I have to make a series of holes for fence posts, in ground that's extremely
stony: basically it's a mix of clay and shingle. I've manually dug holes in
the past and it's very hard going, so I'm wondering about buying or hiring
an augur, either powered or hand-operated. Previous discussions on this
subject have seen varying recommendations but no-one mentioned ground quite
as stone-infested as mine: would a mechanical hole-borer be a worthwhile
investment? And if so, petrol or electric? Many thanks.

Bert

On 21/07/2014 10:47, Bert Coules wrote:
I have to make a series of holes for fence posts, in ground that's
extremely stony: basically it's a mix of clay and shingle. I've
manually dug holes in the past and it's very hard going, so I'm
wondering about buying or hiring an augur, either powered or
hand-operated. Previous discussions on this subject have seen varying
recommendations but no-one mentioned ground quite as stone-infested as
mine: would a mechanical hole-borer be a worthwhile investment? And if
so, petrol or electric? Many thanks.

Bert

You could try a manual one, they are not very expensive, I think mine
came from Toolstation, and that might give you an idea on the prospect
of success.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POST-HOLE-...em56543e 93e8

I would certainly hire before buying if I was considering a powered one.

I get the impression that hydraulic ones attached to several tons of
tractor will cope with most things.

On 21/07/2014 10:47, Bert Coules wrote:
I have to make a series of holes for fence posts, in ground that's
extremely stony: basically it's a mix of clay and shingle. I've manually
dug holes in the past and it's very hard going, so I'm wondering about
buying or hiring an augur, either powered or hand-operated. Previous
discussions on this subject have seen varying recommendations but no-one
mentioned ground quite as stone-infested as mine: would a mechanical
hole-borer be a worthwhile investment? And if so, petrol or electric?
Many thanks.

Bert

I've found manual ones - in conjunction with a long spike to dislodge
stones - reasonably good. But it's not a quick job.

I fear that you may end up going on a few involuntary roundabout rides
if you use a powered one!

A corkscrew on the back of a tractor would do the job well, but that
ain't going to be cheap.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

Thanks to Newshound and Roger for the replies and advice. Toolstation's
"Auger Post Hole Drill" is a very reasonable £15.10, so I'll give that a go
first I think, in conjunction with the suggested long spike.

The tractor-based solution is very attractive but a tad impractical in my
particular setting, I'm afraid.

Bert

"Bert Coules" wrote:
Thanks to Newshound and Roger for the replies and advice. Toolstation's
"Auger Post Hole Drill" is a very reasonable £15.10, so I'll give that a
go first I think, in conjunction with the suggested long spike.

The tractor-based solution is very attractive but a tad impractical in my
particular setting, I'm afraid.

Bert

Don't discount a basic post hole digger.
http://toolstoday.co.uk/product/1014...FUgCwwodIg0AVA

Very useful tool and as long as your rocks aren't too big, should cope
well.

Tim

On 21/07/2014 13:38, Tim+ wrote:
"Bert wrote:
Thanks to Newshound and Roger for the replies and advice. Toolstation's
"Auger Post Hole Drill" is a very reasonable £15.10, so I'll give that a
go first I think, in conjunction with the suggested long spike.

The tractor-based solution is very attractive but a tad impractical in my
particular setting, I'm afraid.

Bert

Don't discount a basic post hole digger.
http://toolstoday.co.uk/product/1014...FUgCwwodIg0AVA

Very useful tool and as long as your rocks aren't too big, should cope
well.

Tim

Should work well in conjunction with an auger - for removing the loose
spoil.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

Tim and Roger, thanks for that. Toolstation have a similar one, with a link
to it from the auger page. I glanced at it but now I'll take a longer look.

Bert

/Should work well in conjunction with an auger - for removing the loose spoil. /q

Shurely pulling up the auger now and then will remove the spoil?

Jim K

On 21/07/2014 16:27, JimK wrote:
/Should work well in conjunction with an auger - for removing the loose spoil. /q

Shurely pulling up the auger now and then will remove the spoil?

Jim K

In theory. But if the ground is a bit crumbly, resulting in a hole a bit
bigger than the auger, some spoil will fall off the edges of the spiral
as you lift it out.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

/n theory. But if the ground is a bit crumbly, resulting in a hole a bit
bigger than the auger, some spoil will fall off the edges of the spiral
as you lift it out. /q

Meh, if the ground is as bad as the OP says, I would expect him to be regularly on his knees with arm down the hole scooping out asstd debris, never mind pratting about with a separate tool...

Jim K

It sounds as though the sensible approach might be to get hold of a manual
auger and try that first. If the holes do start falling in on themselves
then I can add the hole-digger. That's assuming that I can get any joy from
my soil with hand-power only...

Bert

On 21/07/2014 13:53, Roger Mills wrote:
On 21/07/2014 13:38, Tim+ wrote:
"Bert wrote:
Thanks to Newshound and Roger for the replies and advice. Toolstation's
"Auger Post Hole Drill" is a very reasonable £15.10, so I'll give that a
go first I think, in conjunction with the suggested long spike.

The tractor-based solution is very attractive but a tad impractical
in my
particular setting, I'm afraid.

Bert

Don't discount a basic post hole digger.
http://toolstoday.co.uk/product/1014...FUgCwwodIg0AVA


Very useful tool and as long as your rocks aren't too big, should cope
well.

Tim

Should work well in conjunction with an auger - for removing the loose
spoil.

I had one of these before I got an auger, and didn't find it
particularly effective. Strength (yours), technique, and ground
condition will all have an influence. I did find it useful when trying
to locate a new spring (in order to decide where drain pipe needed to
go), for removing material displaced by the auger and a mattock.

A few of the holes I'm going to dig have to be just too close to a nearby
wall to allow the use of a manual auger. The hole-digger (or a mechanical
auger) would however both be usable in the space.

Bert

On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:10:52 -0700 (PDT), JimK
wrote:

/n theory. But if the ground is a bit crumbly, resulting in a hole a bit
bigger than the auger, some spoil will fall off the edges of the spiral
as you lift it out. /q

Meh, if the ground is as bad as the OP says, I would expect him to be regularly on his knees with arm down the hole scooping out asstd debris, never mind pratting about with a separate tool...

Jim K
If it is that dry and crumbly then a vacuum cleaner can be useful if
it is not too delicate, I found a small vacuum at jumble sale intended
to collect soot ,that Ald/ lidli sell for about £35 . At the jumble I
paid £5 and can abuse the thing with a clear conscience such as if
the soil is dry enough vacuuming holes to plant beans etc in.

G.Harman

If it is that dry and crumbly then a vacuum cleaner can be useful if
it is not too delicate...

That's a technique which I don't think would ever have occurred to me.
Thanks.

Bert

On 21/07/2014 20:39, Bert Coules wrote:
A few of the holes I'm going to dig have to be just too close to a
nearby wall to allow the use of a manual auger. The hole-digger (or a
mechanical auger) would however both be usable in the space.

Bert

I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have a welded handle but a tube going
through an eye, locked with a set screw. So by removing the screw it
should be possible to go close to a wall.

It might be the Draper one from Amazon and this is what their Q&A says:

Q: Is the handle movable along its length (or welded in) as I need some
holes near a stone wall Many thanks
A:
The handle can be moved from left to right so you should be able to use
this close to a wall although it may take a while to make a deep hole.

Bert Coules wrote:

If it is that dry and crumbly then a vacuum cleaner can be useful if
it is not too delicate...

That's a technique which I don't think would ever have occurred to me.
Thanks.

Around Nottingham they have found vacuum excavation very useful
for the works to extend the tram route. It means that they can
expose services with less risk of damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFEc2NBbB8U

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 21/07/2014 20:39, Bert Coules wrote:
A few of the holes I'm going to dig have to be just too close to a
nearby wall to allow the use of a manual auger. The hole-digger (or a
mechanical auger) would however both be usable in the space.

Bert

If you are talking about stones bigger than a half bat then you will
struggle with the manual digger and will need to break them up.
I use a meter long masonry drill in a 5kg sds drill.

Smaller than that and it should only take about 10-15 minutes to do a 3
foot deep hole.

"newshound" wrote:

I'm pretty sure mine doesn't have a welded handle but a tube going through
an eye, locked with a set screw. So by removing the screw it should be
possible to go close to a wall.

It might be the Draper one from Amazon and this is what their Q&A says:

That would be ideal, thanks for the info. I'll check the Toolstation model
and if that doesn't have the adjustable handle I'll go for the Draper one.

Bert

On 22/07/2014 16:49, Dennis@home wrote:
On 21/07/2014 20:39, Bert Coules wrote:
A few of the holes I'm going to dig have to be just too close to a
nearby wall to allow the use of a manual auger. The hole-digger (or a
mechanical auger) would however both be usable in the space.

Bert

If you are talking about stones bigger than a half bat then you will
struggle with the manual digger and will need to break them up.
I use a meter long masonry drill in a 5kg sds drill.

Smaller than that and it should only take about 10-15 minutes to do a 3
foot deep hole.

Agreed. I was certainly assuming only stones which would "pass through"
the screw.

Dennis,

If you are talking about stones bigger than a half bat...

That wasn't a term I was familiar with, but having looked it up I can say
that the stones in my spoil are all considerably smaller than half of a
standard house brick.

Smaller than that and it should only take about
10-15 minutes to do a 3 foot deep hole.

And since three feet is deeper than I need to go, that's also good news.
Many thanks.

Bert

Chris J Dixon wrote:

Around Nottingham they have found vacuum excavation very useful
for the works to extend the tram route.

That's fascinating Chris, many thanks.

Bert

On 22/07/2014 16:08, Chris J Dixon wrote:


Around Nottingham they have found vacuum excavation very useful
for the works to extend the tram route. It means that they can
expose services with less risk of damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFEc2NBbB8U

Chris

Thanks for that - a very interesting video.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 17:06:57 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

Smaller than that and it should only take about 10-15 minutes to
do a 3
foot deep hole.

And since three feet is deeper than I need to go, that's also good news.

3' deep is about what you should have for a 8' to 9 post above
ground. A rough rule of thumb for post depth is 1/3 in the ground. 4'
high fence post 2' in the ground, depends what this fence is for. Is
it to keep livestock caontained or just "decorative"? For the latter
18" would probably do.


--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:

A rough rule of thumb for post depth is 1/3 in the ground...
depends what this fence is for. Is it to keep livestock
contained or just "decorative"?

Purely decorative (or at least not holding back any animal life) and with
posts 30" high. By the one-third rule that seems to suggest just 10" in the
ground, which sounds pretty minimal. I might go a bit deeper than that,
ground conditions permitting.

Bert

On 21/07/2014 13:38, Tim+ wrote:
"Bert Coules" wrote:
Thanks to Newshound and Roger for the replies and advice. Toolstation's
"Auger Post Hole Drill" is a very reasonable £15.10, so I'll give that a
go first I think, in conjunction with the suggested long spike.

The tractor-based solution is very attractive but a tad impractical in my
particular setting, I'm afraid.

Bert

Don't discount a basic post hole digger.
http://toolstoday.co.uk/product/1014...FUgCwwodIg0AVA

Very useful tool and as long as your rocks aren't too big, should cope
well.

Tim

That's my weapon of choice, along with a demolition crowbar
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Demolition-C...-1-5m/p/167422

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:28:48 +0100, The Medway Handyman wrote:

On 21/07/2014 13:38, Tim+ wrote:
"Bert Coules" wrote:
Thanks to Newshound and Roger for the replies and advice. Toolstation's
"Auger Post Hole Drill" is a very reasonable £15.10, so I'll give that a
go first I think, in conjunction with the suggested long spike.

The tractor-based solution is very attractive but a tad impractical in my
particular setting, I'm afraid.

Bert

Don't discount a basic post hole digger.
http://toolstoday.co.uk/product/1014...FUgCwwodIg0AVA

Very useful tool and as long as your rocks aren't too big, should cope
well.

Tim

That's my weapon of choice, along with a demolition crowbar
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Demolition-C...-1-5m/p/167422

Same here. I got the digger based, IIRC, on your recommendation, then
relised that slighly stoney clay was a bit too much for it. Got out the
ancient crowbar and jut broke up the soil and scooped it out. The crowbar is
double ended: one is a point and the other a slightly angled chisel, so more
versatile than a straight one.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:10:39 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

A rough rule of thumb for post depth is 1/3 in the ground...
depends
what this fence is for. Is it to keep livestock contained or just
"decorative"?

Purely decorative (or at least not holding back any animal life) and
with posts 30" high. By the one-third rule that seems to suggest just
10" in the ground, which sounds pretty minimal.

Aye, I think 10" / 30" is probably about the point where the linear
1/3 rule breaks down. Having said that good firm ground and a hole
only just big enough to take the post would probably be OK.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 23/07/2014 09:27, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 08:10:39 +0100, Bert Coules wrote:

A rough rule of thumb for post depth is 1/3 in the ground...
depends
what this fence is for. Is it to keep livestock contained or just
"decorative"?

Purely decorative (or at least not holding back any animal life) and
with posts 30" high. By the one-third rule that seems to suggest just
10" in the ground, which sounds pretty minimal.

Aye, I think 10" / 30" is probably about the point where the linear
1/3 rule breaks down. Having said that good firm ground and a hole
only just big enough to take the post would probably be OK.


I would think you could just hammer them in to that depth.

Thanks for all the new replies. The long-handled digger seems to be
emerging as the favourite, rather than the auger which was my first
instinctive choice. I'll look at both.


Bert

On 24/07/2014 10:59, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks for all the new replies. The long-handled digger seems to be
emerging as the favourite, rather than the auger which was my first
instinctive choice. I'll look at both.


Bert

You can never have too many tools. Get them both, and the crowbar (much
more useful than you might at first think).

"newshound" wrote:

...and the crowbar (much more useful than you might at first think).

Before this conversation, I thought that a crowbar was a shortish affair
with a slightly angled chisel-like blade at one end and a curved hook at the
other. Obviously not.

Thanks for the advice.

Bert

In message , Bert
Coules writes
"newshound" wrote:

...and the crowbar (much more useful than you might at first think).

Before this conversation, I thought that a crowbar was a shortish
affair with a slightly angled chisel-like blade at one end and a curved
hook at the other. Obviously not.

Thanks for the advice.

Bert
I think that's a jemmy.
--
bert

On 24/07/2014 11:59, Bert Coules wrote:
"newshound" wrote:

...and the crowbar (much more useful than you might at first think).

Before this conversation, I thought that a crowbar was a shortish affair
with a slightly angled chisel-like blade at one end and a curved hook at
the other. Obviously not.

Thanks for the advice.

Bert

Desmond & I call ours 'the toothpick' :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 23:41:49 +0100, bert wrote:

In message , Bert
Coules writes
"newshound" wrote:

...and the crowbar (much more useful than you might at first think).

Before this conversation, I thought that a crowbar was a shortish
affair with a slightly angled chisel-like blade at one end and a curved
hook at the other. Obviously not.

Thanks for the advice.

Bert
I think that's a jemmy.

or a wrecking bar(?)
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Friday, July 25, 2014 8:16:42 AM UTC+1, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 24/07/2014 11:59, Bert Coules wrote:

"newshound" wrote:



...and the crowbar (much more useful than you might at first think).



Before this conversation, I thought that a crowbar was a shortish affair

with a slightly angled chisel-like blade at one end and a curved hook at

the other. Obviously not.



Thanks for the advice.



Bert



Desmond & I call ours 'the toothpick' :-)





--

Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

We had to do this many years ago.The ground had been backfilled with a mixture of tailings and large rocks. We used a petrol driven auger. Two man job.. It will kick like a mule when its hits an obstruction but if you keep at it it will do the job. You might have to withdraw it occasionally to remove a rock but thats no biggie.Just make sure that there is plenty of room if it kicks back, It could pin you against a wall very easily. Be happy because in the end your posts are going to be firmly held

Well, I'm now back from Wickes/Toolstation armed with a post-hole digger and
a demolition crowbar, the second of which surprised me both by its weight,
which is considerable, and by having its non-pointed end bent over at an
angle: not only does it not look like that in the website illustration, one
of the customer reviews talks about bashing it home with a sledgehammer,
which sounds quite tricky. But we'll see.

Fred, thanks for the petrol-driven auger suggestion, but as you can see I've
decided to try the manual route, at least to begin with.

Bert