I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

tim

In article , tim.....
writes
I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

The last one :-)

Having a metal case does not preclude it being Class 2 (Double Insulated
- No Earth required), it just requires a reinforced or double insulation
barrier between the live parts and the metal case.

If it is Class 2 it should say so on the box/instructions and have a
double insulated symbol (concentric squares) somewhere near the elec
connections.

Not an uncommon misconception, there were union walkouts threatened when
the first double insulated oscilloscopes came out with exposed metal
parts and no earth. Picture flat capped bloke ranting about having the
exposed metal parts earth bonded . . . . .

Class 1 is the one that requires an earth.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

The daft thing of course is that things like laptop psus are double
insulated, but it seems not to preclude tickles from the outside of the plug
that goes to the laptop if you happen to be resting your hand on an earthed
item at the time.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"fred" wrote in message ...
In article , tim.....
writes
I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a
shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

The last one :-)

Having a metal case does not preclude it being Class 2 (Double Insulated -
No Earth required), it just requires a reinforced or double insulation
barrier between the live parts and the metal case.

If it is Class 2 it should say so on the box/instructions and have a
double insulated symbol (concentric squares) somewhere near the elec
connections.

Not an uncommon misconception, there were union walkouts threatened when
the first double insulated oscilloscopes came out with exposed metal parts
and no earth. Picture flat capped bloke ranting about having the exposed
metal parts earth bonded . . . . .

Class 1 is the one that requires an earth.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
The daft thing of course is that things like laptop psus are double
insulated, but it seems not to preclude tickles from the outside of the plug
that goes to the laptop if you happen to be resting your hand on an earthed
item at the time.

The output has to be coupled to something, so it doesn't act like a
radio transmitter at the switching frequency and harmonics. If there's
no earth to couple it to, it is coupled to the mains through a high-
pass capacitor. Some leakage at 50Hz is inevitable, but it's fractions
of a milliamp.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 13:20:11 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:

I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

tim



You could say the same thing about all the tin boxes under your TV.
It's unusual for those to be earthed via the mains cable.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 13:20:11 +0100, "tim....."
wrote:

I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a
shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

tim



You could say the same thing about all the tin boxes under your TV.
It's unusual for those to be earthed via the mains cable.

That's manufactured to a "standard" process.

Not connected up on site by a DIY numpty with a screwdriver.

I know it's far fetched, but the scenario that I thought this earth was
supposed to protect from is the live cable coming loose, falling out of its
connection and flapping around touching the inside part of this metal
fitting.

All it takes is someone not tighten up a screw properly, and (for the
construction in front of me) the double insulation provided needs two
failures instead of one.

IME a DIY numpty who doesn't tighten up one screw properly is likely not to
tighten any of them properly - ISTM there's a high correlation of double
failure here

tim

On 23/08/2014 13:20, tim..... wrote:
I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

Are they marked as Double insulated (square within a square logo)?

What is the IPx rating on them?


--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 23/08/2014 13:20, tim..... wrote:
I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a
shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

Are they marked as Double insulated (square within a square logo)?

Now that I've had it explained to me - they are



What is the IPx rating on them?

the what?

the label on the cover says IP23

Is that it?

tim

On 24/08/2014 13:00, tim..... wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 23/08/2014 13:20, tim..... wrote:
I've just bought some cheep and cheerful (mains) down-lighters from a
shed.

They have metal fittings which are exposed when fitted and no way of
connecting the earth lead to the fitting.

How can that conform to the current regs and BS?

Or have I misunderstood the requirements

Are they marked as Double insulated (square within a square logo)?

Now that I've had it explained to me - they are

ok that's fine then.


What is the IPx rating on them?

the what?

the label on the cover says IP23

Is that it?

Yup, IP ratings are usually two digits (sometimes three) and they tell
you the level of protection from objects and water...

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code

IP23 means the fitting is adequately protected to stop you poking a
finger into a live part, and that it will be protected from a water
spray of up to 0.7 litres / min at an angle from vertical to 60 degrees.

That's "ok" but not good enough for some locations inside a bathroom. So
you can only use mains IPx3 fittings outside Zone 2.

See:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...lectrics#Zones


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/