http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:49:41 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Not be long before it's the same here.

That's one hell of an extrapolation. The UK is somewhat different to
Australia, both in terms of available sunshine and in terms of the
national grid infrastructure.

In article , Adrian
scribeth thus
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 08:49:41 +0100, harryagain wrote:

Not be long before it's the same here.

That's one hell of an extrapolation. The UK is somewhat different to
Australia, both in terms of available sunshine and in terms of the
national grid infrastructure.

Poor olde harry don't think he's ever been out of the UK;(.


Overcast and quite cool here at the moment looks like rain too;(.....
--
Tony Sayer

harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

You don't even need to read the article, the ifs and buts are in the subhead

"solar could be economically viable"
^^^^^

Not be long before it's the same here.

Oh, when are we getting Aussie sunshine and monthly high temperatures
from 36 to 49 degrees?

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It'll give the Germans somewhere to buy mucky lignite from when they've
finished devouring villages and motorways.

Andy Burns wrote
harryagain wrote

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

You don't even need to read the article, the ifs and buts are in the
subhead

"solar could be economically viable"
^^^^^

Not be long before it's the same here.

Oh, when are we getting Aussie sunshine and monthly high temperatures from
36 to 49 degrees?

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It'll give the Germans somewhere to buy mucky lignite from when they've
finished devouring villages and motorways.

We don't export lignite.

In message , Rod Speed
writes
Andy Burns wrote
harryagain wrote


http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ar-has-won-eve
n-if-coal-were-free-to-burn-power-stations-couldnt-compete?CMP=EMCNEWE


You don't even need to read the article, the ifs and buts are in the
subhead

"solar could be economically viable"
^^^^^

Not be long before it's the same here.

Oh, when are we getting Aussie sunshine and monthly high temperatures
from 36 to 49 degrees?

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export
their coal.

It'll give the Germans somewhere to buy mucky lignite from when
they've finished devouring villages and motorways.

We don't export lignite.
Just a load of ****e which is much the same thing
--
bert

On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
....

So, when do we get moved to the latitude of Egypt, which is roughly as
far from the equator as Queensland?

--
Colin Bignell

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2
Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

.... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


NT

On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their

coal.



... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


data specialist ?

"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"

It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.

On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their

coal.



... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


data specialist ?

"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"

It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.


They could be made to work that way, with enough insulation. Ice houses
were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type
of powered refrigeration.

--
Colin Bignell

On 08/07/2014 10:53, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2


Not be long before it's the same here.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export
their

coal.



... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


data specialist ?

"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"

It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I
wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.


They could be made to work that way, with enough insulation. Ice houses
were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type
of powered refrigeration.

They needed to be pretty big, though, at least before celotex. Also,
they only held temperature at zero (thanks to latent heat) so not much
good as *freezers*.

On 08/07/14 11:17, newshound wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:
Ice houses
were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type
of powered refrigeration.

They needed to be pretty big, though, at least before celotex. Also,
they only held temperature at zero (thanks to latent heat) so not much
good as *freezers*.


I did the calculations once. IIRC 3 metres of stone castle wall fully
meet modern insulation requirements and, if hung with tapestry, exceed it.




--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 08/07/2014 11:17, newshound wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:53, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.

Odd that their pricing system is quite so unstable.

Hell will freeze over first. UK latitude makes solar power here a joke.

Restricted mainly to lashings of hot water in mid summer just a handful
of truly sunny days. Solar PV in the UK at 50N isn't cost effective.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export
their
coal.

... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


data specialist ?

"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"

It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I
wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.

Solar PV makes sense in hot sunny low latitude semitropical countries
where there is a huge peak in aircon demand in the mid to late
afternoon. Putting solar panels on a roof also slows heat ingress by
shading it as an added benefit.

They could be made to work that way, with enough insulation. Ice houses
were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type
of powered refrigeration.

They needed to be pretty big, though, at least before celotex. Also,
they only held temperature at zero (thanks to latent heat) so not much
good as *freezers*.

They used crushed ice and salt when they wanted to freeze things. The
ice stored was from frozen natural pond water so never used directly.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 08/07/2014 11:17, newshound wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:53, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:
....
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I
wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.


They could be made to work that way, with enough insulation. Ice houses
were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type
of powered refrigeration.

They needed to be pretty big, though, at least before celotex. Also,
they only held temperature at zero (thanks to latent heat) so not much
good as *freezers*.

It was more the principle of being able to hold temperatures well below
ambient for months on end without power that I was alluding to. It
certainly wouldn't be beyond modern technology to build freezers that
were intended to be powered for only a few hours a day.

--
Colin Bignell

On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:53:20 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:

On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:







http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2



Not be long before it's the same here.



No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their



coal.







... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.





data specialist ?



"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"



It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.



I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.





They could be made to work that way, with enough insulation. Ice houses

were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type

of powered refrigeration.

I don't think that happened in Australia perhaps the UK but even so not exactly practical for most people.

On 08/07/2014 16:05, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:53:20 UTC+1, Nightjar wrote:
On 08/07/2014 10:45, whisky-dave wrote:
....
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.

They could be made to work that way, with enough insulation. Ice houses
were capable of storing ice from one winter to another without any type
of powered refrigeration.

I don't think that happened in Australia perhaps the UK but even so not exactly practical for most people.

Ice houses are first recorded around 1780 BC in Mesopotamia. They were
also used by the ancient Chinese, while the Romans had similar buildings
to store snow. The ancient Egyptians didn't store ice, but they knew how
to manufacture it, using evaporative cooling in desert areas at night.

--
Colin Bignell

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export
their

coal.



... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


data specialist ?

"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"

It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I
wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.


If it was well enough insulated it could be.

On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 18:18:59 UTC+1, harry wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message

...

On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 10:20:22 UTC+1, wrote:

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:







http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2



Not be long before it's the same here.



No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export

their



coal.







... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.





data specialist ?



"data and software specialists like Google and Apple"



It's hardware where teh power saving will be made.



I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice for solar to be more viable but I

wouldn;t want my fridge/freezer turning off at night.





If it was well enough insulated it could be.

Providied I didn;t open it too often, makes you wonder why they don't make friges and freezers with sufficiently thick walls

Not everyone can have their flat or house walls 3 foot or more thick.
Most modern building are just a couple of pieces of plasterboard and a gap.

On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 02:20:22 -0700, meow2222 wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree

... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.

It's not an article. It's an opinion blog.

On 08/07/2014 11:56, Adrian wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2014 02:20:22 -0700, meow2222 wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree

... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.

It's not an article. It's an opinion blog.

Not like he has an agenda either... much!

From his linkedin profile:

"Founder and Editor
RenewEconomy
January 2012 €“ Present (2 years 7 months)Sydney

A new website focusing on renewable energy, cleantech, carbon, and
climate. How Australia and the world tackles the challenges of adapting
to new technologies."


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
writes
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 8:49:41 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:


http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...r-has-won-even
-if-coal-were-free-to-burn-power-stations-couldnt-compete?CMP=EMCNEWEML
6619I2
Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

... a nonengineer writes an article on engineering.


NT
Unfortunately parliament's full of them and they are the ones who make
the policies.
--
bert

harryagain wrote

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Just more journalistic bull****.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-0...s-says/5579874

Not be long before it's the same here.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Pity about what happens at night.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation

Irrelevant to that mindless silly **** above.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Just more journalistic bull****.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-0...s-says/5579874

Not be long before it's the same here.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Pity about what happens at night.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation

Irrelevant to that mindless silly **** above.


It means ****-fer-brans we would need twice the area of those in Queensland.
Or twice as efficient. Which may be in the pipeline.

harryagain wrote
Rod Speed wrote
harryagain wrote

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Just more journalistic bull****.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-0...s-says/5579874

Not be long before it's the same here.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Pity about what happens at night.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation

Irrelevant to that mindless silly **** above.

It means ****-fer-brans

Your sig is sposed to be last, with a line with just -- on it in front of
it.

we would need twice the area of those in Queensland.

Wrong, as always.

Or twice as efficient.

Wrong, as always.

Which may be in the pipeline.

Fraid not.

On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:22:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...

I too wish the world would run out of daft people, but I dont think its happened yet.


NT

On 08/07/14 16:26, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:22:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...

I too wish the world would run out of daft people, but I dont think its happened yet.


It all went wrong when we started being CONCERNED about daft people.

And then gave them the vote.


NT



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 08/07/2014 16:26, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:22:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...

I too wish the world would run out of daft people, but I dont think its happened yet.


NT

Scotland is going to lose 65% of its generating capacity due to the EU
shutting down their coal stations, and wee alex shutting down their
nuclear industry.

Use the Iplayer and listen to this mornings BBC R4 'Life Scientific'
program, when Jim Al-Khalili talked to Zoe Shipton, professor of geology
(somewhere). Note her remarks about wind-power and that infamous
anti-fracking video showing methane coming out of a tap.

wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:22:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export
their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...

I too wish the world would run out of daft people, but I dont think its
happened yet.

You are one of the worst.

On Tuesday, 8 July 2014 16:26:36 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:22:33 PM UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:



http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2



Not be long before it's the same here.

No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their

coal.



It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think

this is a good thing...



I too wish the world would run out of daft people, but I dont think its happened yet.

What if we used them as fuel, would that be classed as renewable energy, as I doubt there's a natural limit to stupidity other than darwinism.

whisky-dave wrote:

wrote:

John Rumm wrote:

is anyone daft enough to think this is a good thing...

I too wish the world would run out of daft people, but I dont think its happened yet.

What if we used them as fuel

They'd get re-invented before too long

On 08/07/2014 15:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2


Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...


Other than Harry, you mean?

--
Colin Bignell

On 08/07/2014 17:25, Nightjar "cpb"@ insert my surname here wrote:
On 08/07/2014 15:22, John Rumm wrote:
On 08/07/2014 08:49, harryagain wrote:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2



Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

It would interesting to know if there is anyone daft enough to think
this is a good thing...


Other than Harry, you mean?

Well I was allowing scope for him to pipe up and agree its daft... not
holding my breath though!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

What about at night though?
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harryagain" wrote in message
...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...MCNEWEML6619I2

Not be long before it's the same here.
No wonder the mine owners in Oz are getting so desperate to export their
coal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insolation

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What about at night though?

It gets dark.

mark

On Tue, 8 Jul 2014 15:59:35 +0100, "Brian Gaff" wrote:

What about at night though?

The sun is still shining, you just need to reorganise the earth into a flat
shape with all the solar panels pointing in the right direction all the time.
Making the earth flat is by far the easiest bit of making solar PV replace
fossil fuels.

--

In message , The Other Mike
writes
The sun is still shining, you just need to reorganise the earth into a flat
shape
You mean it's not flat?
--
bert

On 08/07/2014 15:59, Brian Gaff wrote:
What about at night though?


They have a long extension cable and exchange electricity with Harry.

--
Colin Bignell

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What about at night though?
Brian


The other form of renewables.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
What about at night though?
Brian


The other form of renewables.


like coal and gas? it's renewable isn't it, sure it may take a few
million years, but it's renewable all the same,