For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

Bad idea having posts underground at all.

"MM" wrote in message
...
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

Bad idea having any part of the post under ground, it will just rot off
again.
Get one of the metal post holding devices either a spike or the concrete in
ones.
Posts last much longer

This sort of thing:-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/fence-post...ack-of-2/50094

There are various sorts/sizes.

What is the fence like? Is it solid featherboarded fence, or something with
holes in it.

I made the mistake of cementing in my posts when i did it and within five
years i had some rotteed posts as the cement around the posts makde a nice
receptacle for water s the posts shrunk.

The replacements are nw in the soil, but as I can no longer do the job, I'm
not sure how far the guy put them in.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"MM" wrote in message
...
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

MM wrote:

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

That'll work for about 2 mins before it wobbles the hole bigger again.

I go for concreting in one of the repair spurs (short concrete post)
with a wooden post bolted to it. That way, next time round, I can change
the post in 10 minutes flat.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 31/10/14 17:47, MM wrote:
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM


I had my fence replaced professionally.

The technique they used (with concrete posts, but same with wood) was:

Dig hole, as tight as possible with a post shovel (long and thin).

Drop post in and position.

Fill with *damp* (not wet) concrete mix. It should be only just damp.

Ram damp mix down whilst holding post vertical and in place.

When you've rammed it the post will stand by itself, which it will not
do if the concrete is wet.

In message , harryagain
writes

"MM" wrote in message
.. .
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

Bad idea having any part of the post under ground, it will just rot off
again.
Get one of the metal post holding devices either a spike or the concrete in
ones.
Posts last much longer

This sort of thing:-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/fence-post...ack-of-2/50094

There are various sorts/sizes.

Look also for 'Metpost'. I put up 14-panel 5' fence using Metposts in
the mid 80s, and there's no sign of it falling down yet. It saves a lot
of messing around with concreting posts in. And when the time comes to
replace them, there are pretty easy to get out.



--
Ian

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:34:42 +0000, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 31/10/14 17:47, MM wrote:
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM


I had my fence replaced professionally.

The technique they used (with concrete posts, but same with wood) was:

Dig hole, as tight as possible with a post shovel (long and thin).

Drop post in and position.

Fill with *damp* (not wet) concrete mix. It should be only just damp.

Ram damp mix down whilst holding post vertical and in place.

When you've rammed it the post will stand by itself, which it will not
do if the concrete is wet.

Lots of good suggestions in this thread. I now need to do some more
thinking, plus looking at those Metpost type thingies.

One question right now: What on earth is a post shovel? (I can
probably Google it, though...!)

Thanks all.

MM

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:55:29 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What is the fence like? Is it solid featherboarded fence, or something with
holes in it.

Solid featherboard (on neighbour's side). My side is the side with the
posts. It's a very sturdy fence. There are 40 properties here, built
ten years ago, all with the same fencing. It's just this one
particular fence post that has become loose on my fence (sod's law!)

MM

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:08:55 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 17:47:27 +0000, MM wrote:

For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM
IIRC the recommendation is that a post should be half as deep in the
ground as the fence is high. i.e. a 6ft fence should have its posts
buried 3ft deep. I find this a council of perfection and difficult to
achieve in reality, so get as near to it as you can.

Further down the thread, someone mentioned a post shovel and I've
googled and now know what it is. These shovels are not particularly
expensive, e.g. Amazon Spear & Jackson for £26.40 delivered free. So
could I achieve, say, 3ft depth with one? Are they hard graft? I'm
getting on in years and had a heart op 18 months ago. Feeling as fit
as a fiddle now, but... A post shovel looks like hard work!

MM

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:57:00 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
.. .
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

Bad idea having any part of the post under ground, it will just rot off
again.
Get one of the metal post holding devices either a spike or the concrete in
ones.
Posts last much longer

This sort of thing:-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/fence-post...ack-of-2/50094

There are various sorts/sizes.

The spike on these doesn't look very long, will it work? (I suppose it
must, otherwise they wouldn't sell any.) How much effort to bang 'em
in? I do have a sledge hammer.

(I'm a bit dubious about banging things blind into the ground willy
nilly, as I might I hit a pipe.)

MM

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:29:38 +0000, Scott M
wrote:

MM wrote:

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

That'll work for about 2 mins before it wobbles the hole bigger again.

I go for concreting in one of the repair spurs (short concrete post)
with a wooden post bolted to it. That way, next time round, I can change
the post in 10 minutes flat.

Tell me more, Scott, about these repair spurs? Are they
specifically/only meant for fixing broken posts?

By the way, suppose I find, on close inspection around the base of the
existing post, that it's NOT rotten, couldn't I just whack a load of
that postcrete stuff down and around it, while supporting the fence
for 48 hours with a couple of struts?

MM

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 06:37:38 +0000, MM wrote:

One question right now: What on earth is a post shovel? (I can
probably Google it, though...!)

I've googled it now! Cool tool, and not expensive.

MM

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:08:55 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

IIRC the recommendation is that a post should be half as deep in the
ground as the fence is high. i.e. a 6ft fence should have its posts
buried 3ft deep. I find this a council of perfection and difficult to
achieve in reality, so get as near to it as you can.

Or what about a Draper 24414 1050mm Fence Post Auger? On Amazon for
£21.24 with lots of positive reviews.

MM

On 01/11/14 06:37, MM wrote:

One question right now: What on earth is a post shovel? (I can
probably Google it, though...!)

There are several forms:

Long handle (1.5-2m or so) with a very small square shovel head, not
much bigger than a trowel.

http://www.gardengoodies.co.nz/uploa...6_i1_w400.jpeg

Double type with scissor action:


http://www.hirestation.co.uk/images/...digger_1_6.jpg

You'll generally need a 4'-6' iron breaker bar to loosen the bottom of
the hole and dislodge rocks.

You can manage without all these things (although the iron bar is
useful) but it will take longer and you may end up with a bigger hole
and thus more concrete.

On 01/11/14 07:30, MM wrote:

Further down the thread, someone mentioned a post shovel and I've
googled and now know what it is. These shovels are not particularly
expensive, e.g. Amazon Spear & Jackson for £26.40 delivered free. So
could I achieve, say, 3ft depth with one? Are they hard graft? I'm
getting on in years and had a heart op 18 months ago. Feeling as fit
as a fiddle now, but... A post shovel looks like hard work!

MM


You could hire a petrol driven post auger.

These vary from a manual type - easier if you and a mate hold each side,
both for lifting it and to counteract torque.

The bigger type are on wheels and should make the job very easy.

On 01/11/14 08:05, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:11:31 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:


Look also for 'Metpost'. I put up 14-panel 5' fence using Metposts in
the mid 80s, and there's no sign of it falling down yet. It saves a lot
of messing around with concreting posts in. And when the time comes to
replace them, there are pretty easy to get out.


I guess their life depends on where you live. I've seen 'Metpost' type
things rust away in a very few years. We live by the sea and there's a
lot of salt in the air blown in on the winter gales. Get galvanised
ones, at least, but I have little faith in galvanised anything these
days; the galvanising is never thick enough. My wooden posts set in
Postmix have lasted twelve years so far with no sign of rotting, but
as Harry suggests, I think I'd go for concrete stubs set in concrete
and bolt the wooden posts to them, next time, or even whole concrete
posts.


The other option is 2" thick angle iron. Set in concrete, leaving 18-24"
above ground.

Fix post to it with coach screws through both faces.

In message , MM
writes
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:57:00 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
. ..
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

Bad idea having any part of the post under ground, it will just rot off
again.
Get one of the metal post holding devices either a spike or the concrete in
ones.
Posts last much longer

This sort of thing:-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/fence-post...ack-of-2/50094

There are various sorts/sizes.

The spike on these doesn't look very long, will it work? (I suppose it
must, otherwise they wouldn't sell any.) How much effort to bang 'em
in? I do have a sledge hammer.

(I'm a bit dubious about banging things blind into the ground willy
nilly, as I might I hit a pipe.)

IIRC, my Metposts were about 22" long overall. When whacking them in, I
temporarily inserted a short length of old fence post, which was a slack
fit in the top end. In difficult soils (lots of stones etc) and
situations, it might be useful first to make a pilot hole using a steel
bar or pipe.
--
Ian

In message , MM
writes
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:08:55 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

IIRC the recommendation is that a post should be half as deep in the
ground as the fence is high. i.e. a 6ft fence should have its posts
buried 3ft deep. I find this a council of perfection and difficult to
achieve in reality, so get as near to it as you can.

Or what about a Draper 24414 1050mm Fence Post Auger? On Amazon for
£21.24 with lots of positive reviews.


How stoney is the ground? Not so good if it to stoney.
--
Chris French

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 07:32:52 +0000, MM wrote:



Get one of the metal post holding devices either a spike or the concrete in
ones.
Posts last much longer

This sort of thing:-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/fence-post...ack-of-2/50094

There are various sorts/sizes.

The spike on these doesn't look very long, will it work? (I suppose it
must, otherwise they wouldn't sell any.) How much effort to bang 'em
in? I do have a sledge hammer.


You need to protect the metpost metal work as you drive it otherwise
the socket lip gets distorted. Short length of timber off a post
will work for a couple but will soon get damaged. Tools for the job
are available. eg.
http://www.gardenandbuilding.co.uk/m...ol-18390-p.asp

I have had mixed success with metposts in chalky stony ground finding
that the spike gets diverted easily which makes getting a vertical
post akward, upon removing and trying again the spikes were found too
be bent . My mother had a bolted to concrete one which got fractured
by the fencing rocking back and forth in a windy location, installed
by the house builder I would not have used one it that locatiion and
it has since been replaced. Where there is a large wind loading I
don't think the sockets are deep enough for tall posts and would want
someting holding more than about 12 to 15 inches of post.

G.Harman

On 01/11/2014 07:26, MM wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:55:29 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What is the fence like? Is it solid featherboarded fence, or something with
holes in it.

Solid featherboard (on neighbour's side). My side is the side with the
posts. It's a very sturdy fence. There are 40 properties here, built
ten years ago, all with the same fencing. It's just this one
particular fence post that has become loose on my fence (sod's law!)

MM

You can try the quick fix.. squirt some foam down the hole.

You can dig a hole next to the post and fit a concrete spur to make it
last for the next 100 years or so.

MM wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 20:29:38 +0000, Scott M
wrote:

I go for concreting in one of the repair spurs (short concrete post)
with a wooden post bolted to it. That way, next time round, I can change
the post in 10 minutes flat.

Tell me more, Scott, about these repair spurs? Are they
specifically/only meant for fixing broken posts?

These things:

http://www.gardencarpenter.co.uk/sit...20310-1122.jpg

About 80/100cm long, about 1/3 buried in the ground.

Available at Wickes & B&Q - one does shorter square ones, the other
longer and more rectangular. I mention this as, in doing a corner with
the two other gardens being 2 foot lower, I wanted a deeper hole for
greater stability.

I had one post rot off at the base so it was only held up by the panels
either side. Without detaching the panels, I dug down, managed to break
up the concrete my side of things, drop a spur in, attached it to the
post, and postcreted it back in place.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

I had my fence replaced professionally.

The technique they used (with concrete posts, but same with wood) was:

Dig hole, as tight as possible with a post shovel (long and thin).

Drop post in and position.

Fill with *damp* (not wet) concrete mix. It should be only just damp.

Ram damp mix down whilst holding post vertical and in place.

When you've rammed it the post will stand by itself, which it will not
do if the concrete is wet.

+1 to all that.
Also worth mentioning the approach of using a very weak cement/gravel
mix. Strong enough to keep the post upright but weak enough to break up
when it needs replacing

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 08:05:21 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:11:31 +0000, Ian Jackson
wrote:


Look also for 'Metpost'. I put up 14-panel 5' fence using Metposts in
the mid 80s, and there's no sign of it falling down yet. It saves a lot
of messing around with concreting posts in. And when the time comes to
replace them, there are pretty easy to get out.


I guess their life depends on where you live. I've seen 'Metpost' type
things rust away in a very few years. We live by the sea and there's a
lot of salt in the air blown in on the winter gales. Get galvanised
ones, at least, but I have little faith in galvanised anything these
days; the galvanising is never thick enough. My wooden posts set in
Postmix have lasted twelve years so far with no sign of rotting, but
as Harry suggests, I think I'd go for concrete stubs set in concrete
and bolt the wooden posts to them, next time, or even whole concrete
posts.

Okay, now for an update since this morning:
First, I test-dug a hole a little way from the fence (I can always
fill it in later). Given that this is Lincolnshire Fen soil, it seems
~very~ easy to work with. Compacted, certainly, but just a bit of
thrusting with the chisel end of a crowbar loosened the top inch. Then
I "dug" out the loose soil with a Dutch hoe (the flat kind). I was
able to get down to about 6 inches in no time at all. Deeper than that
is really not possible with the hoe, so I've ordered a post shovel
(see below).

Then I went shopping and popped into a DIY place in Spalding (Andrews,
in case anyone is interested) and had a look around. They had quite a
wide range of posts and Metposts. The Metposts come in at least three
different varieties: Traditional spike; concrete in place (not a
spike, but an extension of about a foot below the "box" for the post);
and bolt-down ones (flat plate with a hole at each corner and
post-holding "box" welded thereto).

So again I have lots of food for thought, and in the meantime I
ordered one of those Spear & Jackson post-shovels from Amazon. I
reckon I can get down to the required 3 feet using the crowbar and the
shovel, possibly also sticking my hand down and scraping out the soil
if necessary. Actually, if I used one of those concrete-in Metpost
stubs, I would need to go down as far as 3 feet.

It might seem a bit excessive buying a 27 quid tool just for one post,
but I'm sure it'll come in handy for other jobs. For instance,
installing a sturdy washing line, or fixing a wooden bench to the lawn
to stop would-be thieves.

MM

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:01:16 +0000, "Dennis@home"
wrote:

On 01/11/2014 07:26, MM wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:55:29 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What is the fence like? Is it solid featherboarded fence, or something with
holes in it.

Solid featherboard (on neighbour's side). My side is the side with the
posts. It's a very sturdy fence. There are 40 properties here, built
ten years ago, all with the same fencing. It's just this one
particular fence post that has become loose on my fence (sod's law!)

MM

You can try the quick fix.. squirt some foam down the hole.

You can dig a hole next to the post and fit a concrete spur to make it
last for the next 100 years or so.

Yep! I thought of that one, too! (Well, not the foam. Did you mean the
expanding foam? But the concrete spur idea sounds good.)

Actually on closer inspection this morning I am more than ever
convinced that the post ISN'T rotted away, but is has just worked
loose due to (a) it's a rather long stretch of fence with just this
one post (the next post along is roughly 8 feet away), and (b) here in
the Fens it is regularly very windy, so that fences are always being
thrust back and forth.

I went round all the other fence posts (a dozen of 'em) and all the
others are as solid as on the day I moved in ten years ago.

MM

On 01/11/2014 15:06, MM wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:01:16 +0000, "Dennis@home"
wrote:

On 01/11/2014 07:26, MM wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 19:55:29 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

What is the fence like? Is it solid featherboarded fence, or something with
holes in it.

Solid featherboard (on neighbour's side). My side is the side with the
posts. It's a very sturdy fence. There are 40 properties here, built
ten years ago, all with the same fencing. It's just this one
particular fence post that has become loose on my fence (sod's law!)

MM

You can try the quick fix.. squirt some foam down the hole.

You can dig a hole next to the post and fit a concrete spur to make it
last for the next 100 years or so.

Yep! I thought of that one, too! (Well, not the foam. Did you mean the
expanding foam? But the concrete spur idea sounds good.)

Actually on closer inspection this morning I am more than ever
convinced that the post ISN'T rotted away, but is has just worked
loose due to (a) it's a rather long stretch of fence with just this
one post (the next post along is roughly 8 feet away), and (b) here in
the Fens it is regularly very windy, so that fences are always being
thrust back and forth.

I went round all the other fence posts (a dozen of 'em) and all the
others are as solid as on the day I moved in ten years ago.

MM



One of the most effective "tools" I've used was a 4 foot length of steel
pipe. It's something you can whack with a club hammer from a standing
position and move back and forth to loosen the soil

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 17:47:27 +0000, MM wrote:

For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM
IIRC the recommendation is that a post should be half as deep in the
ground as the fence is high. i.e. a 6ft fence should have its posts
buried 3ft deep. I find this a council of perfection and difficult to
achieve in reality, so get as near to it as you can.

As for concreting, use postcrete^ or postmix*. This is a dry concrete
mix, that you just pour as powder into the hole around the post, tamp
and shake it down to compact it a bit, then water it well with a hose
or watering can. It sets firm in a few minutes. It's a good idea to
have the concrete coming up a bit proud of the surrounding earth, by
an inch or so, and finishing off the top surface with a trowel so that
rain water runs off, away from the post. This helps keep the post from
getting too wet and rotting.
^ http://tinyurl.com/kc8jz2b
* http://tinyurl.com/mroklw8

Makes more sense to use galvanised steel posts IMO.

On 31/10/2014 20:29, Scott M wrote:
I go for concreting in one of the repair spurs (short concrete post)
with a wooden post bolted to it. That way, next time round, I can change
the post in 10 minutes flat.

me too

I've got to replace a fence here some time. Fortunately the PO did
exactly that, so all I have to do is hacksaw off a couple of bolts, then
put the new fence up.

No digging required

Andy

On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:50:49 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:



I had my fence replaced professionally.

The technique they used (with concrete posts, but same with wood) was:

Dig hole, as tight as possible with a post shovel (long and thin).

Drop post in and position.

Fill with *damp* (not wet) concrete mix. It should be only just damp.

Ram damp mix down whilst holding post vertical and in place.

When you've rammed it the post will stand by itself, which it will not
do if the concrete is wet.

+1 to all that.
Also worth mentioning the approach of using a very weak cement/gravel
mix. Strong enough to keep the post upright but weak enough to break up
when it needs replacing

My post shovel arrived today already, so I can go back to the
post-fixing job tomorrow.

Re your comment about "very weak cement/gravel
mix", is the ready-mixed post-fix cement mixture in bags sold at DIY
outlets suitable?

Or should I just buy some plain cement and some gravel? What
proportion should the mix of these be, do you reckon?

MM

On 03/11/2014 17:53, MM wrote:
On Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:50:49 +0000, stuart noble
wrote:



I had my fence replaced professionally.

The technique they used (with concrete posts, but same with wood) was:

Dig hole, as tight as possible with a post shovel (long and thin).

Drop post in and position.

Fill with *damp* (not wet) concrete mix. It should be only just damp.

Ram damp mix down whilst holding post vertical and in place.

When you've rammed it the post will stand by itself, which it will not
do if the concrete is wet.

+1 to all that.
Also worth mentioning the approach of using a very weak cement/gravel
mix. Strong enough to keep the post upright but weak enough to break up
when it needs replacing

My post shovel arrived today already, so I can go back to the
post-fixing job tomorrow.

Re your comment about "very weak cement/gravel
mix", is the ready-mixed post-fix cement mixture in bags sold at DIY
outlets suitable?

Or should I just buy some plain cement and some gravel? What
proportion should the mix of these be, do you reckon?

MM


Yes, buy the cement and (fine) gravel separately. I've never used it for
posts, but it was on this group I first saw it mentioned. My guess would
be around 8 gravel: 1 cement by volume. A quick Google suggests just pea
gravel alone could work if rammed down sufficiently. Any farmers out there?

On Friday, October 31, 2014 5:47:12 PM UTC, MM wrote:
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

I have some expertise in this field both professionally and practically. Professionally, post rot at the interface between anaerobic conditions below ground and aerobic above ie at or near the ground line. There is good research evidence (Ed Baines ICST PhD thesis) that N salts wicking from ground water to just above the ground level (evaporation) enhances the decay. Practically speaking, the best solution I have found is to put in a concrete spur (OK it looks sh*t ) and bolt the old post to it. If you do not like that and insist on timber then use an auger alongside the existing post and bolt or screw to it but cover the post you are putting in in bitumen paint then polythene up to just above ground level and make sure the polythene top is mastic covered to prevent rain coming in. this will protect against fungi and water to a certain extent. If you drypack the hole with waterproofed concrete (2"all round including the bottom) that will help enormously. It is critical not to cut the preserved envelope of wood at the bottom of the stake by sharpening it or the like.

On 04/11/14 10:23, stuart noble wrote:

Yes, buy the cement and (fine) gravel separately. I've never used it for
posts, but it was on this group I first saw it mentioned. My guess would
be around 8 gravel: 1 cement by volume. A quick Google suggests just pea
gravel alone could work if rammed down sufficiently. Any farmers out there?

You'll want some sand too.

Something like a 1:3:6 of cement:sharp-sand:shingle
should do it - be fairly weak if it needs to be broken out in future...

That's a C7.5 mix ^

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 18:57:00 -0000, "harryagain"
wrote:


"MM" wrote in message
. ..
For a couple of years the back fence (8 ft high) has been getting
increasingly wobbly in the wind, as one of the fence posts is loose in
the ground and allows the fence to move in the wind. The post may
either have rotted, or maybe just the movement caused by the wind was
enough to loosen it more and more.

So I'm going to get a new, treated fence post on Saturday (from e.g.
Baytree or Andrews) and will place it near the loose post.

I plan to dig the hole for the new post using my grubber, spade,
garden fork and whatever else that comes in handy. (I also have a
crowbar.)

I won't have much room to work, because, of course, the posts are
tight up against the fence.

Now, putting the new post in: Would it be best to prop it up so that
is properly vertical, then fill around the base with concrete?

Or should I just fill the hole with the earth I removed and tamp it
down?

And how deep should the post be inserted into the ground? These are
very sturdy posts (10cm x 10cm). None of the others shows any sign of
becoming loose; just this one particular one.

MM

Bad idea having any part of the post under ground, it will just rot off
again.
Get one of the metal post holding devices either a spike or the concrete
in
ones.
Posts last much longer

This sort of thing:-
http://www.screwfix.com/p/fence-post...ack-of-2/50094

There are various sorts/sizes.

The spike on these doesn't look very long, will it work? (I suppose it
must, otherwise they wouldn't sell any.) How much effort to bang 'em
in? I do have a sledge hammer.

(I'm a bit dubious about banging things blind into the ground willy
nilly, as I might I hit a pipe.)

There is unlikely to be a pipe there.