Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...


So - ideas please Something involving screws as I have a right angled
power driver adaptor for tight spaces...


Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

22mm plumbing clip (the sort that clip closed but can be pinged open?


To me, the plumbing clip seems a possibly nice idea as the clip and be
opened to add the next cable easily. But have I overlooked any snags
with this?

On 29/11/2014 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...


So - ideas please Something involving screws as I have a right angled
power driver adaptor for tight spaces...


Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

Yes


22mm plumbing clip (the sort that clip closed but can be pinged open?


Yes


To me, the plumbing clip seems a possibly nice idea as the clip and be
opened to add the next cable easily. But have I overlooked any snags
with this?

Drill (say) some 1/8 inch holes in adjacent joists and thread a bit of
stiff gardening wire through them, for the cables to rest (or hang) on.

Don't "bundle" ring mains together too tight, so avoid local heating.

On 29/11/14 11:30, newshound wrote:

Thank you

Don't "bundle" ring mains together too tight, so avoid local heating.

Indeed - although two legs of the same circuit won't suffer as both
cables can never be fully loaded simultaneously.

But it's not a problem as my rings are already in (and clipped
conventionally). It's merely the lighting cables left (mostly) as there
are many many cables going in.

Around the perimeter is basket tray - the power circuits are laid out
spaced, but the lighting cables will be bundled to one side. I've
estimated that for a 6A lighting circuit with star wiring from a group
of junction boxes (in a convenient location) that it be roughly
equivalent to 3-4 grouped cables at worst (there may be 20 cables but
each one is carrying a fraction of the total circuit design load).

a) Main power in
b) Switch drops
c) Load drop
d) Odd 2 way circuit so 2nd switch drop.

That's not going to be a problem with 1.5mm2 T+E

On Saturday, November 29, 2014 11:11:12 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...
Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

lengths of guttering for the cable to rest in?

Owain

Hook & loop 'velcro' cable ties/hangers?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p68911

Jim K

On 29/11/14 11:55, wrote:
On Saturday, November 29, 2014 11:11:12 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:
And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...
Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

lengths of guttering for the cable to rest in?


Bit lumpy :-o

On 29/11/14 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:

To me, the plumbing clip seems a possibly nice idea as the clip and be
opened to add the next cable easily. But have I overlooked any snags
with this?

Specifically I was thinking about these:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/snaplid-cl...k-of-100/63051

http://www.screwfix.com/p/talon-hing...ck-of-50/58742

I cannot see any snags - bearing area is about the same as a T+E clip,
no sharp edges, and the screw head is actually recessed.

The only gotcha I can see is that as the cable will likely be sitting on
the flat rather than on edge, it might be prudent to reduce the clip
spacing to maintain support - but as one clip is taking the place of
several nailed clips that's no big loss.


Anything I might have missed?

Well I'm sure there are snags as far as legally configured systems are
concerned, but I've done it in the past with cable ties and really anything
that can be used to hold wires off of joists.
No I don't have rats or mice.


Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude of
sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...


So - ideas please Something involving screws as I have a right angled
power driver adaptor for tight spaces...


Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

22mm plumbing clip (the sort that clip closed but can be pinged open?


To me, the plumbing clip seems a possibly nice idea as the clip and be
opened to add the next cable easily. But have I overlooked any snags with
this?

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude of
sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...


So - ideas please Something involving screws as I have a right angled
power driver adaptor for tight spaces...


Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

22mm plumbing clip (the sort that clip closed but can be pinged open?


To me, the plumbing clip seems a possibly nice idea as the clip and be
opened to add the next cable easily. But have I overlooked any snags with
this?

If you use three terminal (loop in/loopout ceiling rose), system there will
be no neccessity to have hugh bunches of cables.
You will only need twin and earth (brown/blue) and twin and earth
(brown/brown).
Plus three core and earth between any two way switches.
Just use tower clips, the nails are very sharp and knock in easily. No
danger of damage to the ceiling.

The only bunches will be were there are multi gang switches. (ie running
down the wall. Best done in plastic conduit where it runs down the wall.)

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...

I have put in standard cable clips using a wide opening plumbing wrench
to span the sides of the joist and squeeze the nail in. Actually, it's
probably easier than hammering them in even if you do have good access
to do so.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 29/11/2014 21:37, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...

I have put in standard cable clips using a wide opening plumbing wrench
to span the sides of the joist and squeeze the nail in. Actually, it's
probably easier than hammering them in even if you do have good access
to do so.

I found when doing square twist nails into joist hangers (probably
similar in size to a largish cable clip nail), that you could push them
in using a pry bar and a block of wood against the adjacent joist to act
as a base / fulcrum when there was not enough hammer space. (although
the side of a hammer can also drive a nail in a narrow space)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/11/2014 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

If screwed or pinned.

I often use a stable gun with long ish staples to straddle a large
releasable cable tie. You can then hang a bunch of wires safely, and
retro fit more later.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/11/14 21:37, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude
of sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied
plasterboard nails everywhere...

I have put in standard cable clips using a wide opening plumbing wrench
to span the sides of the joist and squeeze the nail in. Actually, it's
probably easier than hammering them in even if you do have good access
to do so.


That's a good idea

On 29/11/14 22:06, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/11/2014 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

If screwed or pinned.

I often use a stable gun with long ish staples to straddle a large
releasable cable tie. You can then hang a bunch of wires safely, and
retro fit more later.

I like that idea - never thought of a staple gun.

You mean one that puts big fat "U" staples in? Or just a heavy version
of what teacher used on the notice boards?

On 29/11/2014 22:53, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/11/14 22:06, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/11/2014 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

If screwed or pinned.

I often use a stable gun with long ish staples to straddle a large
releasable cable tie. You can then hang a bunch of wires safely, and
retro fit more later.

I like that idea - never thought of a staple gun.

You mean one that puts big fat "U" staples in? Or just a heavy version
of what teacher used on the notice boards?

The latter... I have a swingline one that can take staples which have
upto 14mm of pin depth to them (the normal cm or so wide). Its quite
handy for attaching cable ties to the backs of desk modesty panels etc.

a bit like :

http://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-he...aple-gun/62930

using

http://www.screwfix.com/p/tacwise-he...-of-5000/51732


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 29/11/2014 11:11, Tim Watts wrote:
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles
to switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.



Not sure if it helps with any thoughts ... in my loft space I run 4
lengths of plastic guttering ... 2 parallel runs front 2 at back ....
and that allowed me to simply lay the cables in .... VIDEO/DATA then
kept separate form mains in each 'run'

Got the guttering for nothing local BM had plenty of grubby, scratched
... old stock, they were glad to get rid of it for free.

Brian Gaff submitted this idea :
Well I'm sure there are snags as far as legally configured systems are
concerned, but I've done it in the past with cable ties and really anything
that can be used to hold wires off of joists.
No I don't have rats or mice.


Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Lighting wiring next spring - will have *many* cables running in bundles to
switch drops and the like - eg bundles of 4 will be quite common.

Some good cable runs might be between wood with 4" gap, so no space to
swing a hammer.

And I'm trying to avoid too much hammering for the ceilings sake... And
yes, supporting the cables would be preferred as there are a multitude of
sharp protrusions like broken off rusty nails and miss applied plasterboard
nails everywhere...


So - ideas please Something involving screws as I have a right angled
power driver adaptor for tight spaces...


Trunking is an obvious, if expensive and a bit OTT option.

Another - tie wrap base and tie wrap the cables?

22mm plumbing clip (the sort that clip closed but can be pinged open?


To me, the plumbing clip seems a possibly nice idea as the clip and be
opened to add the next cable easily. But have I overlooked any snags with
this?

Short bits of T&E, doubled over to make a loop, with a nail or screw
through it to form a hanger, is common practice.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk