Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty and I'm
think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware of any
regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done this?

Thanks



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Jb wrote:
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty
and I'm think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware
of any regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done
this?
Thanks

Thousands of people have done this.
You need to be aware that any glass (note: *glass* not frame), that is
below 800mm from the inside floor must be toughened, likewise any glass in
doors, or in frames attatched to doors, but suppliers will *only* supply you
with this, you don't get to choose.

Look in your local yellow pages or free papers for upvc window companies,
anyone can buy from them, although if you know someone who has an account,
you may get trade discount.

There'll be half a dozen or more posts here shortly to inform you that the
FENSA police will drag you out of bed at 3AM if you change your own windows,
but just ignore them

"Jb" wrote in message
news
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty and
I'm think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware of
any regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done this?

Thanks


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protection is active.
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You may well have standard sized windows/doors and can buy them off the
shelf, cheaper than tailor made so check this out first. (eg Screwfix)

The frames have little stength and are easily distorted you have to be
accurate and buy the plasic packing pieces.

Fixed windows are dead easy.
With openers you have to be sure to fit the packers that support the glass
units in the frame dead on to stop them "drooping" in hot weather. The
glass give the window frame it's stength and shape. Top hung windows are
pretty easy.

The bigger the door/window, the harder it is to get it right. Double doors
are a PITA.

You need to have opening windows big enough to climb out if there's a fire.
You won't break the glass unless you have a hammer handy!

On 10/06/14 20:14, Phil L wrote:
Jb wrote:
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty
and I'm think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware
of any regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done
this?
Thanks

Thousands of people have done this.
You need to be aware that any glass (note: *glass* not frame), that is
below 800mm from the inside floor must be toughened, likewise any glass in
doors, or in frames attatched to doors, but suppliers will *only* supply you
with this, you don't get to choose.

Look in your local yellow pages or free papers for upvc window companies,
anyone can buy from them, although if you know someone who has an account,
you may get trade discount.

There'll be half a dozen or more posts here shortly to inform you that the
FENSA police will drag you out of bed at 3AM if you change your own windows,
but just ignore them



Yep. Technically, it's a Part L building regs thing that is notifiable.

However, I can also tell you that 2 BCOs I've met will look at it if
it's part of a wider job, but really don't care and mostly certainly
would not seek remedy against breaches.

Solicitors do make noises when selling, but the worst that can happen is
you tell them there are no certs and they tell the buyer who is very
unlikely to want to halt a sale for such trivia.

On 10/06/14 20:00, Jb wrote:
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty and I'm
think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware of any
regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done this?


uPVC - I recommend making sure you get frames with internal steelwork.
Much nicer to work with and much stringer. Non white *tends* to have
steel to compensate for the darker uPVC heating up in the sun. White by
default often has no steel (unless specified for a load bearing bay
window) but can be bought with steel.

The hardest part is:

1) Measuring - take 10mm off all round the measured opening size (will
fill with foam and sealant) and check the openings are square.

1b) Do 1) again and preferably again. You cannot take anything off uPVC
to "make it fit".

2) Frame fitting is easy enough. Glazing is not - it's not hard, but
there's a lot of non obvious stuff regarding glazing packers and
knocking the beads in.


Suggest you watch some youtube vids first.


I or many others will be happy to elaborate further on any point.

You can get a really good result and it's not really that hard - but if
you're new to uPVC, research it a bit first - or watch a pro in action
(I was lucky I did).

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:00:36 +0100, Jb wrote:

What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware of
any regulations?

Plenty of regs. B-) They ought to be all in the relevant part of
the building regs on the planningportal site.

*ANY* one will be cheaper than Everest or Anglian. Avoid like the
plague. You may have "standard" windows so off the shelf is a
possibilty there. If you need custom find the local manufacturer or a
fitting company that will do "supply only". They ought to take care
of the measuring etc so if it's wrong...

FENSA, if you don't use a FENSA fitter you are supposed to involve
building control to make sure what you are doing meets the regs.
Donno what happens if you don't but what you have done meets or
exceeds the regs. I guess the only problem might be when you come to
sell and there is no FENSA/BC certificate. But does anybody really
worry about that sort of thing when buying a house?

--
Cheers
Dave.

Jb wrote:

I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty and I'm
think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware of any
regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done this?

Yes, I changed all my windows and doors last year (more or less
single-handed) biggest pitfall will be time taken.

Measure carefully, then measure carefully again ... width brick-to-brick
at top, middle, bottom and height left, centre, right of every opening,
use the smallest measurement in each direction, and subtract 10mm from
that for the window size, it'll seem like a large allowance and you
might be tempted to order them tighter, but really you'll create
yourself extra hassle.

Come the day when the delivery arrives, and the driver has offloaded at
lightning pace and wants a signature to get on his way, make him a
coffee, then tell him in no uncertain terms you'll be inspecting each
side of each pane of glass individually for scratches and won't be
signing a thing until you're happy --- a few weeks later during fitting
I discovered a scratch on one pane which I know for *certain* was done
during transit but the company refused to accept that, in the end it was
a small pane and I paid their cost price to replace it, as I couldn't
live with having a scratched unit, but still bloody annoying.

Make sure the combination of frame and sealed units do comply to
relevant energy ratings (doesn't have to be A rated argon filled gold
plated etc)

make sure all your openings have a lintel above them (take photos) make
sure you order toughened glass in all locations where you should
(they'll get kitemarked)

As you're fitting yourself you won't get FENSA approval, but you don't
need that -- you can either get them signed off under a building regs
application, or just wing it, at any future sale of house you might be
asked for fensa docs, or building regs sign-off, or need to pay for an
indemnity policy, or you could get a retrospective approval at that
point (those photos might come in handy).

I found a cordless sabre saw very handy for chopping out the old wooden
frames, not sure if that will be true for old alu frames.

in terms of fitting, start with the smallest ones with smallest number
of openers first, work your way up to doors and large windows with
multiple openers. Don't expect to fit more than one or two per day,
internally glazed and beaded windows means you can do the upstairs ones
from entirely within the house.

I used a set of windbags

http://www.winbag.dk/

to align and hold the frames for drilling and fixing, without those it
would be far more of a two-man job, as it was I just needed a bit of
assistance with hauling the largest units into place.

also buy yourself a decent foam gun, decent sealant gun (PC COX), white
rubber mallet for knocking the beads in.

On 10/06/14 20:40, Tim Watts wrote:

However, I can also tell you that 2 BCOs I've met will look at it if
it's part of a wider job, but really don't care and mostly certainly
would not seek remedy against breaches.

I should clarify that - they would not care about Part L breaches.

They *would* care about fire escape (egress) factors and windows where
toughened glass was required but omitted as Phil said.

On 10/06/14 20:46, Andy Burns wrote:

I used a set of windbags

http://www.winbag.dk/

Those are *neat* - Wish I'd had some (it was a 2 man job!)

On 10/06/14 20:46, Andy Burns wrote:

also buy yourself a decent foam gun, decent sealant gun (PC COX), white
rubber mallet for knocking the beads in.

A pair of glazing shovels:

http://www.dortechdirect.co.uk/windo...ing-glass.html

cost bugger all and are *very* handy. However some wooden wedges would
also work.

Also - make sure the frame company give you enough bridge-packers.
Glazing packers are easy to buy an assorted job lot. Bridge packers are
hard to buy "just a few" and ideally should match the frame (not
essensial, just easier).


Get some frame packers and nice frame fixings (I like Fischer). The
frame packers allow the frame fixings to be done up tight without bowing
the frame. Screwfix do all of this stuff.

On 10/06/14 20:45, Dave Liquorice wrote:
But does anybody really
worry about that sort of thing when buying a house?

Solicitors will ask. I doubt most buyers will actually care though and
it is not a legal requirement - it's just a part of the standard set of
questionnaires.

On 10/06/2014 20:14, Phil L wrote:
Jb wrote:
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty
and I'm think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware
of any regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done
this?
Thanks

Thousands of people have done this.
You need to be aware that any glass (note: *glass* not frame), that is
below 800mm from the inside floor must be toughened, likewise any glass in
doors, or in frames attatched to doors, but suppliers will *only* supply you
with this, you don't get to choose.

Look in your local yellow pages or free papers for upvc window companies,
anyone can buy from them, although if you know someone who has an account,
you may get trade discount.

There are also quite a few places online, although if there's not much
in the price, it's good to deal face to face as a local set up can often
be quite helpful. In both cases, it's important to measure up
accurately before ordering as you won't get a second shot at the sizes.
Using the same source for all will ensure they match of course.

There'll be half a dozen or more posts here shortly to inform you that the
FENSA police will drag you out of bed at 3AM if you change your own windows,
but just ignore them


+1 to that. Who's ever going to check? It's not like the BCO comes
around every weekend to see what you're doing. And anyway, you probably
wouldn't want/be able to install anything much short of regs.
(Undoubtedly someone will be along here soon to tell you that it
invalidates your insurance and you'll never sell your house, or it will
bring down a plague of locusts.)

I watched a team change nearly all the windows in our last place (I'd
never done it before and their price was very good compared with
'national' companies) and they were in and out in a day. I pretty
quickly came to the conclusion that the smaller/normal sized ones are
straightforward and I should have just got them to do the large ones
(10' wide, floor to ceiling). I later did the few that weren't on their
job using off the shelf windows from Wickes, with a little bit of
adjustment (ie lining the brickwork opening with timber strips) to get
the size right. Planning it thoroughly is the key.

I would advise getting one to see how you get on. I'm sure you will
find answers here to any specific questions. I've never looked, but I
bet there are videos on Youtube that are worth a watch.

On 10/06/14 21:10, GMM wrote:

There are also quite a few places online, although if there's not much
in the price, it's good to deal face to face as a local set up can often
be quite helpful.

http://windowsanddoors.co.uk/

are a decent bunch and their product is pretty good (I had 4 windows off
them).

More usefully here, their website is good and lets you play with the
options and see the impact on price.

Tim Watts wrote:
On 10/06/14 20:00, Jb wrote:
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty
and I'm think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be
aware of any regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers
that appear considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al.
Anyone done this?

uPVC - I recommend making sure you get frames with internal steelwork.
Much nicer to work with and much stringer. Non white *tends* to have
steel to compensate for the darker uPVC heating up in the sun. White
by default often has no steel (unless specified for a load bearing bay
window) but can be bought with steel.

The hardest part is:

1) Measuring - take 10mm off all round the measured opening size (will
fill with foam and sealant) and check the openings are square.

1b) Do 1) again and preferably again. You cannot take anything off
uPVC to "make it fit".

I've used an electric planer to take 5mm off each side, top and bottom too
when the need has arose.
Not my measures I might add.

NB, the 'sawdust' or flakes that a leccy planer gives off aren't too much
trouble with timber, a royal PITA with white upvc, they stick to everything,
never rot away and are still highly visible months later.

2) Frame fitting is easy enough. Glazing is not - it's not hard, but
there's a lot of non obvious stuff regarding glazing packers and
knocking the beads in.


Suggest you watch some youtube vids first.


I or many others will be happy to elaborate further on any point.

You can get a really good result and it's not really that hard - but
if you're new to uPVC, research it a bit first - or watch a pro in
action (I was lucky I did).

You do need to becareful at bay windows though, I have heard quite a few
horror stories, and not all from diy jobs either, of leaking around the top
and even of the roof piece collapsing in one case.
I'm sure most would realise there are structural parts here though.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/14 20:14, Phil L wrote:
Jb wrote:
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty
and I'm think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware
of any regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that
appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done
this?
Thanks

Thousands of people have done this.
You need to be aware that any glass (note: *glass* not frame), that is
below 800mm from the inside floor must be toughened, likewise any glass
in
doors, or in frames attatched to doors, but suppliers will *only* supply
you
with this, you don't get to choose.

Look in your local yellow pages or free papers for upvc window companies,
anyone can buy from them, although if you know someone who has an
account,
you may get trade discount.

There'll be half a dozen or more posts here shortly to inform you that
the
FENSA police will drag you out of bed at 3AM if you change your own
windows,
but just ignore them



Yep. Technically, it's a Part L building regs thing that is notifiable.

However, I can also tell you that 2 BCOs I've met will look at it if it's
part of a wider job, but really don't care and mostly certainly would not
seek remedy against breaches.

Solicitors do make noises when selling, but the worst that can happen is
you tell them there are no certs and they tell the buyer who is very
unlikely to want to halt a sale for such trivia.

My thanks for the advice, some really good tips there and I shall attempt a
small downstiars loo windows as a try out. I did look at the Fensa sight but
it looks to be aimed at registered fitters with no mention of DIY. I
haven't spoken to my local BCO on the basis of letting sleeping dogs lie. A
house sale is highly unlikely, if ever, so no worries there.
Again thanks to all



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"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/14 20:46, Andy Burns wrote:

I used a set of windbags

http://www.winbag.dk/

Those are *neat* - Wish I'd had some (it was a 2 man job!)


i bet they could be used for plenty of other things besides fitting windows,

stick one down your trousers at a night club and inflate it when any bird
comes near, pack out the bra of a trannie.... or diy uses too i guess

Gazz wrote:

Tim Watts wrote :

Andy Burns wrote:

http://www.winbag.dk/

Those are *neat*

i bet they could be used for plenty of other things besides fitting windows

I've seen an AA/RAC bloke using one to "gently" force a locked car door.

On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:40:38 +0100, Tim Watts
wrote:


However, I can also tell you that 2 BCOs I've met will look at it if
it's part of a wider job, but really don't care and mostly certainly
would not seek remedy against breaches.

The BCO who signed off my extension checked that the coating was on
the outside of the new windows although he admitted that it wouldn't
make any difference in practice.

On Tuesday, 10 June 2014 20:46:24 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

I used a set of windbags http://www.winbag.dk/

I watched an RAC man break into a car with one of those when the owner* had locked the keys inside - dead easy on frameless doors and apparently works on many fully framed doors too without noise or damage.

Mathew

(*Okay, I admit it - it was me)

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:32:34 +0100, Peter Johnson wrote:

The BCO who signed off my extension checked that the coating was on
the outside of the new windows although he admitted that it wouldn't
make any difference in practice.

Which it?

The coating is useless.
No difference to getting things signed off.
Having that coating inside or outside doesn't matter.

I'm under the impression that coating in is not a Good Idea,
something to do with exploding DG units?

--
Cheers
Dave.

/ Which it?

The coating is useless. No difference to getting things signed off. Having that coating inside or outside doesn't matter.

I'm under the impression that coating in is not a Good Idea, something to do with exploding DG units?/q

Presume the rest are referring to "Low E" ?
What are you on about?

Jim K

After serious thinking Jb wrote :
Hiya
I have a semi with ancient aluminium double glazing that looks taty and I'm
think of replacing
What are the pitfalls of DIY double glazing and do I need to be aware of any
regulations? A quick Google gives quite a few suppliers that appear
considerably cheaper than the likes of Everest et al. Anyone done this?

We had our old DG, which I put in, replaced with new a couple of years
ago. I priced up DIY, national installers, then found a local small
installer to give a price. The latter's price was not much more than
DIY, so I gave them the job.

It was over and done with in 2 - 3 days, whereas I would have taken
much longer. Had I done it, I would have been standing the cost of any
errors.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk