I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.

The bracket I'm using is this one: http://tinyurl.com/nmo7qoc (or
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00393KNV...p_o_pC_nS_ttl?
_encoding=UTF8&colid=2NW7RW4L2AW7X&coliid=I2Z85JF0 0PN585) - I've fitted one
before and it's excellent. I realise the cantilever arm isn't going to help
matters, but we need that functionality. The TV is a 42" model weighing
23kg.

Is it going to be OK? Am I worrying too much? How would TMH respond if
asked to fit this and stake his no-claims bonus on it!?

FYI as part of this refurb I'll be channelling in all the TV cables etc
into the wall, after which I'm having it professionally skimmed, which has
me thinking that this potentially offers the opportunity to hack off an
area of the old plaster and attach an intermediate, largeish plate of some
sort to the wall which the bracker could be attached to, in order to spread
the load, should this be necessary?

--
David

On 24/08/2014 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.

Don't use expansive fixings like plugs or shield anchors.

The bracket I'm using is this one: http://tinyurl.com/nmo7qoc (or
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00393KNV...p_o_pC_nS_ttl?
_encoding=UTF8&colid=2NW7RW4L2AW7X&coliid=I2Z85JF0 0PN585) - I've fitted one
before and it's excellent. I realise the cantilever arm isn't going to help
matters, but we need that functionality. The TV is a 42" model weighing
23kg.

Problem with that kind of bracket is the small area & low number of
fixing points.

Is it going to be OK? Am I worrying too much? How would TMH respond if
asked to fit this and stake his no-claims bonus on it!?

I'd use masonry bolts, then test the strength of the fixing. If all
else fails I'd use resin anchors.


FYI as part of this refurb I'll be channelling in all the TV cables etc
into the wall, after which I'm having it professionally skimmed, which has
me thinking that this potentially offers the opportunity to hack off an
area of the old plaster and attach an intermediate, largeish plate of some
sort to the wall which the bracker could be attached to, in order to spread
the load, should this be necessary?

If you are refurbing that would give you the ultimate peace of mind.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.

The bracket I'm using is this one: http://tinyurl.com/nmo7qoc (or
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00393KNV...p_o_pC_nS_ttl?
_encoding=UTF8&colid=2NW7RW4L2AW7X&coliid=I2Z85JF0 0PN585) - I've fitted one
before and it's excellent. I realise the cantilever arm isn't going to help
matters, but we need that functionality. The TV is a 42" model weighing
23kg.

Is it going to be OK? Am I worrying too much? How would TMH respond if
asked to fit this and stake his no-claims bonus on it!?

FYI as part of this refurb I'll be channelling in all the TV cables etc
into the wall, after which I'm having it professionally skimmed, which has
me thinking that this potentially offers the opportunity to hack off an
area of the old plaster and attach an intermediate, largeish plate of some
sort to the wall which the bracker could be attached to, in order to spread
the load, should this be necessary?


Me, I'm a coward. The wall may or may not have cement mortar. Unless
the wall is two story, I'd settle for a stand. The thrust forces on the
wall are going to be considerable. I don't think I'd risk it, even with
a spreader plate if it's single story.

On 24/08/2014 09:57, Lobster wrote:

FYI as part of this refurb I'll be channelling in all the TV cables etc
into the wall, after which I'm having it professionally skimmed, which has
me thinking that this potentially offers the opportunity to hack off an
area of the old plaster and attach an intermediate, largeish plate of some
sort to the wall which the bracker could be attached to, in order to spread
the load, should this be necessary?


A long time ago I worked for a company which installed CRT TVs on
cantilever brackets on a regular basis, personally I wouldn't. Even with
the relatively low mass of a modern LCD.
If you absolutely have to have the functionality then bolt the bracket
to a larger metal plate and bolt that to the brick and plaster over it.
As others have said the bracket concentrates too much force in a small
area and you want to spread that.

Another point is that if you actually use the cantilever function of the
bracket, you will find out fairly quickly how well it's been made

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
FYI as part of this refurb I'll be channelling in all the TV cables etc
into the wall, after which I'm having it professionally skimmed, which
has me thinking that this potentially offers the opportunity to hack
off an area of the old plaster and attach an intermediate, largeish
plate of some sort to the wall which the bracker could be attached to,
in order to spread the load, should this be necessary?

It would allow you to put the fixings to the bricks in the ideal place. If
you have my luck, the holes on the bracket will always be over mortar.

I had a similar problem in my kitchen. Wanted the TV on an arm so it could
be easily swivelled to point at the kitchen or breakfast room ends. Only
suitable place was mounted above the peninsula unit and to the side of the
chimney breast - and very close to the external corner. So I removed some
tiles, and fitted steel straps to the brick extending back to the internal
corner. With the bracket bolted to those. And then replaced the tiles.
Works perfectly.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/08/14 10:29, The Medway Handyman wrote:
the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick
internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.

MM. I was asked to do exactly this. During wall drilling a complete half
brick popped out and there was a 4" square hole to the outside of the house.

I finished drilling that popped out brick and banged it back in with
some strong mortar.

24 hours later a skim with some plaster and a lick of magnolia restored
the inner surface, and the TV bracket went up with three big screws in
plastic plugs and was still up when I finished the relationship with its
owner some years later.

besides this was a CRT telly. Modern LCD are nothing like so heavy.





--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick
internal wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up
to the job if just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach
bolts or whatever.

MM. I was asked to do exactly this. During wall drilling a complete half
brick popped out and there was a 4" square hole to the outside of the
house.

A single brick outside wall?

--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, 24 August 2014 09:57:27 UTC+1, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if

I'd use resin anchors. Buy some stainless steel threaded studding rod of the appropriate diameter and cut it to the right lengths. Drill hole, clean, squirt in resin, insert bolt.

Only problem is if you decide to move the bracket...

Robert

/A single brick outside wall? /q

Maybe it was Ms Whiplash's dungeon room....

Jim K

On 24/08/14 13:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick
internal wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up
to the job if just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach
bolts or whatever.

MM. I was asked to do exactly this. During wall drilling a complete half
brick popped out and there was a 4" square hole to the outside of the
house.

A single brick outside wall?


Yup.

A single brick outside wall.

Its rather common round Cambridge.

19th century and pre WWI stock is 'bijoux desirable Victorian
terrace/semi detached' and total utter rubbish.

Most were built as two up two down with an outside privy. And some had
coal cellars.
#
Fronts and back are often faced with brick, general rubble as the
doubling of the wall. The sides - and they used passage access when
rear garden access want available - is single brick.

The standard 'conversion. is a lean to bathroom and bog at the back on
the ground floor. Sometimes a second storey extension adds a third
bedroom These are nearly always single brick too.

this heap of builder **** goes for upwards of 300 grand anywhere near
the station.


--
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. €“ Erwin Knoll

On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.


I'd say if you have good bricks you are OK with something like rawlbolts.

If the bricks are soft then another option is resin anchors - I used
these to hang a cistern and a basin on a celcon block wall.

A 3rd option is to mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of
fixing points and then bolt onto that - this is a good option for
plasterboard walls where it spreads the load.

On 24/08/2014 20:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this
the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick
internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.


I'd say if you have good bricks you are OK with something like rawlbolts.

From the description I would not take the chance.


If the bricks are soft then another option is resin anchors - I used
these to hang a cistern and a basin on a celcon block wall.

Agreed; also Multi Monti's are very good, although it is important to
use the right sized pilot drill, and they like an accurate hole.
Depending on the bracket design you might be able to add extra bolts, or
alternatives if one fixing goes "bad" e.g. because of breaking into the
mortar.


A 3rd option is to mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of
fixing points and then bolt onto that - this is a good option for
plasterboard walls where it spreads the load.

Have often done that too, especially for radiators. You can chop out the
plaster and inset the plywood; you may also get away with 12 mm.

On 25 Aug 2014, newshound grunted:

On 24/08/2014 20:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this
the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that
the wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin
red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the
job if just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts
or whatever.

A 3rd option is to mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of
fixing points and then bolt onto that - this is a good option for
plasterboard walls where it spreads the load.

Have often done that too, especially for radiators. You can chop out
the plaster and inset the plywood; you may also get away with 12 mm.

Thanks for all the replies!

Does sound to me like the above solution is likely to be the safest option.

What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster
to stick to the wood (my previous experience suggests 'unlikely') Are there
any tricks? Different type of plaster over the wood, maybe?

Given that this is all behind the TV, I'm perhaps being a bit precious even
considering the aesthetics as an issue (ie, versus just insetting the
plywood more or less flush with the adjacent plaster); however the
cantlevered bracket does mean that the wall behind will indeed be visible
most of the time. And all the cables are going to be run neatly below the
wal surface, too.

--
David

On 25/08/14 12:39, Lobster wrote:
On 25 Aug 2014, newshound grunted:

On 24/08/2014 20:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this
the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that
the wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin
red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the
job if just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts
or whatever.

A 3rd option is to mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of
fixing points and then bolt onto that - this is a good option for
plasterboard walls where it spreads the load.

Have often done that too, especially for radiators. You can chop out
the plaster and inset the plywood; you may also get away with 12 mm.

Thanks for all the replies!

Does sound to me like the above solution is likely to be the safest option.

What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster
to stick to the wood (my previous experience suggests 'unlikely') Are there
any tricks? Different type of plaster over the wood, maybe?

skrim tape over the join with the wall and a thin coat of filler.

PVA the wood.

Normal finishing plaster.

That should work.

On 25/08/2014 12:39, Lobster wrote:

What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster
to stick to the wood (my previous experience suggests 'unlikely') Are there
any tricks? Different type of plaster over the wood, maybe?


Of course it depends on the depth of plaster and thickness of board, but
the obvious answer is to glue plaster board to it and plaster over as
normal.
One traditional method was to drive pan-headed nails in almost flush and
then plaster, don't like that idea though, I guess mesh would be better.

Lobster wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of fixing points
and then bolt onto that

What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster
to stick to the wood

If there's going to be a TV covering the wood+bracket, do you /need/ to
achieve a decorative finish over it?

On Monday, 25 August 2014 13:19:03 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Lobster wrote:



Tim Watts wrote:



mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of fixing points

and then bolt onto that



What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster

to stick to the wood



If there's going to be a TV covering the wood+bracket, do you /need/ to

achieve a decorative finish over it?

as he needs the cantilever I expect it will all be visible from some angles...

Jim K

Lobster wrote:

Is it going to be OK? Am I worrying too much? How would TMH respond if
asked to fit this and stake his no-claims bonus on it!?

A few years back we had the job of fixing wall brackets and large TV
sets in all the waiting rooms in a large hospital. The walls were many
and various, but some were pretty dodgy. Single leaf breeze, and
studding walls that were hollow with plasterboard faces. And some that
were the same but a system build thing, steel sheet instead of
plasterboard, covered with some sort of fabric.

We were obliged to demonstrate that each bracket when fully extended
would support the weight of an adult, the reason being that patients can
do strange things (think A & E on a Saturday night).

We used large commercial brackets, and the fixing method varied. In
extremis we fitted a stout plank (10" x 2" I think) on the other side of
the wall, from floor to ceiling. We put long, sleeved, M8 bolts through
the wall to take the bracket. A plank, faced with plastic and with
plastic corners, just looks like a pipe duct.

We have had similar jobs in prisons. In that case you have the
additional problem that people might hang themselves from the bracket.

Bill

On 25/08/2014 12:39, Lobster wrote:
On 25 Aug 2014, newshound grunted:

On 24/08/2014 20:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this
the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that
the wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin
red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the
job if just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts
or whatever.

A 3rd option is to mount a 2x2 ft bit of 18mm ply using a naumber of
fixing points and then bolt onto that - this is a good option for
plasterboard walls where it spreads the load.

Have often done that too, especially for radiators. You can chop out
the plaster and inset the plywood; you may also get away with 12 mm.

Thanks for all the replies!

Does sound to me like the above solution is likely to be the safest option.

What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster
to stick to the wood (my previous experience suggests 'unlikely') Are there
any tricks? Different type of plaster over the wood, maybe?

Given that this is all behind the TV, I'm perhaps being a bit precious even
considering the aesthetics as an issue (ie, versus just insetting the
plywood more or less flush with the adjacent plaster); however the
cantlevered bracket does mean that the wall behind will indeed be visible
most of the time. And all the cables are going to be run neatly below the
wal surface, too.


My plastering is crap, so I wouldn't bother. Put neat radii on the
corners, sand down well, paint to match the wall. You could make the
panel the same size as the backplate in which case it will barely show.

Lee wrote:
On 25/08/2014 12:39, Lobster wrote:

What would be my chances of skimming over this and persuading the plaster
to stick to the wood (my previous experience suggests 'unlikely') Are
there
any tricks? Different type of plaster over the wood, maybe?


Of course it depends on the depth of plaster and thickness of board, but
the obvious answer is to glue plaster board to it and plaster over as
normal.
One traditional method was to drive pan-headed nails in almost flush and
then plaster, don't like that idea though, I guess mesh would be better.

Chicken wire will likely work.

/newshound
On 25/08/2014 12:39, Lobster wrote:
- show quoted text -
My plastering is crap, so I wouldn't bother. Put neat radii on the
corners, sand down well, paint to match the wall. You could make the
panel the same size as the backplate in which case it will barely show.
/q

How would that spread the load?

Jim K

On 25/08/2014 20:25, JimK wrote:
/newshound
On 25/08/2014 12:39, Lobster wrote:
- show quoted text -
My plastering is crap, so I wouldn't bother. Put neat radii on the
corners, sand down well, paint to match the wall. You could make the
panel the same size as the backplate in which case it will barely show.
/q

How would that spread the load?

Jim K

Agreed, it doesn't. But I have had cases (fitting radiators on stud
walls) where the fixing screws had to be in between studs, but you could
mount the plywood perfectly solidly and then put the radiator brackets
on the plywood. I could imagine a case for a TV bracket where two of the
four holes were insecure in dodgy mortar or edges of bricks, but you
could still achieve a secure fitting for a same sized plywood panel.

In message , Bill Wright
writes

We have had similar jobs in prisons. In that case you have the
additional problem that people might hang themselves from the bracket.

Yes, you wouldn't want the bracket to fail is some thieving pikey
scumbag was doing us all a favour.
--
Graeme

newshound wrote:
On 25/08/2014 20:25, JimK wrote:
/newshound
On 25/08/2014 12:39, Lobster wrote:
- show quoted text -
My plastering is crap, so I wouldn't bother. Put neat radii on the
corners, sand down well, paint to match the wall. You could make the
panel the same size as the backplate in which case it will barely show.
/q

How would that spread the load?

Jim K

Agreed, it doesn't. But I have had cases (fitting radiators on stud
walls) where the fixing screws had to be in between studs, but you could
mount the plywood perfectly solidly and then put the radiator brackets
on the plywood. I could imagine a case for a TV bracket where two of the
four holes were insecure in dodgy mortar or edges of bricks, but you
could still achieve a secure fitting for a same sized plywood panel.

When mounting a TV wall bracket on a large plywood backplate (to spread
the load) put the fixing bolts for the wall bracket through the plywood
from the back, so the threaded end is ready to receive the bracket when
the plywood is mounted. Use large washers so the load of the bolts is
spread. Tighten with pliers on the thread and then cut the excess thread
off.

An aerosol of matt black can help. Spray your finger end, then dab paint
on the nuts and bolt ends. Wipe your finger on the customer's white
carpet. (Joke)

Bill

On Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:49:49 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever..


I'd say if you have good bricks you are OK with something like rawlbolts.

If the bricks are soft then another option is resin anchors - I used
these to hang a cistern and a basin on a celcon block wall.

Update...

I'm on the point of actioning this, and would really like a reality check please!

I ended up working out exactly where I wanted the TV bracket to go, and then hacked off all the old plaster around there, exposing the brickwork beneath. This enabled me to fine-tune the position of the bracket to maximise the number of holes in decent meaty brick; also, I was able to repair the crappy mortar between all the bricks to make the wall considerably stronger, and finally replaced the plaster with a 2'x2' square of sand-cement render over the area. Since then my plasterer has been and skimmed the whole room - looks fab! - and I've calculated the exact postions of my mounting holes for the bracket and am ready to drill.

The plan is to use 7 x M6 studs (the largest that the bracket will accept), held in place with resin. I've bought this stuff from Toolstation: OK?:
http://tinyurl.com/p5bmnlf

I'll blow out all dust from the holes, which will be as deep as possible in this single-skin brick wall.

What diameter holes should I drill in the brickwork? Any more advice?

Thanks

On 08/11/14 21:14, Lobster wrote:
On Sunday, August 24, 2014 8:49:49 PM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 24/08/14 09:57, Lobster wrote:
I'm refurbishing our living room at the moment, and as part of this the TV
is migrating from a stand to a wall bracket. Possible issue is that the
wall concerned is a 100-year-old, plastered, single-skin red-brick internal
wall, so I'm slightly concerned whether it's going to be up to the job if
just attach the bracket direct to the wall with coach bolts or whatever.


I'd say if you have good bricks you are OK with something like rawlbolts.

If the bricks are soft then another option is resin anchors - I used
these to hang a cistern and a basin on a celcon block wall.

Update...

I'm on the point of actioning this, and would really like a reality check please!

I ended up working out exactly where I wanted the TV bracket to go, and then hacked off all the old plaster around there, exposing the brickwork beneath. This enabled me to fine-tune the position of the bracket to maximise the number of holes in decent meaty brick; also, I was able to repair the crappy mortar between all the bricks to make the wall considerably stronger, and finally replaced the plaster with a 2'x2' square of sand-cement render over the area. Since then my plasterer has been and skimmed the whole room - looks fab! - and I've calculated the exact postions of my mounting holes for the bracket and am ready to drill.

The plan is to use 7 x M6 studs (the largest that the bracket will accept), held in place with resin. I've bought this stuff from Toolstation: OK?:
http://tinyurl.com/p5bmnlf

I'll blow out all dust from the holes, which will be as deep as possible in this single-skin brick wall.

What diameter holes should I drill in the brickwork? Any more advice?

Thanks


Hi,

I cannot remember exactly - it was one of the Fischer Vinyesters. I have
also user Screwfix Nononsense resin, like:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsens...in-175ml/53359

and that seemed OK too.

Beware - one or two of the Fischer cartridges are too fat (wide) for a
standard sealant gun. Never had trouble with the Scewfix unbranded.

What is important is:

Drill a reasonable hole (8mm in your case should do, but you need to be
able to get the injector right in to inject resin from the bottom of the
hole out - if necessary, drill your bracket and use M8 with 10mm holes).

The other is to clear the hole of dust.

http://www.screwfix.com/p/fischer-resin-pump/21142

but a bit of earth sleeve or similar pipe taped onto a bike pump would
do. Again you have to blow sharply from the base of the hole. Less dust,
the better the resin will bond.

M8