I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs (extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

MM

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

If it's just a twin remote pump on a fused spur, then yes, you can DIY
without further ado.

Tim Watts wrote:

MM wrote:

a power shower

a twin remote pump on a fused spur

Perhaps the O/P should clarify - electric shower heating mains pressure
cold water, or electric pumped shower from existing tanks of hot and
cold water?

Even the former is do-able, but with a few more things to consider

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:21:24 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

MM

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:49:11 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

MM wrote:

a power shower

a twin remote pump on a fused spur

Perhaps the O/P should clarify - electric shower heating mains pressure
cold water, or electric pumped shower from existing tanks of hot and
cold water?

Even the former is do-able, but with a few more things to consider

I assumed the electric shower takes just a cold water feed and 240V
electricity. The cold water feed in my house is at mains pressure at
every tap, not just in the kitchen.

MM

MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

So, do you need to replace an existing electric shower?

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:09:43 +0100, MM wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:49:11 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

MM wrote:

a power shower

a twin remote pump on a fused spur

Perhaps the O/P should clarify - electric shower heating mains pressure
cold water, or electric pumped shower from existing tanks of hot and
cold water?

Even the former is do-able, but with a few more things to consider

I assumed the electric shower takes just a cold water feed and 240V
electricity. The cold water feed in my house is at mains pressure at
every tap, not just in the kitchen.

MM

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can deliver a lot of hot
water in a short time because the hot water has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the bathroom with
only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly within the white box.
This limits the flow rate to the amount of cold water you can heat using
8-9kW.

Cheers

Dave R

--
Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box

On 24/10/14 21:08, MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

MM

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/sa...-pump-2-1-bar/

I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^

I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump but there
you go...

David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can deliver a lot of hot
water in a short time because the hot water has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the bathroom with
only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly within the white box.
This limits the flow rate to the amount of cold water you can heat using
8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom' shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly what
the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a standard
electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the model name.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On 24/10/2014 18:54, MM wrote:

I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs (extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

Doing electrical work in your own home is not illegal. All that has
changed is that now electrical work comes under the scope of the
building regulations. Hence it needs to be done correctly (i.e. to
BS7671 (aka the wiring regs) or an equal euro standard). There are some
activities that are also now classed as "notifiable", meaning they need
to be done under the supervision of building control, or done by a
person authorised to "self certify" their work. Work which is notifiable
includes installing complete new circuits, changing a consumer unit, and
work extensions and alterations in a special location (bathroom/shower
room, sauna, pool house etc - but not kitchen).

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Nothing to stop you doing it yourself. Most "power showers"[1] are 12V
units where the power supply is installed outside of the shower room -
they are often designed to simply plug into a socket.

[1] i.e. the ready assembled pump and control valve in a box.

You could also install a shower pump - again outside of the bathroom -
typically near the hot water cylinder.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/10/2014 21:08, MM wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:21:24 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

It might help if you clarify what you are thinking of. A power shower is
a self contained substitute for a shower pump. It does not heat the
water, but expects to be fed with low pressure hot and cold. Its purpose
is to deliver a better flow rate in situations where there is not enough
"head" of water to do this on its own.

An electric shower (which looks much the same as a power shower), is
designed to take mains cold water and heat it on the fly to provide a
(fairly feeble) hot shower without using any stored hot water.

E.g. Power shower:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-the...e-chrome/70070

Electric shower

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-enr...te-8-5kw/52753

They look similar but do very different jobs.

Fitting an electric shower is a far more involved job if doing it from
scratch:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectric_shower

However if you already have an electric shower, then swapping it for a
new one is sometimes less difficult. Fitting from scratch would be
notifiable under part P, replacing an existing one with another of the
same power would not.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 24/10/2014 23:03, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can deliver a lot of hot
water in a short time because the hot water has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the bathroom with
only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly within the white box.
This limits the flow rate to the amount of cold water you can heat using
8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom' shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly what
the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a standard
electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the model name.

What you describe is what the makers would call a "power shower".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message id, Jeremy
Nicoll - news posts writes
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can deliver a lot of hot
water in a short time because the hot water has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the bathroom with
only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly within the white box.
This limits the flow rate to the amount of cold water you can heat using
8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom' shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly what
the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a standard
electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the model name.


We had a simialr one, made by Aquastream
--
Chris French

John Rumm wrote:

On 24/10/2014 23:03, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. ...

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom' shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly
what the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a
standard electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the
model name.

What you describe is what the makers would call a "power shower".

All the power showers I'd experienced up to the point where this thing was
installed looked, inside the bathroom, just like a normal builtin mixer
valve - ie not obviously powered at all, but had a pump somewhere else.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:04:54 +0100
Chris French wrote:

In message id,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
writes
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold
stored water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can
deliver a lot of hot water in a short time because the hot water
has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the
bathroom with only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly
within the white box. This limits the flow rate to the amount of
cold water you can heat using 8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom'
shower which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better
flow of water than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is
coming from a cylinder that's quite a long way off in the house.
The overall effect is hardly what the phrase 'power shower' conjures
up, but is far better than a standard electric shower. It's a Mira
shower, but I can't remember the model name.


We had a simialr one, made by Aquastream

There's one on the wall of my shower. It doesn't pump any more, but it
still mixes ok.

--
Davey.

On 25/10/2014 00:08, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 24/10/2014 23:03, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. ...

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom' shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly
what the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a
standard electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the
model name.

What you describe is what the makers would call a "power shower".

All the power showers I'd experienced up to the point where this thing was
installed looked, inside the bathroom, just like a normal builtin mixer
valve - ie not obviously powered at all, but had a pump somewhere else.

That's a really a pumped shower, not a power shower.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/10/2014 00:16, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:04:54 +0100
Chris French wrote:

In message id,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
writes
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold
stored water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can
deliver a lot of hot water in a short time because the hot water
has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the
bathroom with only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly
within the white box. This limits the flow rate to the amount of
cold water you can heat using 8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom'
shower which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better
flow of water than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is
coming from a cylinder that's quite a long way off in the house.
The overall effect is hardly what the phrase 'power shower' conjures
up, but is far better than a standard electric shower. It's a Mira
shower, but I can't remember the model name.


We had a simialr one, made by Aquastream

There's one on the wall of my shower. It doesn't pump any more, but it
still mixes ok.

There was an Aquilisa one fitted here when we moved in. Again the pump
was knackerd, but it mixed fine for a while. It was less keen once I
converted to mains pressure hot and cold water though ;-) It lasted
about another year before finally loosing the plot. Its replacement
detailed he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...%28retrofit%29




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:40:10 +0100
John Rumm wrote:

On 25/10/2014 00:16, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:04:54 +0100
Chris French wrote:

In message id,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
writes
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold
stored water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can
deliver a lot of hot water in a short time because the hot water
has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the
bathroom with only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly
within the white box. This limits the flow rate to the amount of
cold water you can heat using 8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom'
shower which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better
flow of water than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is
coming from a cylinder that's quite a long way off in the house.
The overall effect is hardly what the phrase 'power shower'
conjures up, but is far better than a standard electric shower.
It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the model name.


We had a simialr one, made by Aquastream

There's one on the wall of my shower. It doesn't pump any more, but
it still mixes ok.

There was an Aquilisa one fitted here when we moved in. Again the
pump was knackerd, but it mixed fine for a while. It was less keen
once I converted to mains pressure hot and cold water though ;-) It
lasted about another year before finally loosing the plot. Its
replacement detailed he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...%28retrofit%29





Thanks for that. Although I would rather install some kind of power
shower upstairs first. There is almost room for a Monsoon pump under
the bath, but getting power there is tricky, as it's miles from any
power. The nearest is the socket for the unused immersion heater, in
the airing cupboard at the far end of the bathroom. Supply pipework is
ready, it's just the power, pump, and associated shower head and piping
that needs to be worked out. Nothing is settled yet, I could use any
system that works. It is solid brick wall behind the bath where the head
will hang, so no recessing pipework into the wall.
And I will use a licensed plumber and electrician to do the work.

--
Davey.

On 25/10/2014 01:11, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:40:10 +0100
John Rumm wrote:

On 25/10/2014 00:16, Davey wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 00:04:54 +0100
Chris French wrote:

In message id,
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
writes
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold
stored water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can
deliver a lot of hot water in a short time because the hot water
has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the
bathroom with only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly
within the white box. This limits the flow rate to the amount of
cold water you can heat using 8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom'
shower which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better
flow of water than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is
coming from a cylinder that's quite a long way off in the house.
The overall effect is hardly what the phrase 'power shower'
conjures up, but is far better than a standard electric shower.
It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the model name.


We had a simialr one, made by Aquastream

There's one on the wall of my shower. It doesn't pump any more, but
it still mixes ok.

There was an Aquilisa one fitted here when we moved in. Again the
pump was knackerd, but it mixed fine for a while. It was less keen
once I converted to mains pressure hot and cold water though ;-) It
lasted about another year before finally loosing the plot. Its
replacement detailed he

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...%28retrofit%29





Thanks for that. Although I would rather install some kind of power
shower upstairs first. There is almost room for a Monsoon pump under
the bath, but getting power there is tricky, as it's miles from any

Pumps can be effective... they can also be a bit noisy (mount them on
something shock absorbing, and fixed to a concrete slab can help!).
Worth deciding if you want to pump just the shower or all the outlets.

Also worth noting that if using a powerful pump (i.e. = 2bar) you need
to think carefully about pipe runs and making sure that you have
adequate flow into the hot water cylinder. You may also need to fit a
surrey/warwix/essex flange to the cylinder to get a good hot supply from
it.

power. The nearest is the socket for the unused immersion heater, in
the airing cupboard at the far end of the bathroom. Supply pipework is
ready, it's just the power, pump, and associated shower head and piping
that needs to be worked out. Nothing is settled yet, I could use any
system that works. It is solid brick wall behind the bath where the head
will hang, so no recessing pipework into the wall.

Unvented cylinder is another option - although probably more expensive.

And I will use a licensed plumber and electrician to do the work.

Well I guess if you like doing it the hard way ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 25/10/2014 00:08, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 24/10/2014 23:03, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold
stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. ...

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom'
shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of
water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly
what the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a
standard electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the
model name.

What you describe is what the makers would call a "power shower".

All the power showers I'd experienced up to the point where this thing
was
installed looked, inside the bathroom, just like a normal builtin mixer
valve - ie not obviously powered at all, but had a pump somewhere else.

That's a really a pumped shower, not a power shower.


There are pumped electric showers.

--
Adam

On 24/10/2014 23:03, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can deliver a lot of hot
water in a short time because the hot water has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the bathroom with
only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly within the white box.
This limits the flow rate to the amount of cold water you can heat using
8-9kW.

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom' shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is hardly what
the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a standard
electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember the model name.


I have a Mira Vigour power shower
http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0

It's a white box on the wall containing a pump & takes H&C from tanks.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 24/10/2014 23:46, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/10/2014 18:54, MM wrote:

I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs (extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

Doing electrical work in your own home is not illegal. All that has
changed is that now electrical work comes under the scope of the
building regulations. Hence it needs to be done correctly (i.e. to
BS7671 (aka the wiring regs) or an equal euro standard). There are some
activities that are also now classed as "notifiable", meaning they need
to be done under the supervision of building control, or done by a
person authorised to "self certify" their work. Work which is notifiable
includes installing complete new circuits, changing a consumer unit, and
work extensions and alterations in a special location (bathroom/shower
room, sauna, pool house etc - but not kitchen).

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Nothing to stop you doing it yourself. Most "power showers"[1] are 12V
units where the power supply is installed outside of the shower room -
they are often designed to simply plug into a socket.

Mine does exactly that. An RCD socket of course.

[1] i.e. the ready assembled pump and control valve in a box.

You could also install a shower pump - again outside of the bathroom -
typically near the hot water cylinder.




--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 24 Oct 2014 20:47:05 GMT, David wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:09:43 +0100, MM wrote:

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:49:11 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

MM wrote:

a power shower

a twin remote pump on a fused spur

Perhaps the O/P should clarify - electric shower heating mains pressure
cold water, or electric pumped shower from existing tanks of hot and
cold water?

Even the former is do-able, but with a few more things to consider

I assumed the electric shower takes just a cold water feed and 240V
electricity. The cold water feed in my house is at mains pressure at
every tap, not just in the kitchen.

MM

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. This can deliver a lot of hot
water in a short time because the hot water has been heated before hand.

Electric shower (not power shower) is in a white box in the bathroom with
only a cold feed and heats the cold water directly within the white box.
This limits the flow rate to the amount of cold water you can heat using
8-9kW.

Cheers

Dave R

It's the latter kind, i.e. the white box in the bathroom. I used one
at a bed and breakfast recently and I was amazed how constant the
temperature remained. It was a Mira.

MM

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 21:15:25 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

So, do you need to replace an existing electric shower?

No, I don't have a shower (which is crazy. All new houses should come
as standard with a shower AND a bidet).

MM

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:54:33 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/10/2014 21:08, MM wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:21:24 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

It might help if you clarify what you are thinking of. A power shower is
a self contained substitute for a shower pump. It does not heat the
water, but expects to be fed with low pressure hot and cold. Its purpose
is to deliver a better flow rate in situations where there is not enough
"head" of water to do this on its own.

An electric shower (which looks much the same as a power shower), is
designed to take mains cold water and heat it on the fly to provide a
(fairly feeble) hot shower without using any stored hot water.

E.g. Power shower:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-the...e-chrome/70070

Electric shower

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-enr...te-8-5kw/52753


It's this kind I'm thinking of.



They look similar but do very different jobs.

Fitting an electric shower is a far more involved job if doing it from
scratch:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectric_shower

However if you already have an electric shower, then swapping it for a
new one is sometimes less difficult. Fitting from scratch would be
notifiable under part P, replacing an existing one with another of the
same power would not.

No, I don't have a shower yet. Only a bath. The electric shower,
should I decide to get one, will be fitted over the bath and a shower
curtain installed.

MM

MM wrote:

I don't have a shower (which is crazy. All new houses should come
as standard with a shower

Well, it would be notifiable work as it's a new circuit in a bathroom
(aka special location) have a look at some fitting instructions to see
if you'd be comfortable with extending the cold feed (presumably nearby
from bath/sink) and running a suitably sized, protected and sensible
routed cable, e.g.

http://www.free-instruction-manuals..../pa_337626.pdf

AND a bidet

I've already got an umbrella stand ...

On 24/10/2014 22:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/10/14 21:08, MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

MM

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/sa...-pump-2-1-bar/


I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^

I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump but there
you go...

http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0

I have one and its excellent.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

MM wrote
Andy Burns wrote
MM wrote

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained?
What does that white box on the wall over the bath do?

So, do you need to replace an existing electric shower?

No, I don't have a shower (which is crazy. All new
houses should come as standard with a shower

Yep, and a decent mains pressure hot water system
as well so you don't have to fart around with any
pump for the shower. It aint rocket science.

AND a bidet).

No thanks.

"MM" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:54:33 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/10/2014 21:08, MM wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:21:24 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify
the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

It might help if you clarify what you are thinking of. A power shower is
a self contained substitute for a shower pump. It does not heat the
water, but expects to be fed with low pressure hot and cold. Its purpose
is to deliver a better flow rate in situations where there is not enough
"head" of water to do this on its own.

An electric shower (which looks much the same as a power shower), is
designed to take mains cold water and heat it on the fly to provide a
(fairly feeble) hot shower without using any stored hot water.

E.g. Power shower:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-the...e-chrome/70070

Electric shower

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-enr...te-8-5kw/52753


It's this kind I'm thinking of.



They look similar but do very different jobs.

Fitting an electric shower is a far more involved job if doing it from
scratch:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectric_shower

However if you already have an electric shower, then swapping it for a
new one is sometimes less difficult. Fitting from scratch would be
notifiable under part P, replacing an existing one with another of the
same power would not.

No, I don't have a shower yet. Only a bath. The electric shower,
should I decide to get one, will be fitted over the bath and a shower
curtain installed.

Dinosaur stuff.

You should have considered that when buying the house.

No, I don't have a shower (which is crazy. All new houses should come
as standard with a shower AND a bidet).

Have you and/or your SO tried a Japanese bog with automatic opening lid,
auto-locating heated spray or jet washer (pulsed or steady), rear/"lady"
option, warm air drier etc etc?

PS
Am I right in thinking that the regs would allow one to be installed in
a loo (ie room w/o bath or shower) and powered from a socket without, on
an existing installation, even RCD protection? I'm not usually risk
averse but ...


--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

Robin wrote

No, I don't have a shower (which is crazy. All new houses
should come as standard with a shower AND a bidet).

Have you and/or your SO tried a Japanese bog with automatic
opening lid, auto-locating heated spray or jet washer (pulsed
or steady), rear/"lady" option, warm air drier etc etc?

Yep, and that aint a bidet.

PS
Am I right in thinking that the regs would allow one to be installed
in a loo (ie room w/o bath or shower) and powered from a socket
without, on an existing installation, even RCD protection?

Nope.

I'm not usually risk averse but ...

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 06:30:29 +0100
John Rumm wrote:

Pumps can be effective... they can also be a bit noisy (mount them on
something shock absorbing, and fixed to a concrete slab can help!).
Worth deciding if you want to pump just the shower or all the outlets.

Certainly no room for a slab! Just want to pump the shower. The
existing mixer tap can stay in place.

Also worth noting that if using a powerful pump (i.e. = 2bar) you
need to think carefully about pipe runs and making sure that you have
adequate flow into the hot water cylinder. You may also need to fit a
surrey/warwix/essex flange to the cylinder to get a good hot supply
from it.

The pipes from the hot and cold tanks are both 22mm, and go direct to
the bath. Flowrate doesn't appear to be a problem, filling the bath is
easy and quick, but the head available for a shower is the hard part,
the header tanks are just above the ceiling. For a shower head, there is
basically nothing there.

power. The nearest is the socket for the unused immersion heater, in
the airing cupboard at the far end of the bathroom. Supply pipework
is ready, it's just the power, pump, and associated shower head and
piping that needs to be worked out. Nothing is settled yet, I could
use any system that works. It is solid brick wall behind the bath
where the head will hang, so no recessing pipework into the wall.

Unvented cylinder is another option - although probably more
expensive.

And I will use a licensed plumber and electrician to do the work.

Well I guess if you like doing it the hard way ;-)

Back some time ago, I might have tackled it myself. Nowadays, it's
easier to let good local folks who know the ever-changing rules do it,
especially with bathroom electrics.

--
Davey.

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 19:43:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"MM" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:54:33 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/10/2014 21:08, MM wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:21:24 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify
the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

It might help if you clarify what you are thinking of. A power shower is
a self contained substitute for a shower pump. It does not heat the
water, but expects to be fed with low pressure hot and cold. Its purpose
is to deliver a better flow rate in situations where there is not enough
"head" of water to do this on its own.

An electric shower (which looks much the same as a power shower), is
designed to take mains cold water and heat it on the fly to provide a
(fairly feeble) hot shower without using any stored hot water.

E.g. Power shower:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-the...e-chrome/70070

Electric shower

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-enr...te-8-5kw/52753


It's this kind I'm thinking of.



They look similar but do very different jobs.

Fitting an electric shower is a far more involved job if doing it from
scratch:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectric_shower

However if you already have an electric shower, then swapping it for a
new one is sometimes less difficult. Fitting from scratch would be
notifiable under part P, replacing an existing one with another of the
same power would not.

No, I don't have a shower yet. Only a bath. The electric shower,
should I decide to get one, will be fitted over the bath and a shower
curtain installed.

Dinosaur stuff.

You should have considered that when buying the house.

Well, I didn't, Clever Clogs. So now I'm doing something about it.
Thank you for your contribution.

MM

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 24/10/2014 22:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/10/14 21:08, MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

MM

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/sa...-pump-2-1-bar/


I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^

I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump but there
you go...

http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0

I have one and its excellent.


That is not a pumped electric shower.

This is a pumped electric shower

http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/el...ic-shower.html



--
Adam

ARW wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^
I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump

http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0

That is not a pumped electric shower.
This is a pumped electric shower

Smaller than I might have expected, but as the O/P has mains-pressure
cold water throughout his house he doesn't want a pumped shower, just an
electric shower.

On 25/10/2014 14:37, ARW wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 24/10/2014 22:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/10/14 21:08, MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

MM

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/sa...-pump-2-1-bar/



I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^

I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump but there
you go...

http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0


I have one and its excellent.


That is not a pumped electric shower.

Never said it was :-)

It's what I would call a power shower e.g. it takes water from the cold
& hot water tanks and has an in built pump.

This is a pumped electric shower

http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/el...ic-shower.html

So thats a shower that electrically heats the water and has a pump?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 25/10/2014 13:23, MM wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 19:43:07 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



"MM" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:54:33 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

On 24/10/2014 21:08, MM wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 19:21:24 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:

On 24/10/14 18:54, MM wrote:
I can wire a plug. Before it became illegal, I put in 13A spurs

Can we please stop it with the FUD ;-

It's NOT notifiable work to add spurs - or even fully incorporated
sockets in an existing ring circuit.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...ifiable_job.3F

Even if it's "notifiable" you can still DIY - you may need to notify
the
LABC though.

(extra
sockets) in my own house. I've put in new sinks, soldered Yorkshire
fittings. I am a concientious DIY-er.

But a power shower? It needs water and power. Has to be fitted
competently so as not to endanger myself or guests (or future owners).

Is it something I should contemplate doing myself, or is this the kind
of job best left to a professional? (Who would probably not even look
at it for less than £200.)

Depends...

Will the pump be outside the bathroom (aka the "special location")?

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

It might help if you clarify what you are thinking of. A power shower is
a self contained substitute for a shower pump. It does not heat the
water, but expects to be fed with low pressure hot and cold. Its purpose
is to deliver a better flow rate in situations where there is not enough
"head" of water to do this on its own.

An electric shower (which looks much the same as a power shower), is
designed to take mains cold water and heat it on the fly to provide a
(fairly feeble) hot shower without using any stored hot water.

E.g. Power shower:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-the...e-chrome/70070

Electric shower

http://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-enr...te-8-5kw/52753


It's this kind I'm thinking of.



They look similar but do very different jobs.

Fitting an electric shower is a far more involved job if doing it from
scratch:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectric_shower

However if you already have an electric shower, then swapping it for a
new one is sometimes less difficult. Fitting from scratch would be
notifiable under part P, replacing an existing one with another of the
same power would not.

No, I don't have a shower yet. Only a bath. The electric shower,
should I decide to get one, will be fitted over the bath and a shower
curtain installed.

Dinosaur stuff.

You should have considered that when buying the house.

Well, I didn't, Clever Clogs. So now I'm doing something about it.
Thank you for your contribution.

MM

Rod is the usenet village idiot :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 25/10/2014 08:21, ARW wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 25/10/2014 00:08, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
John Rumm wrote:

On 24/10/2014 23:03, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
David wrote:

Power shower is a shower with a pump - usually has a hot and cold
stored
water feed, and a pump outside the bathroom. ...

There's a hybrid; my mum's house has a 'white box in the bathroom'
shower
which contains a small pump which helps to produce a better flow of
water
than would otherwise occur, but the hot water is coming from a
cylinder
that's quite a long way off in the house. The overall effect is
hardly
what the phrase 'power shower' conjures up, but is far better than a
standard electric shower. It's a Mira shower, but I can't remember
the
model name.

What you describe is what the makers would call a "power shower".

All the power showers I'd experienced up to the point where this
thing was
installed looked, inside the bathroom, just like a normal builtin mixer
valve - ie not obviously powered at all, but had a pump somewhere else.

That's a really a pumped shower, not a power shower.


There are pumped electric showers.

Fairly rare though it has to be said.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 25/10/2014 14:37, ARW wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
On 24/10/2014 22:18, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/10/14 21:08, MM wrote:

What pump? Aren't these things self-contained? What does that white
box on the wall over the bath do?

MM

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/sa...-pump-2-1-bar/



I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^

I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump but there
you go...

http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0


I have one and its excellent.


That is not a pumped electric shower.

Never said it was :-)

It's what I would call a power shower e.g. it takes water from the cold &
hot water tanks and has an in built pump.

This is a pumped electric shower

http://secure.tritonshowers.co.uk/el...ic-shower.html

So thats a shower that electrically heats the water and has a pump?


Yes - hence the name "pumped electric shower"

--
Adam

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
ARW wrote:

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I assumed the OP was talking about a booster ^^^
I have not come across an electric shower with inbuilt pump

http://www.mirashowers.co.uk/onlinec...r=1.1532.353.0

That is not a pumped electric shower.
This is a pumped electric shower

Smaller than I might have expected, but as the O/P has mains-pressure cold
water throughout his house he doesn't want a pumped shower, just an
electric shower.


Yes. But the cost of the 10mm T&E cable etc.

--
Adam