One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a
synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?



--
Michael Chare

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:39:12 AM UTC, Michael Chare wrote:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a
synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

Hose throbbing is caused by the remaining body of water oscillating up & down the pipe, into and out of the pump. Once it starts throbbing the machine has emptied. Unfortunately this thread will now get lots of google hits.


NT

Michael Chare wrote:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a
synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?



Virtually all w/m pump motors are ac shaded pole types. no permanent
magnets in sight. Generic replacements are cheap and usually easy to
fit. Check that the impeller is firmly fixed to the motor shaft and no
hair wound round the shaft. Noting else to go wrong really.

In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.

I had (I think it was) a CH pump which stopped working because all the
fins had corroded off the impeller. But WM/DW pumps usually have plastic
impellers of course.

In article ,
newshound writes:
I had (I think it was) a CH pump which stopped working because all the
fins had corroded off the impeller.

That's actually quite common.
Caused by cavitation rather than corrosion (and probably use of cheap alloys).

But WM/DW pumps usually have plastic impellers of course.

and don't run for anywhere near as long.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.




--
Michael Chare

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:42:52 PM UTC, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

I'd bet on the hose/drain slowing down emptying too much


NT

On 23/12/2014 12:42, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Leave it running for 10 minutes or so and if it's still ok, ie no smoke,
then the motor is fine.

Are the blades intact and run with only a small clearance to the housing.

If all the above is fine I would start blaming blocked pipework or
something else.

Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/12/2014 12:42, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've had one that just became feeble. It spun, but
with much reduced torque.

I could be wrong however. It's not like they have a lot to go wrong with
them.

Tim

On 23/12/2014 16:38, Tim+ wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/12/2014 12:42, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've had one that just became feeble. It spun, but
with much reduced torque.

I could be wrong however. It's not like they have a lot to go wrong with
them.

Tim

Tight bearings / seals from carbonate will steal torque.

newshound wrote:
On 23/12/2014 16:38, Tim+ wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/12/2014 12:42, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've had one that just became feeble. It spun, but
with much reduced torque.

I could be wrong however. It's not like they have a lot to go wrong with
them.

Tim

Tight bearings / seals from carbonate will steal torque.

It spun freely enough by hand...

Tim

On 23/12/2014 18:40, Tim+ wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 23/12/2014 16:38, Tim+ wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/12/2014 12:42, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've had one that just became feeble. It spun, but
with much reduced torque.

I could be wrong however. It's not like they have a lot to go wrong with
them.

Tim

Tight bearings / seals from carbonate will steal torque.

It spun freely enough by hand...

Tim

I eventually decided to remove the armature. This is what it looks like
after I had cleaned it, removing both crud and water. I suspect the seal
on the shaft it failing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129471430@N06/

--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 18:40, Tim+ wrote:
newshound wrote:
On 23/12/2014 16:38, Tim+ wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 23/12/2014 12:42, Michael Chare wrote:
On 23/12/2014 10:21, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDOTorgDOTuk writes:
One explanation for the problems that I am having with my 12+ years old
Hoover AE140 washing machine is that the drain pump is not working as
well as it might.

There is nothing obviously wrong with the pump in that that are no hair
grips or other dirt inside, it is not open circuit, and it does run.

The motor is quite interesting. It has a stator coil but no brushes so
the armature must be a permanent magnet. I presume that it is a

Shaded pole motor - non-synchronous low efficiency induction motor.
The armature is a lump of iron (laminated for efficiency) with a
squirrel cage of copper wire around it to form one-turn coils, and
the stator induces a matching AC magnetic field into it.

synchronous motor, and a new and old motor would therefore run at the
same speed under no load. However it could be that the permanent magnet
has deteriorated and the motor slips under load which could explain some
of the throbbing I see on the drain pipe.

Interestingly there is a clone motor available on the internet, so there
must be a market for replacement units.

Anyone else replaced a similar motor?

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it, but you haven't
actually said what is wrong.


The pump motor runs when removed from the washing machine and connected
to the mains by itself. The bearings appear OK. What I can't tell is
whether it delivers full power.

The washing machine does not empty itself properly. The water level
sensor pipe is not blocked. So maybe the fault lies with the programmer
or the sensor.

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I've had one that just became feeble. It spun, but
with much reduced torque.

I could be wrong however. It's not like they have a lot to go wrong with
them.

Tim

Tight bearings / seals from carbonate will steal torque.

It spun freely enough by hand...

Tim

I eventually decided to remove the armature. This is what it looks like
after I had cleaned it, removing both crud and water. I suspect the seal
on the shaft it failing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129471430@N06/


That looks like my pond pump. They definitely DO lose power/torque/strength
over time. Just replace it.

Tim

In article ,
Michael Chare writes:
I eventually decided to remove the armature. This is what it looks like
after I had cleaned it, removing both crud and water. I suspect the seal
on the shaft it failing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129471430@N06/

The small drain pumps don't normally have a shaft seal - the whole
armature runs in the water (and relies on the water to lubricate it).
I can't see enough detail on yours to tell if it is meant to work
like that.

The main wash pump (much larger) normally has an axial shaft seal,
and failure of that, resulting in dishwasher water running into the
motor bearings, often writes off that motor and the dishwasher.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 4:12:40 PM UTC, Fredxxx wrote:

Shaded pole motors either work or they don't. In which case they'll be
open circuit, or heat up like crazy.

Leave it running for 10 minutes or so and if it's still ok, ie no smoke,
then the motor is fine.

I've seen ones that run but run very hot, ones that jam/stall etc


NT

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
In article ,
Michael Chare writes:
I eventually decided to remove the armature. This is what it looks like
after I had cleaned it, removing both crud and water. I suspect the seal
on the shaft it failing.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129471430@N06/

The small drain pumps don't normally have a shaft seal - the whole
armature runs in the water (and relies on the water to lubricate it).
I can't see enough detail on yours to tell if it is meant to work
like that.

The main wash pump (much larger) normally has an axial shaft seal,
and failure of that, resulting in dishwasher water running into the
motor bearings, often writes off that motor and the dishwasher.

The rotor does not look quite right for a standard shaded pole motor.
Looks more like a lump of ferrite and so could be a permanent magnet.
The plastic moulding and absence of an obvious squirrel cage bars
suggests to me it could be a total immersion type rotor with the driving
coil magnetically coupled through a thin plastic cylinder to form the
water seal and yes very like small pond/water feature pumps.

I'd just replace it with a pattern part - ebay etc if you can wait for
it to arrive or pay through the nose over the counter.