A week or two ago my daughter asked me to have a look at her CH.
The heating was very intermittent. She had a Siemens thermostat in the sitting room with a wireless receiver in the airing cupboard upstairs alongside the combi. No heating.

On checking on the web I found that it was suggested that the the Siemens receiver might have a known problem with a "sticky - relay" that could be corrected with a rap of a knuckle.

This simple & temporary fix worked & I suggested that she had a word with the Co. that did her CH about 2-3 years ago to see if this is a known problem & could be subject to a warranty fix.

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" & said that since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have to replace to thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this wisdom.

He went on to say that it could be possible to "clean the relay" (see below *) but it would be better if she re-installed with Honeywell kit, which is better!

Two days ago my son called me to say that his partner's property had problems with its CH. Yes, another Siemens system installed at a similar time. Similar symptoms. Same installer/fitters.

So I replaced my daughter's kit with a Honeywell ChronoTherm system. It is now totally OK as the fitter had suggested.

Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit & could have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart. The relay is a sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it & replace, fixing it seems a bit extreme. He was talking ********, unless, of course he knew that Siemens were buying sealed relays from dusty Chinese Cos.

BTW: A neighbour had two Siemens receivers fail - allegedly due to a power outage - he has a big house with an upstairs/d9ownstairs system.

Coincidence: Possibly but it may be that Siemens is selling something that ain't fit for purpose.

Thoughts ????

naffer wrote:

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" & said
that since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have to
replace to thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this wisdom.

I'm not sure I'd pay that much for diagnosis of a fault (or confirmation of
a suspected cause) for something that should still be working only 2-3 years
after it was fitted. (And, if your daughter's had problems for a while, it
may be towards the 2-year point).

I'd be inclined to pay much less, maybe £25, and make it clear that as you
reasonably think the fitter should replace the non-working part at his
expense (and he can pursue recompense from his supplier in his own time)
that that is as far as your (or your daughter's) goodwill extends.

.... unless he's got her over a barrel for future support?

A call to the CAB or Trading Standards might be a good idea.



Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit &
could have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart.
The relay is a sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it &
replace, fixing it seems a bit extreme. He was talking ********...

and it will do no harm to pass that info on to Trading Standards...

unless, of course he knew that Siemens were buying sealed relays from
dusty Chinese Cos.

with that proviso, of course!

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

In message id, Jeremy
Nicoll - news posts writes
naffer wrote:

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" & said
that since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have to
replace to thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this wisdom.

I'm not sure I'd pay that much for diagnosis of a fault (or confirmation of
a suspected cause) for something that should still be working only 2-3 years
after it was fitted. (And, if your daughter's had problems for a while, it
may be towards the 2-year point).

I'd be inclined to pay much less, maybe £25, and make it clear that as you
reasonably think the fitter should replace the non-working part at his
expense (and he can pursue recompense from his supplier in his own time)
that that is as far as your (or your daughter's) goodwill extends.

... unless he's got her over a barrel for future support?

A call to the CAB or Trading Standards might be a good idea.



Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit &
could have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart.
The relay is a sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it &
replace, fixing it seems a bit extreme. He was talking ********...

and it will do no harm to pass that info on to Trading Standards...

unless, of course he knew that Siemens were buying sealed relays from
dusty Chinese Cos.

with that proviso, of course!

It might be worth contacting Siemens
--
bert

In article ,
naffer scribeth thus
A week or two ago my daughter asked me to have a look at her CH.
The heating was very intermittent. She had a Siemens thermostat in the sitting
room with a wireless receiver in the airing cupboard upstairs alongside the
combi. No heating.

On checking on the web I found that it was suggested that the the Siemens
receiver might have a known problem with a "sticky - relay" that could be
corrected with a rap of a knuckle.

This simple & temporary fix worked & I suggested that she had a word with the
Co. that did her CH about 2-3 years ago to see if this is a known problem &
could be subject to a warranty fix.

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" & said that
since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have to replace to
thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this wisdom.

He went on to say that it could be possible to "clean the relay" (see below *)
but it would be better if she re-installed with Honeywell kit, which is better!

Two days ago my son called me to say that his partner's property had problems
with its CH. Yes, another Siemens system installed at a similar time. Similar
symptoms. Same installer/fitters.

So I replaced my daughter's kit with a Honeywell ChronoTherm system. It is now
totally OK as the fitter had suggested.

Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit & could
have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart. The relay is a
sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it & replace, fixing it seems a
bit extreme. He was talking ********, unless, of course he knew that Siemens
were buying sealed relays from dusty Chinese Cos.

BTW: A neighbour had two Siemens receivers fail - allegedly due to a power
outage - he has a big house with an upstairs/d9ownstairs system.

Coincidence: Possibly but it may be that Siemens is selling something that
ain't fit for purpose.

Thoughts ????

This all sounds a bit ********, a sticking relay after just a couple of
years?.

And cleaning a sealed relay, whatever did he use?. Must have been a good
brand of snake oil that one. We have equipment's around that have used
sealed relays and have been on the go for years. Either thats a ****
poor make and type of relay or the contacts are arcing with no effective
arc suppression and that will be casing them to stick.

I'd send a strongly worded letter to Siemens telling them that you think
their products aren't good enough for purpose!...
--
Tony Sayer

On 15/12/2014 22:15, naffer wrote:
A week or two ago my daughter asked me to have a look at her CH.
The heating was very intermittent. She had a Siemens thermostat in the sitting room with a wireless receiver in the airing cupboard upstairs alongside the combi. No heating.

On checking on the web I found that it was suggested that the the Siemens receiver might have a known problem with a "sticky - relay" that could be corrected with a rap of a knuckle.

This simple & temporary fix worked & I suggested that she had a word with the Co. that did her CH about 2-3 years ago to see if this is a known problem & could be subject to a warranty fix.

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" & said that since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have to replace to thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this wisdom.

He went on to say that it could be possible to "clean the relay" (see below *) but it would be better if she re-installed with Honeywell kit, which is better!

Two days ago my son called me to say that his partner's property had problems with its CH. Yes, another Siemens system installed at a similar time. Similar symptoms. Same installer/fitters.

So I replaced my daughter's kit with a Honeywell ChronoTherm system. It is now totally OK as the fitter had suggested.

Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit & could have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart. The relay is a sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it & replace, fixing it seems a bit extreme. He was talking ********, unless, of course he knew that Siemens were buying sealed relays from dusty Chinese Cos.

BTW: A neighbour had two Siemens receivers fail - allegedly due to a power outage - he has a big house with an upstairs/d9ownstairs system.

Coincidence: Possibly but it may be that Siemens is selling something that ain't fit for purpose.

Thoughts ????


This?:

http://www.uk-plumbing.com/siemens-r...r-p-51291.html

Mine would lose wifi for no particular reason, and need a masonic blend
of button holds to reset. In fairness, their telephone support was
superb, but I swapped it out after a couple of fails.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:15:47 -0800 (PST), naffer
wrote:

A week or two ago my daughter asked me to have a look at her CH.
The heating was very intermittent. She had a Siemens thermostat in the sitting room with a wireless receiver in the airing cupboard upstairs alongside the combi. No heating.

On checking on the web I found that it was suggested that the the Siemens receiver might have a known problem with a "sticky - relay" that could be corrected with a rap of a knuckle.

This simple & temporary fix worked & I suggested that she had a word with the Co. that did her CH about 2-3 years ago to see if this is a known problem & could be subject to a warranty fix.

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" & said that since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have to replace to thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this wisdom.

He went on to say that it could be possible to "clean the relay" (see below *) but it would be better if she re-installed with Honeywell kit, which is better!

Two days ago my son called me to say that his partner's property had problems with its CH. Yes, another Siemens system installed at a similar time. Similar symptoms. Same installer/fitters.

So I replaced my daughter's kit with a Honeywell ChronoTherm system. It is now totally OK as the fitter had suggested.

Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit & could have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart. The relay is a sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it & replace, fixing it seems a bit extreme. He was talking ********, unless, of course he knew that Siemens were buying sealed relays from dusty Chinese Cos.

BTW: A neighbour had two Siemens receivers fail - allegedly due to a power outage - he has a big house with an upstairs/d9ownstairs system.

Coincidence: Possibly but it may be that Siemens is selling something that ain't fit for purpose.

Thoughts ????


It sounds like the relay contacts may be getting temporally welded
together because they are being asked to switch a load greater than it
was designed for, or one that is highly inductive.

Do you know what it was directly switching?

Typically, in central heating, the programmer only switches on a
motorised valve, and when the valve is fully open a microswich in the
valve switches on the pump, gas valves, fan, etc.







--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"RJH" wrote in message
...
On 15/12/2014 22:15, naffer wrote:
A week or two ago my daughter asked me to have a look at her CH.
The heating was very intermittent. She had a Siemens thermostat in the
sitting room with a wireless receiver in the airing cupboard upstairs
alongside the combi. No heating.

On checking on the web I found that it was suggested that the the Siemens
receiver might have a known problem with a "sticky - relay" that could
be corrected with a rap of a knuckle.

This simple & temporary fix worked & I suggested that she had a word with
the Co. that did her CH about 2-3 years ago to see if this is a known
problem & could be subject to a warranty fix.

The fitter called & confirmed that it was probably a "sticky relay" &
said that since Siemens don't sell the receiver unit alone he would have
to replace to thermostat & receiver. He charged over £100 for this
wisdom.

He went on to say that it could be possible to "clean the relay" (see
below *) but it would be better if she re-installed with Honeywell kit,
which is better!

Two days ago my son called me to say that his partner's property had
problems with its CH. Yes, another Siemens system installed at a similar
time. Similar symptoms. Same installer/fitters.

So I replaced my daughter's kit with a Honeywell ChronoTherm system. It
is now totally OK as the fitter had suggested.

Amused by the fitter's observation that the relay is the failing unit &
could have some dust in it, I took the failing Siemens receiver apart.
The relay is a sealed component and I suppose I could unsolder it &
replace, fixing it seems a bit extreme. He was talking ********, unless,
of course he knew that Siemens were buying sealed relays from dusty
Chinese Cos.

BTW: A neighbour had two Siemens receivers fail - allegedly due to a
power outage - he has a big house with an upstairs/d9ownstairs system.

Coincidence: Possibly but it may be that Siemens is selling something
that ain't fit for purpose.

Thoughts ????


This?:

http://www.uk-plumbing.com/siemens-r...r-p-51291.html

Mine would lose wifi for no particular reason, and need a masonic blend of
button holds to reset. In fairness, their telephone support was superb,
but I swapped it out after a couple of fails.


I was going to suggest the same model.

I have fitted hundreds of them and they are (or certainly were) a pile of
****e.

--
Adam