http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their government.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Who do they owe it to?

It can't be to each other, because otherwise the average net worth (and
debt) of everyone would be £0.

--
Bartc

On 05/05/2014 19:44, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Colin Bignell

Quite. Also:

That figure doesn't factor in future PFI payments - lively to be around
1/3 of public sector debt at today's prices. (Although in fairness
that'll include provision of some services, and the bones of what's left
at the end of the contract)

In certain circumstances, such as council housing, the bulk of the debt
servicing is covered by income.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 05/05/14 19:44, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Colin Bignell

If I give em 28 grand, do I get off all taxes for life?


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.
Borrowing money is barking mad.
There are too many parasites in this country living off of other's backs.

On 05/05/2014 19:44, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.


How much is of this is mortgages on property and how much on credit
cards paid off in full when the bill comes in?



--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

RJH wrote:

Nightjar wrote:

harryagain wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

That figure doesn't factor in future PFI payments - lively to be around
1/3 of public sector debt

If you click on the "more" button, they show PFI and other future
obligations in relation to actual debt. PFI and nuclear decommissioning
pale in comparison to bank bail-outs.

On 05/05/2014 19:53, alan wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:44, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.


How much is of this is mortgages on property and how much on credit
cards paid off in full when the bill comes in?



Naturally, most of it is in mortgages. This is the article I took the
figures from:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25152556

The fact that debt exists does not mean that it is problem debt, either
personal or government debt.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 05 May 2014 19:53:47 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.

Ever?

You've never had a credit card? Or an overdraft? Even for a day? You've
never had a mortgage? Or bought anything on 28-day terms? You've always
paid tradesmen either up front or immediately on completion of the work?

BartC wrote
Nightjar wrote
harryagain wrote

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Who do they owe it to?

Mostly who their house is mortgaged to etc.

It can't be to each other,

Yeah, that's a pretty small part of the total
personal debt in any modern first world country.

because otherwise the average net worth (and debt) of everyone would be
£0.

In message , Nightjar
writes
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Colin Bignell
Which is scant consolation.
--
bert

harryagain wrote
Nightjar wrote
harryagain wrote

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.
Borrowing money is barking mad.

Not necessarily. When I was building the house, I was earning
a lot more with the money I had in the stockmarket than I had
to pay to borrow for the materials to build the house with, so
it was a complete no brainer to borrow for that.

There are too many parasites in this country living off of other's backs.

Corse you don’t do anything like that with your solar panels, eh ?

On 05/05/2014 19:56, Huge wrote:
On 2014-05-05, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their government.

Not this individual. My personal debt; zero.

As I use credit and charge cards, which are paid off every month, mine
will probably average a few hundred pounds.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 5 May 2014 19:01:14 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.


Not scary in the least, because it says:

"Our children and grandchildren will have to pay off our debts, not
us."

On that basis, WGAS? :-D

On 05/05/2014 19:53, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.
Borrowing money is barking mad...

Not necessarily. There was a period, some years ago, when I got more
interest on money I had in the UK than I paid on a mortgage in France,
so the mortgage made more sense than buying with the capital I had in
the UK.

Colin Bignell

bert ] wrote
Nightjar wrote
harryagain wrote

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Which is scant consolation.

Don't need a consolation when its something
useful like a house mortgage etc.

Tho its certainly mad what has happened to
house prices right thruout the entire modern
first world in say the last 40-50 years.

On 05/05/2014 19:56, Huge wrote:
On 2014-05-05, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their government.

Not this individual. My personal debt; zero.



I assume you have no credit cards. Even if you pay off the full amount
every time the bill comes in the figure you pay ff will be included in
the debt figures. I tend to use my card to pay for most things and
clear off the "debt" once a month.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Mon, 05 May 2014 22:08:37 +0200, Cursitor Doom
wrote:


"Our children and grandchildren will have to pay off our debts, not
us."


Seriously, though, what if the children and grandchildren twig at some
stage that someone else has signed them up to all this debt without
their consent and so consequently they're not liable to pick up the
tab?

harryagain scribbled...


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.
Borrowing money is barking mad.
There are too many parasites in this country living off of other's backs.


You must live here

http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=4340

"alan" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:56, Huge wrote:
On 2014-05-05, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Not this individual. My personal debt; zero.



I assume you have no credit cards.

I do, but only use them as a backup for the
debit cards with the main transaction accounts.

Even if you pay off the full amount every time the bill comes in the
figure you pay ff will be included in the debt figures. I tend to use my
card to pay for most things and clear off the "debt" once a month.

I use the debit card to pay for almost everything
except the garage/yard sale purchases and the
farmer's market and stuff like that. Only use the
credit card when I have managed to forget to
top up the float that the debit card uses and
get a transaction declined for that reason.

Cursitor Doom wrote
Cursitor Doom wrote

"Our children and grandchildren will have to pay off our debts, not us."

Seriously, though, what if the children and grandchildren twig at some
stage that someone else has signed them up to all this debt without
their consent and so consequently they're not liable to pick up the tab?

They don't get to do that with national debt, they get to wear it
regardless.

Particularly when the clowns are allowed to completely implode
much of the world financial system, AGAIN, and the national debt
is so high that there is no alternative to printing money to ensure
that we don't end up with another great depression or worse.

"alan" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:56, Huge wrote:
On 2014-05-05, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Not this individual. My personal debt; zero.



I assume you have no credit cards. Even if you pay off the full amount
every time the bill comes in the figure you pay ff will be included in the
debt figures. I tend to use my card to pay for most things and clear off
the "debt" once a month.

I agree with Huge, never had a credit card, if I don't have the cash I can't
afford it cept for things like zero % finance. I believe you can get some
form of buyers insurance with certain cards, could be useful.

On 05/05/2014 22:23, Jabba wrote:
harryagain scribbled...


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.
Borrowing money is barking mad.
There are too many parasites in this country living off of other's backs.


You must live here

http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=4340

Na, harry's place does not have the charm ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 May 2014 19:53:47 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.

Ever?

You've never had a credit card? Or an overdraft? Even for a day? You've
never had a mortgage? Or bought anything on 28-day terms? You've always
paid tradesmen either up front or immediately on completion of the work?

Exactly.
Oh I never have any "tradesmen" either. If there are any left.
Debt is the cause of most poverty.
A case of shooting oneself in the foot.

People are so thick now they can't even work out whether they can afford a
mortgage apparently.
No wonder they end up in the ****.
You sound like you might be one of them?
I expect most of them are socialists, (the thicker class in our society).
I wonder if you have to be thick to be a soclialist?
Or is it socialism makes you thick?

And then they wonder why the rich get richer.

On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.


Harry, this is a DIY group. FFS stop clogging it up with politics!!!!!

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...
harryagain scribbled...


"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.
Borrowing money is barking mad.
There are too many parasites in this country living off of other's backs.


You must live here

http://www.readersheds.co.uk/share.cfm?SHARESHED=4340

No, I had a five bedroom house with 25 acres of ground until I downsized ten
years ago.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:53, alan wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:44, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.


How much is of this is mortgages on property and how much on credit
cards paid off in full when the bill comes in?



Naturally, most of it is in mortgages. This is the article I took the
figures from:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25152556

The fact that debt exists does not mean that it is problem debt, either
personal or government debt.


A lot of it WILL be a problem when interest rates go up.

Does that take into account everything we are owed as well?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harryagain" wrote in message
...
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

On Mon, 05 May 2014 22:34:41 +0200, Cursitor Doom wrote:

"Our children and grandchildren will have to pay off our debts, not us."

Seriously, though, what if the children and grandchildren twig at some
stage that someone else has signed them up to all this debt without
their consent and so consequently they're not liable to pick up the tab?

Nothing new there. We've only very recently stopped paying off our
parents and grandparents debt from WW2.

On Tue, 06 May 2014 07:29:16 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

Well I don't owe anyone anything.
Or ever have.

Ever?

You've never had a credit card? Or an overdraft? Even for a day? You've
never had a mortgage? Or bought anything on 28-day terms? You've always
paid tradesmen either up front or immediately on completion of the
work?

Exactly.

You're either a liar or a fool. Or both.

Debt is the cause of most poverty.
A case of shooting oneself in the foot.

Another one who can't figure the difference between debt and unmanageable
debt.

On 05/05/2014 19:59, Andy Burns wrote:
RJH wrote:

Nightjar wrote:

harryagain wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.

That figure doesn't factor in future PFI payments - lively to be around
1/3 of public sector debt

If you click on the "more" button, they show PFI and other future
obligations in relation to actual debt. PFI and nuclear decommissioning
pale in comparison to bank bail-outs.


That, I'm pretty sure, is the figure for annual payments - not the total
debt. Total debt at today's prices - tricky to estimate because of NPV,
future assets and service calculations - is at least £200B:

http://www.if.org.uk/archives/3453/n...-on-nhs-trusts

--
Cheers, Rob

On 06/05/2014 07:40, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/2014 19:53, alan wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:44, Nightjar wrote:
On 05/05/2014 19:01, harryagain wrote:
http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.

To put it in perspective, personal debt in the UK is around £1.43
trillion, or £28,489 per person. Individuals owe more than their
government.


How much is of this is mortgages on property and how much on credit
cards paid off in full when the bill comes in?



Naturally, most of it is in mortgages. This is the article I took the
figures from:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25152556

The fact that debt exists does not mean that it is problem debt, either
personal or government debt.


A lot of it WILL be a problem when interest rates go up.

The people who are likely to have problem debts are probably already
paying huge interest rates through taking out pay day loans and buying
goods through weekly payment retailers.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 06 May 2014 09:35:04 +0100, Nightjar wrote:

A lot of it WILL be a problem when interest rates go up.

The people who are likely to have problem debts are probably already
paying huge interest rates through taking out pay day loans and buying
goods through weekly payment retailers.

Indeed. 0.5% bank base rate is **** all relevance to somebody paying Wonga
5,800% APR or even Brighthouse 70% APR on something already overpriced.

Lumping that in with a low LTV mortgage just demonstrates how meaningless
the consolidated figures actually are - and how little the people who
fail to understand the difference actually understand the issues.
ESPECIALLY now that the MMR rules have come in for new mortgages.

On Mon, 5 May 2014 19:01:14 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.



Getting excited about watching the debt go up is pretty meaningless
unless compared against watching a similar clock showing assets.


--
AnthonyL

On Tue, 06 May 2014 11:38:55 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

On Mon, 5 May 2014 19:01:14 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.



Getting excited about watching the debt go up is pretty meaningless
unless compared against watching a similar clock showing assets.

And the effects of inflation!

On 06/05/2014 13:22, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 06 May 2014 11:38:55 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)
wrote:

On Mon, 5 May 2014 19:01:14 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

http://debt-clock.org/
Bit scary to watch this one.



Getting excited about watching the debt go up is pretty meaningless
unless compared against watching a similar clock showing assets.

And the effects of inflation!

Another way to look at any country's debt is to compare it with what it
is owed. This shows a simplified version of the web in the Eurozone and USA.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

2010 figures, there are no doubt more up-to-date figures available.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 14:00:34 UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:
On 06/05/2014 13:22, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 06 May 2014 11:38:55 GMT, lid (AnthonyL)

wrote:



On Mon, 5 May 2014 19:01:14 +0100, "harryagain"

wrote:



http://debt-clock.org/

Bit scary to watch this one.







Getting excited about watching the debt go up is pretty meaningless

unless compared against watching a similar clock showing assets.



And the effects of inflation!



Another way to look at any country's debt is to compare it with what it

is owed. This shows a simplified version of the web in the Eurozone and USA.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696



Not sure if I'm reading this rigtht but it seems we owe Germany 379
andn germany owe us 141 so do we owe Germany 'only' 238 ?

Or does each country have to owe other countries money so the bankers make a profit on lending each other monies they don't really need to borrow ?
So thte middle men can keep their heads in the trough.

On Tue, 06 May 2014 06:28:37 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696

Not sure if I'm reading this rigtht but it seems we owe Germany 379 andn
germany owe us 141 so do we owe Germany 'only' 238 ?

Yep.

The US/UK is interesting.
We owe them ‚¬580bn, they owe us ‚¬835bn... So we're "ahead" by ‚¬250bn
there. Which balances out Germany/UK.

We're slightly ahead with France, Ireland, about ‚¬50bn up (one-way only)
with Italy, slightly down with Japan - but about ‚¬250bn down with Spain...

Or does each country have to owe other countries money so the bankers
make a profit on lending each other monies they don't really need to
borrow ?
So thte middle men can keep their heads in the trough.

You have a current account and a credit card with the same bank. Your
credit card has £1410 balance, your current account has £3,790 in it.

Or, p'raps, a better way of looking at it is that one of your customers
is also one of your suppliers. You're both on credit terms with each
other. Who owes who how much?

On Tue, 6 May 2014 06:28:37 -0700 (PDT), whisky-dave
wrote:

Not sure if I'm reading this rigtht but it seems we owe Germany 379
andn germany owe us 141 so do we owe Germany 'only' 238 ?

Or does each country have to owe other countries money so the bankers make a profit on lending each other monies they don't really need to borrow ?
So thte middle men can keep their heads in the trough.

The US owes Germany several hundred tonnes of gold bullion, but it
ain't going to get it back.