well-being indices.

Those are a complete wank.

And then deciding any such measure is pandering to a flawed system.

There is no viable alternative.

Corse it’s a flawed system, but the alternatives are even more flawed.

On 16/01/15 17:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Labour has it right,

Impossible. In my entire lifetime Labour has never had it right.

The tragedy is that I can only think of one possible time the tories had
it right, either.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 17/01/2015 09:50, Rod Speed wrote:
RJH wrote
Rod Speed wrote
alan_m wrote
bert wrote

I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should spend more
on foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

That's because politicians are much like the rest of us - no-one
reads the small print in the 100 page T&C.

Its more that there isn't any other more viable measure of what a
country's economy is doing.

Well, for a start a look at individuals' income

Impossible to measure, particularly with the self employed.


If you're suggesting at any one point in time, to the nearest penny,
including monetised 4th sector incomes, yes, of course.

Measuring mainstream, taxable income (75%?), trivial.

and distribution in general.

Even more impossible to measure.


Wealth, income and distribution is pretty well estimated. It's what the
Piketty thing is all about. As is the Spirit Level, although I
can't/haven't finished that - too weirdly empirical for my mind.

And then the various well-being indices.

Those are a complete wank.


:-)

And then deciding any such measure is pandering to a flawed system.

There is no viable alternative.

Corse it’s a flawed system, but the alternatives are even more flawed.



It's fatally flawed, and we could do so much better. And we'll only know
what 'better' is by kicking away the foundations of the current system.


--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Rod Speed wrote:
Well, for a start a look at individuals' income

Impossible to measure, particularly with the self employed.

So no point in income tax. Or the self employed trying to get a mortgage.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

RJH wrote
Rod Speed wrote
RJH wrote
Rod Speed wrote
alan_m wrote
bert wrote

I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should spend more on
foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

That's because politicians are much like the rest of us - no-one reads
the small print in the 100 page T&C.

Its more that there isn't any other more viable measure of what a
country's economy is doing.

Well, for a start a look at individuals' income

Impossible to measure, particularly with the self employed.

If you're suggesting at any one point in time, to the nearest penny,

That doesn’t happen with any measure.

including monetised 4th sector incomes, yes, of course.

Measuring mainstream, taxable income (75%?), trivial.

But is a lousy measure of the state of
the economy, much worse than GDP.

and distribution in general.

Even more impossible to measure.

Wealth, income and distribution is pretty well estimated.

Estimated is useless when you want a
measure of the state of the economy.

It's what the Piketty thing is all about.

But that doesn’t even attempt to measure the state of the economy.

As is the Spirit Level, although I can't/haven't finished that - too
weirdly empirical for my mind.

And then the various well-being indices.

Those are a complete wank.

:-)

And then deciding any such measure is pandering to a flawed system.

There is no viable alternative.

Corse it’s a flawed system, but the alternatives are even more flawed.

It's fatally flawed,

Only in the sense that there is plenty that matters
that doesn’t get included in a country's GDP.

and we could do so much better.

Easy to claim. Have fun suggesting a feasible better measure of the
state of the economy that reflects that actual state of the economy.

And we'll only know what 'better' is by kicking away the foundations of
the current system.

Even sillier.

In article ,
bert ] writes:
I must admit I find it difficult to grasp why we should
spend more on foreign aid or subsidising the Germans or the French
because we spend a bit more on prostitution or illegal drugs.

The French have not yet updated their GDP figures to include
prostitution. I don't know if they include illegal drugs yet
either.

The GDP contribution we gave for prostitution is not credible,
as covered by BBC Radio 4 - "More or Less" some weeks back - it
had to be a significant over-estimate.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 16/01/2015 17:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Not really, cos at the moment its a good time to borrow on fixed terms for
the country. Labour has it right, now is the time to invest in the british
worker and by using such a low interest loan, if we get up on our feet again
we can easily pay it off from taxes

Trouble is Labour borrow even when the time isn't right. Every Labour
government has increased the national debt - bribe today's voters from
tomorrow's taxpayers.

Andy

On 18/01/15 21:59, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 16/01/2015 17:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Not really, cos at the moment its a good time to borrow on fixed terms
for
the country. Labour has it right, now is the time to invest in the
british
worker and by using such a low interest loan, if we get up on our feet
again
we can easily pay it off from taxes

Trouble is Labour borrow even when the time isn't right. Every Labour
government has increased the national debt - bribe today's voters from
tomorrow's taxpayers.

Essentially they do the 'marx and spender' in power, and then blame the
nasty capitalists who have to sort the mess out with 'cuts'

Andy


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

"Vir Campestris" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 16/01/2015 17:15, Brian Gaff wrote:
Not really, cos at the moment its a good time to borrow on fixed terms
for
the country. Labour has it right, now is the time to invest in the
british
worker and by using such a low interest loan, if we get up on our feet
again
we can easily pay it off from taxes

Trouble is Labour borrow even when the time isn't right. Every Labour
government has increased the national debt - bribe today's voters from
tomorrow's taxpayers.

They are buying voters, mostly the ones on benefits.
The latest trick is to import them (immigrants).
They don't give a toss about this country as long as they can get/stay in
power.

harryagain wrote
Vir Campestris wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

Not really, cos at the moment its a good time to borrow on fixed terms
for the country. Labour has it right, now is the time to invest in the
british worker and by using such a low interest loan, if we get up on
our feet again we can easily pay it off from taxes

Trouble is Labour borrow even when the time isn't right. Every Labour
government has increased the national debt - bribe today's voters from
tomorrow's taxpayers.

They are buying voters,

They all do.

mostly the ones on benefits.

Nope, they buy anyone they can. They all do.

The latest trick is to import them (immigrants).

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Those don’t even get a vote.

They don't give a toss about this country as long as they can get/stay in
power.

Pity immigrants don’t get any say on that.

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 06:54:26 +0000, harryagain wrote:

They don't give a toss about this country as long as they can get/stay
in power.

That would appear to be a cross party attitude and certainly applies to
the current band of free loaders!

My local MP (Tory) appears to be interested in everything under the sun
if judged by all the photo ops in the local paper. Come a vote he's right
there where the whips tell to be!


Charlie.

--
He who throws dirt loses ground.