The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

Brian

No I wear glasses.
--
bert

And now that is out of the way....
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"bert" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Brian Gaff
writes
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort
of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc,
but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see
hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

Brian

No I wear glasses.
--
bert

On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it is
a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is known
as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or through
the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back alongside
the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep a bit of
tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make a
second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the same
way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight. You have
now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

--
Colin Bignell

Brian Gaff wrote

The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots.

And even with eyes, its not necessarily that easy.

When I was building the house I was shown by a truck driver how
to to those ropes which are a bit like a block and tackle except done
entirely with just rope, to apply a lot of tension to the rope being tied.

Damned if I could find a decent video on youtube showing how
its done now tho when I wanted to point someone else at it online.

I know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of person.

I was, and my dad was big on that stuff too.

At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it.

Yeah, I'm not surprised, its really the best way to do that sort of thing.

Being blind I want the person to say, you pass the loop you just made
underneath and to the right etc, but it seems it now all pictures. The guy
on the video says as you can see hear, or you do this then this, very
helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

Rod Speed wrote


Brian Gaff wrote

The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots.

And even with eyes, its not necessarily that easy.

When I was building the house I was shown by a truck driver how
to to those ropes which are a bit like a block and tackle except done
entirely with just rope, to apply a lot of tension to the rope being tied.

Damned if I could find a decent video on youtube showing how
its done now tho when I wanted to point someone else at it online.

Truckers Hitch

http://www.instructables.com/id/Truc...esome-knot-on-
the-plan/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkcOzCjuuU

There are others not in Engrish



I know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of person.

I was, and my dad was big on that stuff too.

At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it.

Yeah, I'm not surprised, its really the best way to do that sort of thing.

Being blind I want the person to say, you pass the loop you just made
underneath and to the right etc, but it seems it now all pictures. The guy
on the video says as you can see hear, or you do this then this, very
helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort
of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that
I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc,
but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see
hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the simplest
ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it is a hitch,
rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the differences
between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a hole,
bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is known as the
standing part. Now take the free end around the post or through the hole,
in the same direction as before, and bring it back alongside the standing
part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep a bit of tension on the
rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it under
itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens and holds
itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make a second half
hitch further along the standing part in exactly the same way and in the
same direction as the first and pull that tight. You have now made a round
turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort
of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that
I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc,
but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see
hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the simplest
ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it is a hitch,
rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the differences
between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a hole,
bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is known as the
standing part. Now take the free end around the post or through the hole,
in the same direction as before, and bring it back alongside the standing
part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep a bit of tension on the
rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it under
itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens and holds
itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make a second half
hitch further along the standing part in exactly the same way and in the
same direction as the first and pull that tight. You have now made a round
turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

And that is useless for tying a cover over a hole anyway.

Jabba wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots.

And even with eyes, its not necessarily that easy.

When I was building the house I was shown by a truck driver how
to to those ropes which are a bit like a block and tackle except done
entirely with just rope, to apply a lot of tension to the rope being
tied.

Damned if I could find a decent video on youtube showing how
its done now tho when I wanted to point someone else at it online.

Truckers Hitch

Yep.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Truc...t-on-the-plan/

That one isnt the best approach, harder to remove once you are finished with
it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkcOzCjuuU

That one uses two knots that form the top 'pulley', we only use one there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hHtb_if1g
is closer to what we do, but again one more
loop around the top 'pulley' than I do.

And that one wasn't available when I needed it.

There are others not in Engrish

There are actually lots in english with truckers hitch.

On 04/08/2014 01:12, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

And that is useless for tying a cover over a hole anyway.

That depends how you tie the cover over the hole and, the important bit
here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a blind person.

--
Colin Bignell

On 04/08/2014 01:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

In that case, please feel free to give a better description that can be
followed by a blind person working only by touch.

--
Colin Bignell

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 01:12, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots.
I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

And that is useless for tying a cover over a hole anyway.

That depends how you tie the cover over the hole

Nope, that knot is useless for tying a cover over a hole.

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a blind
person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 01:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots.
I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

In that case, please feel free to give a better description that can be
followed by a blind person working only by touch.

It isnt possible to do that until he gives more
detail about the hole and how it is covered.

The best way to tie a cover over a round hole over the
end of a pipe like hole is quite different to what is best
if it's a hole in a vertical wall or a hole in the roof.

On 04/08/2014 02:34, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 01:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught
knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

In that case, please feel free to give a better description that can
be followed by a blind person working only by touch.

It isnt possible to do that until he gives more
detail about the hole and how it is covered.

The best way to tie a cover over a round hole over the
end of a pipe like hole is quite different to what is best
if it's a hole in a vertical wall or a hole in the roof.

He has said, it is a hole in an outbuilding, so provide him with a
suitable knot for tying a tarpaulin over a hole in a wall or the roof.

--
Colin Bignell

On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
....

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable. The whole point here
is to help him, not to pontificate about whether the only description
anybody has given is the right one for the job.


--
Colin Bignell

Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

Just a thought, wrap the rope round whatever it is any old way, then
pull tight and secure the ends with a big nylon cable tie?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

In article ,
"Rod Speed" wrote:

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
.......
I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

********. I found his description of how to tie that knot perfect.

We all have moods, Rod, and we all act differently in our moods. Your
default action seems to be to lash out in an unjustifiably arrogant
manner. It's tedious.

John

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 02:34, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 01:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught
knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

In that case, please feel free to give a better description that can
be followed by a blind person working only by touch.

It isnt possible to do that until he gives more
detail about the hole and how it is covered.

The best way to tie a cover over a round hole over the
end of a pipe like hole is quite different to what is best
if it's a hole in a vertical wall or a hole in the roof.

He has said, it is a hole in an outbuilding,

All of those can be a hole in an outbuilding.

so provide him with a suitable knot for tying a tarpaulin over a hole in a
wall or the roof.

The one knot can't be used for both of those.

The best way to tie down a tarp which covers
a hole in a roof is quite different to a tarp that
covers a hole in a wall.

And a blind person doesn't need any specific
knot to tie done a tarp that covers a hole in a
roof or wall anyway, anything that holds the
tarp in place securely is fine.

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable.

Just did. You don't need any specific knot to hold a tarp in
place over a hole in a wall or roof. Anything will be fine and
that is a much more viable approach for a blind person.

The whole point here is to help him,

And you didn't do that. Your knot is completely useless
for holding a tarp over a hole in a wall or roof.

not to pontificate about whether the only description anybody has given is
the right one for the job.

It isnt the description that is the problem with what you
described, it's the choice of that knot for that job.

Rod Speed wrote


Jabba wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots.

And even with eyes, its not necessarily that easy.

When I was building the house I was shown by a truck driver how
to to those ropes which are a bit like a block and tackle except done
entirely with just rope, to apply a lot of tension to the rope being
tied.

Damned if I could find a decent video on youtube showing how
its done now tho when I wanted to point someone else at it online.

Truckers Hitch

Yep.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Truc...t-on-the-plan/

That one isnt the best approach, harder to remove once you are finished with
it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkcOzCjuuU

That one uses two knots that form the top 'pulley', we only use one there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hHtb_if1g
is closer to what we do, but again one more
loop around the top 'pulley' than I do.

And that one wasn't available when I needed it.

There are others not in Engrish

There are actually lots in english with truckers hitch.


Whooosh

Another John wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

********.

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of
it.

I found his description of how to tie that knot perfect.

More fool you. Whoever told him that he is a fairly useless instructor is
right.

On 04/08/2014 07:11, "Nightjar \"cpb\""@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 04/08/2014 02:34, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 01:10, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught
knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that
sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all
that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the
person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right
etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can
see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

If you want to secure the end of a rope to something, one of the
simplest ways is the round turn and two half hitches. Technically, it
is a hitch, rather than a knot, but I don't suppose you care about the
differences between a knot, a hitch, a bend and a tie, even if I could
remember them.

Take the free end of the rope and pass it around a post or through a
hole, bringing back alongside the the other bit of rope, which is
known as the standing part. Now take the free end around the post or
through the hole, in the same direction as before, and bring it back
alongside the standing part. That is the round turn. From now on, keep
a bit of tension on the rope, so that the standing part stays taut.

You now pass the free end once around the standing part and tuck it
under itself so that, when you pull on the free end the loop tightens
and holds itself in place. That is the first half hitch. You now make
a second half hitch further along the standing part in exactly the
same way and in the same direction as the first and pull that tight.
You have now made a round turn and two half hitches.

If you expect a heavy load on the rope, you can add one or more round
turns, but you never need more than two half hitches.

I hope that makes sense. I am told I am a fairly useless instructor.

Whoever told you that is right.

In that case, please feel free to give a better description that can
be followed by a blind person working only by touch.

It isnt possible to do that until he gives more
detail about the hole and how it is covered.

The best way to tie a cover over a round hole over the
end of a pipe like hole is quite different to what is best
if it's a hole in a vertical wall or a hole in the roof.

He has said, it is a hole in an outbuilding, so provide him with a
suitable knot for tying a tarpaulin over a hole in a wall or the roof.


Screw some 3x2 around the base,
put the tarp over the building,
screw some 2x1 over the tarp into the 3x2.

Who needs knots.

"Jabba" wrote in message
ldhosting.com...
Rod Speed wrote


Jabba wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Brian Gaff wrote

The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no
suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online
will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught
knots.

And even with eyes, its not necessarily that easy.

When I was building the house I was shown by a truck driver how
to to those ropes which are a bit like a block and tackle except done
entirely with just rope, to apply a lot of tension to the rope being
tied.

Damned if I could find a decent video on youtube showing how
its done now tho when I wanted to point someone else at it online.

Truckers Hitch

Yep.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Truc...t-on-the-plan/

That one isnt the best approach, harder to remove once you are finished
with
it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drkcOzCjuuU

That one uses two knots that form the top 'pulley', we only use one
there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hHtb_if1g
is closer to what we do, but again one more
loop around the top 'pulley' than I do.

And that one wasn't available when I needed it.

There are others not in Engrish

There are actually lots in english with truckers hitch.


Whooosh

There is no whoosh, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.

On 04/08/2014 10:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable.

Just did. You don't need any specific knot to hold a tarp in
place over a hole in a wall or roof. Anything will be fine and
that is a much more viable approach for a blind person.

Fine, so give him a description of one you think he can use.

The whole point here is to help him,

And you didn't do that. Your knot is completely useless
for holding a tarp over a hole in a wall or roof.

It will work perfectly well for an eyeleted tarpaulin roped back to tie
points. However, if you think not, give Brian a description of how to do it.

not to pontificate about whether the only description anybody has
given is the right one for the job.

It isnt the description that is the problem with what you
described, it's the choice of that knot for that job.

So, describe how to do it for Brian.

--
Colin Bignell

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 10:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable.

Just did. You don't need any specific knot to hold a tarp in
place over a hole in a wall or roof. Anything will be fine and
that is a much more viable approach for a blind person.

Fine, so give him a description of one you think he can use.

The whole point here is to help him,

And you didn't do that. Your knot is completely useless
for holding a tarp over a hole in a wall or roof.

It will work perfectly well for an eyeleted tarpaulin roped back to tie
points.

You don't need anything like that for that.

However, if you think not, give Brian a description of how to do it.

I did, anything will work fine.

not to pontificate about whether the only description anybody has
given is the right one for the job.

It isnt the description that is the problem with what you
described, it's the choice of that knot for that job.

So, describe how to do it for Brian.

I did, anything will work fine.

On 04/08/2014 15:09, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 10:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable.

Just did. You don't need any specific knot to hold a tarp in
place over a hole in a wall or roof. Anything will be fine and
that is a much more viable approach for a blind person.

Fine, so give him a description of one you think he can use.

The whole point here is to help him,

And you didn't do that. Your knot is completely useless
for holding a tarp over a hole in a wall or roof.

It will work perfectly well for an eyeleted tarpaulin roped back to
tie points.

You don't need anything like that for that.

It will work and it is simple to describe to a blind man.

However, if you think not, give Brian a description of how to do it.

I did, anything will work fine.

not to pontificate about whether the only description anybody has
given is the right one for the job.

It isnt the description that is the problem with what you
described, it's the choice of that knot for that job.

So, describe how to do it for Brian.

I did, anything will work fine.

Not for somebody who, from his post, doesn't know any knots. If anything
will work fine, then the description I gave will do. If you disagree
with that, describe how to tie a knot he does need, instead of trying to
avoid the question with vague remarks.

--
Colin Bignell

On 03/08/2014 12:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an
outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable
knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will
tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I
know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort of
person.
At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I
have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person
to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc, but
it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see hear,
or you do this then this, very helpful matey.
Anyone got a good site?

Brian


I can tie most knots ... and some would not be easy to put into words
.... bowline is probably OK. it might be a lot easier to learn if you
have a sighted person tie the knot you want form an on-line video, and
you copy step by step as they explain each step ... you can stop or ask
for more details as you go ...
Where are you, be glad to help if I'm nearby.


--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

Rod Speed wrote



There are others not in


******************Engrish****************




There are actually lots in english with truckers hitch.


Whooosh

There is no whoosh, you pathetic excuse for a bull**** artist.


I repeat Whooosh for the humourless **** who needs to go to SpecSavers

On Sunday, 3 August 2014 12:46:44 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
The other day I was thinking about tying a cover over a hole in an

outbuilding, but I had no rope etc, but even if I did, i have no suitable

knots in my brain to tye things tightly with. Great I thought, online will

tell me, but no, it seems you need eyes these days to be taught knots. I

know, I should have joined the scouts when young, but I was not that sort of

person.

At the moment although there are videos and tutorials on line, all that I

have found use pictures oor videos to do it. Being blind I want the person

to say, you pass the loop you just made underneath and to the right etc, but

it seems it now all pictures. The guy on the video says as you can see hear,

or you do this then this, very helpful matey.

Anyone got a good site?



Brian



--

From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active

Not sure if this is instantly helpful, but cavers place great emphasis on being able to tie knots in total darkness. If you are able to locate a caving club or even just someone experienced in SRT (Single Rope Technique) near you they might be willing to teach you how to tie knots and, because of their requirement to be able to work in darkness. might make good teachers.

Hope that helps

Richard

"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 15:09, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 10:29, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable.

Just did. You don't need any specific knot to hold a tarp in
place over a hole in a wall or roof. Anything will be fine and
that is a much more viable approach for a blind person.

Fine, so give him a description of one you think he can use.

The whole point here is to help him,

And you didn't do that. Your knot is completely useless
for holding a tarp over a hole in a wall or roof.

It will work perfectly well for an eyeleted tarpaulin roped back to
tie points.

You don't need anything like that for that.

It will work

So will any knot in that situation.

and it is simple to describe to a blind man.

The rope thru the eyelet with two half hitches is even simpler.

And a clove hitch at the other end of that bit of rope too.

Not that you need anything special in that situation, anything will work
fine.

However, if you think not, give Brian a description of how to do it.

I did, anything will work fine.

not to pontificate about whether the only description anybody has
given is the right one for the job.

It isnt the description that is the problem with what you
described, it's the choice of that knot for that job.

So, describe how to do it for Brian.

I did, anything will work fine.

Not for somebody who, from his post, doesn't know any knots.

You don't need anything knot wise at all in that situation,
anything will work fine.

If anything will work fine, then the description I gave will do.

It takes more description than the obvious alternatives I listed above.

And you don't need to describe anything when anything will work fine.

If you disagree with that, describe how to tie a knot he does need,

He doesn't need any specific knot, any knot will work fine.

instead of trying to avoid the question with vague remarks.

The question was never avoided, I rubbed your nose
n the FACT that any knot will work fine in that situation.

And I made no vague remarks either.

On 04/08/2014 23:14, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
....
and it is simple to describe to a blind man.

The rope thru the eyelet with two half hitches is even simpler.

The knot I described was a round turn with two half hitches, which will
hold much better than a simple loop with two half hitches.

And a clove hitch at the other end of that bit of rope too.

Fine, so describe a clove hitch for Brian.

.....
instead of trying to avoid the question with vague remarks.

The question was never avoided, I rubbed your nose
n the FACT that any knot will work fine in that situation.

I'm not sure how you think you 'rubbed my nose' in anything, considering
I never disputed that other knots would work, although I can think of
quite a few that won't, such as a running Turk's head, a sheet bend or a
double becket. I simply invited you to describe one of these any other
knots for Brian, which you have still spectacularly failed to do.

And I made no vague remarks either.

Anything will work is about as vague as you can get when somebody is
asking for a specific solution.

--
Colin Bignell

Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote

and it is simple to describe to a blind man.

The rope thru the eyelet with two half hitches is even simpler.

The knot I described was a round turn with two half hitches,

Yes.

which will hold much better than a simple loop with two half hitches.

Wrong with a tarp eyelet that will work fine the way I described.

And so will anything else used too. No need for any specific
knot in that situation, anything that is secure will be fine.

The only difference with the better knots is that they are easier
to undo, but its silly to bother with that when you are blind,
it makes a lot more sense to just do what works and but the
knot off if you find it too hard to work out how to undo it
when you are finished with the tarp over the hole.

And a clove hitch at the other end of that bit of rope too.

Fine, so describe a clove hitch for Brian.

No point, like I said, we don't know what he plans to tie
that end of the rope to and it makes more sense to just
tie it anyway way you like if you are blind. It will work fine.

instead of trying to avoid the question with vague remarks.

The question was never avoided, I rubbed your nose in
the FACT that any knot will work fine in that situation.

I'm not sure how you think you 'rubbed my nose' in anything,

Your problem.

considering I never disputed that other knots would work,
although I can think of quite a few that won't, such as a
running Turk's head, a sheet bend or a double becket.

I obviously mean that anything a blind person would
do in that situation with the eyelet will work fine.

I simply invited you to describe one
of these any other knots for Brian, which
you have still spectacularly failed to do.

Because anything a blind person
does in that situation will work fine.

And there was nothing spectacular whatever
about me rubbing your nose in that fact.

And I made no vague remarks either.

Anything will work is about as vague as you can get

Bull****. Its very specific in fact.

when somebody is asking for a specific solution.

I pointed out that he doesn't need a specific solution,
any knot a blind person with even half a clue does in
that situation will work fine.

Its always been obvious that he has plenty of clues.

It isnt even possible to provide a specific solution
when all he actually said about the situation is that
it's a hole in an outbuilding and didn't say whether
it is a hole in a roof, or a hole in a wall, or even
whether he plans to use a tarp to cover it or whether
he plans to use a sheet of material like ply to cover it,
let alone what there is near the hole that the rope can
be attached too, of if there is anything at all, in which
case it may well be better to not use rope at all.

On 05/08/2014 07:53, Rod Speed wrote:
....
I pointed out that he doesn't need a specific solution,
any knot a blind person with even half a clue does in
that situation will work fine....

You also totally ignored the fact that he specifically posted a request
for instructions on how to tie a knot, because he doesn't know any. I
have given him instructions for one. You dispute that is the right one.
All you need to do now is to provide him with an alternative. As you say
that any knot will do, describe any knot you think he can use. You don't
need to know the exact application, if any knot will do.

Of course, you won't. You will, as usual, fail to offer any real help
and simply bluster to try to hide the fact that you can't do it.


--
Colin Bignell

Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote
Rod Speed wrote

I pointed out that he doesn't need a specific solution,
any knot a blind person with even half a clue does in
that situation will work fine....

You also totally ignored the fact that he specifically posted a request
for instructions on how to tie a knot, because he doesn't know any.

He doesn't need to know any, anything anyone with even
half a clue will work fine in that situation if he is using a tarp.

I have given him instructions for one. You dispute that is the right one.

Because you are unlikely to be able to get more
than one pass off the rope thru the eyelet in a tarp.

All you need to do now is to provide him with an alternative.

I did, I pointed out that anything anyone with even half a clue
would do would work fine with a tarp if that is what he plans
to use. We don't even know that whether he plans to use a
tarp or whether it's a hole in a wall or a roof or something
else entirely so it isnt even possible to prove him with a
useful alternative.

As you say that any knot will do, describe any knot you think he can use.

No point in doing that with a blind person
when anything he does will work fine.

You don't need to know the exact application, if any knot will do.

I didn't say any knot will do with any situation,
JUST with a tarp if that is what he plans to use.

Of course, you won't.

I did, I told him that anything he does will
work fine if it's a tarp being used over a hole.

You will, as usual, fail to offer any real help

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a ****ing dinner, as you ALWAYS are.

and simply bluster to try to hide the fact that you can't do it.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a ****ing dinner, as you ALWAYS are.

On 05/08/2014 08:46, Rod Speed wrote:
Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote
....
You will, as usual, fail to offer any real help

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a ****ing dinner, as you ALWAYS are.

and simply bluster to try to hide the fact that you can't do it.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a ****ing dinner, as you ALWAYS are.

Thank you for proving my point.


--
Colin Bignell

In article ,
Nightjar \cpb\@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 05/08/2014 07:53, Rod Speed wrote: ...
I pointed out that he doesn't need a specific solution,
any knot a blind person with even half a clue does in
that situation will work fine....

You also totally ignored the fact that he specifically
posted a request for instructions on how to tie a knot,
because he doesn't know any. I have given him
instructions for one. You dispute that is the right one.
All you need to do now is to provide him with an
alternative. As you say that any knot will do, describe
any knot you think he can use. You don't need to know
the exact application, if any knot will do.

Of course, you won't. You will, as usual, fail to offer
any real help and simply bluster to try to hide the fact
that you can't do it.

Well I tried following your instructions by 'doing' (I'm
sure I'm not the only one) and it was easier to do it than
to read it - and it worked.

I think that I ended up with the good old fashioned first
aiders' reef knot (right over left and under, left over
right and under) securing the turns.

As an aside; I'm sure you know that teaching a *skill*
requires a different approach to other teaching. Your reply
to Brian was only the first step in the normal (four step)
process of teaching a skill and as such it deserved ONLY
positive feedback.

John M

--
John Mulrooney
NOTE Email address IS correct but might not be checked for a while.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak

Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote

You will, as usual, fail to offer any real help

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a ****ing dinner, as you ALWAYS are.

and simply bluster to try to hide the fact that you can't do it.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying
thru your teeth, as you always do when you have
got done like a ****ing dinner, as you ALWAYS are.

Thank you for proving my point.

You never could bull**** and lie your way out of a wet paper bag, Bignell.

On 05/08/2014 10:28, JTM wrote:
....
Well I tried following your instructions by 'doing' (I'm
sure I'm not the only one) and it was easier to do it than
to read it - and it worked.

I think that I ended up with the good old fashioned first
aiders' reef knot (right over left and under, left over
right and under) securing the turns.

It should have looked like a clove hitch around the standing part.

As an aside; I'm sure you know that teaching a *skill*
requires a different approach to other teaching. Your reply
to Brian was only the first step in the normal (four step)
process of teaching a skill and as such it deserved ONLY
positive feedback.

Thank you. I don't actually take any notice of Rod's opinions. He has
demonstrated many times that he is only capable of destructive
criticism, often on subjects he obviously has no knowledge of. It can be
amusing to wind him up, but I am beginning to think he might have a
personality disorder and that doing so is not really fair.

The problem I have with instructing is that I have difficulty knowing
just how to pitch it to the knowledge level of the person being taught.
I tend to assume that things that are obvious to me, often after many
decades of doing something, are also obvious to others.


--
Colin Bignell

Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote
JTM wrote

Well I tried following your instructions by 'doing'
(I'm sure I'm not the only one) and it was easier
to do it than to read it - and it worked.

I think that I ended up with the good old fashioned
first aiders' reef knot (right over left and under, left
over right and under) securing the turns.

It should have looked like a clove hitch around the standing part.

As an aside; I'm sure you know that teaching a *skill*
requires a different approach to other teaching. Your reply
to Brian was only the first step in the normal (four step)
process of teaching a skill and as such it deserved ONLY
positive feedback.

Thank you. I don't actually take any notice of Rod's opinions.

Obvious lie.

He has demonstrated many times that
he is only capable of destructive criticism,

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying thru your
teeth, as you always do when you have got done like a ****ing
dinner, with the comments on a heart triple bypass alone.

often on subjects he obviously has no knowledge of.
It can be amusing to wind him up,

You never could lie your way out of a wet paper bag Bignell.

but I am beginning to think he might have a
personality disorder and that doing so is not really fair.

Any 2 year old could leave that for dead Bignell.

In message , "Nightjar
\"cpb\"@" "insert my surname writes
On 04/08/2014 02:31, Rod Speed wrote:


"Nightjar "cpb"@" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
...

and, the important bit here, is that it is a fairly simple not for a
blind person.

There are plenty of knots that are simple for a blind
person and useful for tying a cover over a hole.

In which case, you can demonstrate that claim by providing Brian with
written descriptions of those you think suitable. The whole point here
is to help him, not to pontificate about whether the only description
anybody has given is the right one for the job.

2 pennorth from my long dead girl guide mother.... left over right and
then right over left gives you a reef knot.



--
Tim Lamb