So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 23/12/14 17:17, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

You couldn't make it up. Except they have been making it up, all along,
really.



--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the theatre.
LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and the amateur
side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the pro side could
well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer where there has been
a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are still using good quality
halogen units.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 5:46:51 PM UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the theatre.
LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and the amateur
side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the pro side could
well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer where there has been
a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are still using good quality
halogen units.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

LED isn`t ready entirely for theatre , brightness and colour rendering are 2 issues that spring to mind nevermind cost, from someone who`s living is in LED lighting for entertainment.

http://www.luxreview.com/news/547/li...halogen-report

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

Typical EU attitude -ban them rather than let market forces make them
obsolete. They are just about as expensive to run as old incandescents.
As led prices drop people will switch away from halogen - and cfls too,
I've recently bought 3 "60w" leds to replace 2x cfls and one tungsten.
Instant light and brighter both types. Paid about £7 each and they are
only 9.6 watt compared to the cfl 12w
--
bert

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.


I have several LED lamps.
Bayonet cap, they are indistinguishable in light or appearance to
incandescents.
Come on full brightness instantly.
Only nine watts instead of sixty.
They seem brighter than sixties to me.
£9 each from B&Q

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre.
LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and the
amateur
side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the pro side could
well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer where there has been
a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are still using good quality
halogen units.

You need a near point source of light to get a focussed beam.
So LEDs wil never be any good for spotlights.
Just as they are useless in a torch.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2014 19:02:09 +0000, bert wrote:

I've recently bought 3 "60w" leds to replace 2x cfls and one tungsten..
Instant light and brighter both types. Paid about £7 each and they are
only 9.6 watt compared to the cfl 12w

Cost of CFL say £2 so you have £5 to recover from saved electricity
at 0.0024 kWhr. £5 buys about 40 kWhr so those LEDs have to last at
least 40 / 0.0024 = 16,000+ hours...

I'm not buying LED routinely until they are below a fiver. If I come
across one of suitable output and fitting at that price point via an
offer or clearance I might buy.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote
bert wrote

I've recently bought 3 "60w" leds to replace 2x cfls and one tungsten.
Instant light and brighter both types. Paid about £7 each and they are
only 9.6 watt compared to the cfl 12w

Cost of CFL say £2

Never had to pay for one myself. The local supply authority
was actually stupid enough to hand them out for free when
they had been out for a while and I haven't ever had any of
those fail and still have some boxes of them unused.

so you have £5 to recover from saved electricity at 0.0024
kWhr. £5 buys about 40 kWhr so those LEDs have to last at
least 40 / 0.0024 = 16,000+ hours...

The economics is utterly obscene in my case, essentially
because I use long tube fluoros for the lights that get
used much and only use the cfl for the bed head light
which only gets used for a small amount of time per day.
I don't even read in bed anymore.

I'm not buying LED routinely until they are below a fiver.

I doubt I ever will at any price.

If I come across one of suitable output and fitting at
that price point via an offer or clearance I might buy.

I doubt I will.

In article , harryagain
wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part of the EU's
long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps. A lot of the original
push for this came from the EU lighting industry which was keen to
move people to more profitable products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting industry
wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming that LEDs will not
be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU lighting
industry is going to see its profits plummet. People won't pay the
higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED lamps, still expecting
lamps to cost £1 regardless of the efficiency or lifetime
expectations. This means the market will go to China. Furthermore, the
life of LED lamps by then is expected to be 20 years, so the product
volume will be vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market
is still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see that
vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own LED
products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going ahead with the
halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so hard for 10 years earlier.

There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre. LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive
and the amateur side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from
the pro side could well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this
summer where there has been a multi-million pound refurbishment, but
they are still using good quality halogen units.

You need a near point source of light to get a focussed beam. So LEDs
wil never be any good for spotlights. Just as they are useless in a
torch.

LED spotlights do exist - at a price

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 7:27:51 PM UTC, harry wrote:
"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre.
LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and the
amateur
side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the pro side could
well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer where there has been
a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are still using good quality
halogen units.

You need a near point source of light to get a focussed beam.
So LEDs wil never be any good for spotlights.

There are a few , ETC make the S4 in a couple of LED variants, cost is in line with bleeding edge technology, brightness isn`t in proportion to cost.

There are some terrible attempts around as well.

Just as they are useless in a torch.

LEDs win completely on every level against incandescent for torches.

In article ,
charles wrote:
There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre. LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and
the amateur side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the
pro side could well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer
where there has been a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are
still using good quality halogen units.

Well, yes. There's rather more to lighting in general than how much it
costs in electricity or how long a bubble lasts.

I tend to think of it in that way at home too. The couple of hundred quid
a year I *might* save by changing to the various low energy types simply
isn't worth it for the less attractive lighting.

--
*If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:
I have several LED lamps.
Bayonet cap, they are indistinguishable in light or appearance to
incandescents.

Think that is missing 'to you'. I've yet to see any LED that gets close to
matching the light quality of a decent halogen.

--
*Velcro - what a rip off!*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/12/14 00:15, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 7:27:51 PM UTC, harry wrote:

Just as they are useless in a torch.

LEDs win completely on every level against incandescent for torches.


I should say.

I put one of these in a 15 year old 4D cell maglite 3 years ago.

It makes the old bulb look like a candle and the light quality is way
better colour wise. The batteries now also last more than a few weeks of
regular use.

I gave my daughter a genuine LED 2AA maglite. Initially it was dodgy -
but stretching the battery spring a few mm seems to have fixed that. As
a light, it also works incredibly well and way surpasses the torches of
the 1970s.

Ah yes, the changing face of markets. I never have used Halogen. The only
time I did they all blew in about 4 months. The light is very weird, being
kind of blueyellw to my dodgy eyes at the time.

The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until you
log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet connected
light bulbs. Support you poor lighting company now.
Of course what will in fact happen will be that the EU will get its leds
made in china or Africa or wherever its cheapest to do so.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
So, all halogen lamps are due to be banned in 2016 as part
of the EU's long schedule to move to energy efficient lamps.
A lot of the original push for this came from the EU lighting
industry which was keen to move people to more profitable
products.

Well, it seems the EU lighting industry is changing it's mind,
although the EU isn't changing it's mind as yet. The lighting
industry wants the halogen ban pushed back to 2020, claiming
that LEDs will not be ready by 2016.

Lighting market experts are claiming this is because the EU
lighting industry is going to see its profits plummet. People
won't pay the higher prices EU manufacturers charge for LED
lamps, still expecting lamps to cost £1 regardless of the
efficiency or lifetime expectations. This means the market
will go to China. Furthermore, the life of LED lamps by then
is expected to be 20 years, so the product volume will be
vastly smaller than halogens. The halogen lamp market is
still profitable for EU lighting industry, and they will see
that vanish overnight.

So in a bizzare move which would seem to rubbish their own
LED products, they are are now trying to stop the EU going
ahead with the halogen ban in 2015, which they pushed so
hard for 10 years earlier.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I tend to think of it in that way at home too. The couple of hundred quid
a year I *might* save by changing to the various low energy types simply
isn't worth it for the less attractive lighting.

At the prices they charge for the these energy saving bulbs, I can't
actually see there's any monetary saving to be made.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
charles wrote:
There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre. LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and
the amateur side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the
pro side could well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer
where there has been a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are
still using good quality halogen units.

Well, yes. There's rather more to lighting in general than how much it
costs in electricity or how long a bubble lasts.

I tend to think of it in that way at home too. The couple of hundred quid
a year I *might* save by changing to the various low energy types simply
isn't worth it for the less attractive lighting.

--
*If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp? I suspect that
the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much better than an incandescent
bulb. Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear power station
uses as much energy to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 8:22:05 AM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until you
log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet connected
light bulbs.

You may jest Brian, but internet connected light bulbs were being demonstrated on QVC the other night.

Belkin Wemo Smart LED Bulb

http://www.belkin.com/uk/F7C033-Belkin/p/P-F7C033/

Owain

"Geoff Pearson" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
charles wrote:
There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre. LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive and
the amateur side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the
pro side could well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer
where there has been a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are
still using good quality halogen units.

Well, yes. There's rather more to lighting in general than how much it
costs in electricity or how long a bubble lasts.

I tend to think of it in that way at home too. The couple of hundred quid
a year I *might* save by changing to the various low energy types simply
isn't worth it for the less attractive lighting.

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp?

Its **** all.

I suspect that the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much better
than an incandescent bulb.

You're wrong.

Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear power station uses as
much energy to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

Done by fools. That clearly isnt the case with France.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 01:59:37 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 8:22:05 AM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until
you log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet
connected light bulbs.

You may jest Brian, but internet connected light bulbs were being
demonstrated on QVC the other night.

Belkin Wemo Smart LED Bulb

http://www.belkin.com/uk/F7C033-Belkin/p/P-F7C033/

Owain

quote
LED bulbs also give off less heat than traditional light bulbs, which
reduces your home's cooling costs.
/quote

but will increase you heating costs! in most places not 'blessed' with a
sanfansisco climate

Avpx



--
"I name you ... Esmeralda Margaret Note Spelling of
Lancre!"
(Carpe Jugulum)
10:05:01 up 4 days, 21:51, 6 users, load average: 0.60, 0.65, 0.64

"The Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 01:59:37 -0800, spuorgelgoog wrote:

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 8:22:05 AM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until
you log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet
connected light bulbs.

You may jest Brian, but internet connected light bulbs were being
demonstrated on QVC the other night.

Belkin Wemo Smart LED Bulb

http://www.belkin.com/uk/F7C033-Belkin/p/P-F7C033/

Owain

quote
LED bulbs also give off less heat than traditional light bulbs, which
reduces your home's cooling costs.
/quote

but will increase you heating costs! in most
places not 'blessed' with a sanfansisco climate

Not necessarily. Depends on whether you heat the house or not.

Not everyone with a non sanfansisco climate does.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Geoff Pearson" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
charles wrote:
There has been consideable pressure to keep halogen lamps from the
theatre. LED using lanterns that work are still remarkably expensive
and
the amateur side of the business which relies on 2nd hand kit from the
pro side could well have to go dark. I was at Chichester this summer
where there has been a multi-million pound refurbishment, but they are
still using good quality halogen units.

Well, yes. There's rather more to lighting in general than how much it
costs in electricity or how long a bubble lasts.

I tend to think of it in that way at home too. The couple of hundred
quid
a year I *might* save by changing to the various low energy types simply
isn't worth it for the less attractive lighting.

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp?

Its **** all.

Particularly when compared with making an incandescent bulb.

I suspect that the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much better
than an incandescent bulb.

You're wrong.

Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear power station uses as
much energy to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

Done by fools. That clearly isnt the case with France.

On 24/12/14 09:55, Geoff Pearson wrote:

Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear
power station uses as much energy to build it as it generates in its
lifetime.

That I very much doubt!

Tim Watts wrote:

Geoff Pearson wrote:

Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear power station
uses as much energy to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

That I very much doubt!

Some fag packet sums ... Hinckley C will generate 3.2GW and have an
expected life of 60 years, so ignoring shutdown periods for
refuelling/inspection etc, a lifetime output of 6 ExaJoules.

Wolfram Alpha shows that is the same as the Sun's energy that hits the
Earth in 33 seconds, or 1 billion barrels of oil.

Based on the latter, I doubt it the construction uses that much energy.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 08:22:05 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Ah yes, the changing face of markets. I never have used Halogen. The only
time I did they all blew in about 4 months. The light is very weird, being
kind of blueyellw to my dodgy eyes at the time.

The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until you
log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet connected
light bulbs. Support you poor lighting company now.
Of course what will in fact happen will be that the EU will get its leds
made in china or Africa or wherever its cheapest to do so.
Brian

Brian, I have a free flashlight app on my Blackberry which turns the
camera flash LED into a torch. It does what you have written, and
additionally wants access to my personal information. There is a
noticeable burst of 3G data activity each time I switch it on or off.

Paranoid, me?



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 24/12/2014 09:55, Geoff Pearson wrote:

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp? I suspect
that the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much better than an
incandescent bulb. Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear
power station uses as much energy to build it as it generates in its
lifetime.

That would be harry, it takes an infinite amount of energy to store the
waste forever according to harry.

On 23/12/2014 20:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:


I'm not buying LED routinely until they are below a fiver. If I come
across one of suitable output and fitting at that price point via an
offer or clearance I might buy.


I paid about £15 for one CFL, but its a lightwaveRF device with built in
dimmer. Works really well.

On 24/12/2014 00:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
I have several LED lamps.
Bayonet cap, they are indistinguishable in light or appearance to
incandescents.

Think that is missing 'to you'. I've yet to see any LED that gets close to
matching the light quality of a decent halogen.


In your opinion.
I don't like halogen much, I want something close to daylight not pale
yellow.
The way you talk I get the impression you want something like acetylene
lamps were when they were the main stage light.

Erm, why?

I suppose when every applience has this, the control of theload is moved to
whoever can get in and fiddle with the device. A whole new way to play with
the public for the kids who will no doubt delight in turning off Mr annyings
fridge while he is away.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
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wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 8:22:05 AM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until you
log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet connected
light bulbs.

You may jest Brian, but internet connected light bulbs were being
demonstrated on QVC the other night.

Belkin Wemo Smart LED Bulb

http://www.belkin.com/uk/F7C033-Belkin/p/P-F7C033/

Owain

Ah, you need a transparent faraday cage round your lamp them.
Brian

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Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
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"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 08:22:05 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Ah yes, the changing face of markets. I never have used Halogen. The only
time I did they all blew in about 4 months. The light is very weird, being
kind of blueyellw to my dodgy eyes at the time.

The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until you
log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet connected
light bulbs. Support you poor lighting company now.
Of course what will in fact happen will be that the EU will get its leds
made in china or Africa or wherever its cheapest to do so.
Brian

Brian, I have a free flashlight app on my Blackberry which turns the
camera flash LED into a torch. It does what you have written, and
additionally wants access to my personal information. There is a
noticeable burst of 3G data activity each time I switch it on or off.

Paranoid, me?



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

In article ,
"Geoff Pearson" writes:

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp? I suspect that

Tiny - the parts cost very little, and that cost includes all the
energy used to make them.

Most of the cost at the moment is profit and recouping R&D.
That means there is a lot of scope for the price to drop very
significantly, which will happen.

the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much better than an incandescent
bulb. Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear power station
uses as much energy to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

People bull**** about lots of things - it doesn't make them true.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
writes:
On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 8:22:05 AM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
The answer seems to be for them to make LEDs that stop working until you
log in and pledge the manufacturer some extra money. Internet connected
light bulbs.

You may jest Brian, but internet connected light bulbs were being demonstrated on QVC the other night.

People are adding all sorts of features to light bulbs - value-add is
seen as a potentially profitable market, whereas light bulbs themselves
will always become commodity items.

Some of these value-add features will probably catch on and be genuinely
useful, and others won't.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article . com,
Dennis@home wrote:
On 24/12/2014 00:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
harryagain wrote:
I have several LED lamps.
Bayonet cap, they are indistinguishable in light or appearance to
incandescents.

Think that is missing 'to you'. I've yet to see any LED that gets
close to matching the light quality of a decent halogen.


In your opinion. I don't like halogen much, I want something close to
daylight not pale yellow.

Ok. So define daylight. But I'd guess you think it is a constant, buy that
stupid comment.

The way you talk I get the impression you want something like acetylene
lamps were when they were the main stage light.

I want a reasonably continuous spectrum light source. Which halogen
provides.

--
*ONE NICE THING ABOUT EGOTISTS: THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/12/2014 11:29, Graham. wrote:

Brian, I have a free flashlight app on my Blackberry which turns the
camera flash LED into a torch. It does what you have written, and
additionally wants access to my personal information. There is a
noticeable burst of 3G data activity each time I switch it on or off.

Paranoid, me?




Does it download new ads when you use it?
A lot of the free stuff downloads and displays ads which get renewed
ferquently.

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 11:54:46 AM UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Geoff Pearson" writes:

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp? I suspect that

Tiny - the parts cost very little, and that cost includes all the
energy used to make them.


Like CFL`s sure embodied energy in manufacture isn`t usually fully accounted for.

Against a glass envelope with metal bits in, an LED lamp has a whole load of different materials in its source and driver, that are all made in different places and moved to be assembled.


Most of the cost at the moment is profit and recouping R&D.
That means there is a lot of scope for the price to drop very
significantly, which will happen.

the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much better than an incandescent
bulb. Remember that there are calculations that a nuclear power station
uses as much energy to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

People bull**** about lots of things - it doesn't make them true.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 24 Dec 2014, Tim Watts grunted:

On 24/12/14 00:15, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 7:27:51 PM UTC, harry wrote:

Just as they are useless in a torch.

You should try one of these babies then:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006E0QAFY

I can tell you, it's far and away the brightest torch I have ever owned;
bizzarely running on a single 1.5V rechargeable AA (which I haven't even
recharged since August, when it was fitted. It also has a variable focus
beam as well.

Only problem with it really is that sometimes it's just too bright - if
you're illuminating something very close, so much light reflects back you
can't actually see the object you're looking at!

--
David

Dennis@home wrote:

Geoff Pearson wrote:

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp?
I suspect that the lifetime energy cycle of the LED is not much
better than an incandescent bulb. Remember that there are
calculations that a nuclear power station uses as much energy
to build it as it generates in its lifetime.

That would be harry, it takes an infinite amount of energy to store
the waste forever according to harry.

Isn't the cost of doing anything "forever" infinite?

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 2:02:45 PM UTC, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:

On Wednesday, December 24, 2014 11:54:46 AM UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Geoff Pearson" writes:

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of making a LED lamp? I suspect
that

Tiny - the parts cost very little, and that cost includes all the
energy used to make them.


Like CFL`s sure embodied energy in manufacture isn`t usually fully accounted
for.

Against a glass envelope with metal bits in, an LED lamp has a whole load of
different materials in its source and driver, that are all made in different
places and moved to be assembled.

Woss that got to do with anything. The supplier isn't going to sell you
them at a loss, is he?

Its the lighting industry, home of cartels since the beginning, selling at a loss is simply one tool in the box.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel


He has to pay all the costs involved in "a whole
load of different materials that are all made in different places and
moved to be assembled".


Far Eastern economics appear to have little to do with material costs,price of CFL`s dropped below manufacture cost at some point.

--
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 12:29:15 +0000, "Dennis@home"
wrote:

On 24/12/2014 11:29, Graham. wrote:

Brian, I have a free flashlight app on my Blackberry which turns the
camera flash LED into a torch. It does what you have written, and
additionally wants access to my personal information. There is a
noticeable burst of 3G data activity each time I switch it on or off.

Paranoid, me?




Does it download new ads when you use it?
A lot of the free stuff downloads and displays ads which get renewed
ferquently.

No. I'm more worried about what it's uploading.

Crazy that the light can't be used independently of the video camera
out of the box.

--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Lobster wrote:

You should try one of these babies then:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006E0QAFY

I can tell you, it's far and away the brightest torch I have ever owned;
bizzarely running on a single 1.5V rechargeable AA (which I haven't even
recharged since August, when it was fitted. It also has a variable focus
beam as well.

I've got similar ones from China, and nowadays use them in
preference to my Maglites.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.