http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

....and here's the same story from the BBC - in 2012...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335

But, blimey, talk about a mountain from a molehill!

It's no more or less than the various services that've been in the US for
a decade or more...

GM's OnStar was probably the first and is probably the best known :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

On 12/05/2014 07:55, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

...and here's the same story from the BBC - in 2012...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335

But, blimey, talk about a mountain from a molehill!

It's no more or less than the various services that've been in the US for
a decade or more...

GM's OnStar was probably the first and is probably the best known :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if "they"
know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it would be
cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished, but no one
would be able to exceed the speed limit without being clocked!

Yes but why is this a problem with so many tvs having cameras and
microphones these days.
I'm sure some nice person will be able to disable this in two shakes of a
pa nthers tail.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"harryagain" wrote in message
...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

...and here's the same story from the BBC - in 2012...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335

But, blimey, talk about a mountain from a molehill!

It's no more or less than the various services that've been in the US for
a decade or more...

Actually it's significantly different

tim

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2014 07:55, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

...and here's the same story from the BBC - in 2012...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335

But, blimey, talk about a mountain from a molehill!

It's no more or less than the various services that've been in the US for
a decade or more...

GM's OnStar was probably the first and is probably the best known :-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if "they" know
where you have been? It seems that in the long run it would be cheaper as,
for example, speed cameras can be abolished, but no one would be able to
exceed the speed limit without being clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Though I still don't know what communication links it uses to send that
message (and who pays for the "contract")

tim

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Yes but why is this a problem with so many tvs having cameras and
microphones these days.

TVs have microphones and cameras? Why?

I'm sure some nice person will be able to disable this in two shakes of a
pa nthers tail.

But why would you want to?

tim

"harryagain" wrote in message
...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.


Except it's not.

It's the industry ideal to have the completely "connected car" and equipment
suppliers and motor manufacturers are working towards it becoming reality
pretty dammed soon.

(Apart from, slightly, more reasonable uses) they want to use it to help
them in their quest for driverless cars. They seem to have this nutty idea
that they can use intra-net communications with surrounding cars to work out
where they all are to avoid the need for all the complicated video
recognition stuff that they are experimenting with at the moment. Except
that the marine industry has already been there and it is strictly forbidden
to create aids that pilot a vessel based upon receiving electronic
communications from surrounding vessels to determine where they are, because
there is a 100% certainly that not all of the surrounding vessels can tell
you - and it ain't gonna be any different with roads!

tim

On Mon, 12 May 2014 11:10:58 +0100
"tim....." wrote:


"Broadback" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2014 07:55, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

...and here's the same story from the BBC - in 2012...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335

But, blimey, talk about a mountain from a molehill!

It's no more or less than the various services that've been in the
US for a decade or more...

GM's OnStar was probably the first and is probably the best
known :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if
"they" know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it
would be cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished,
but no one would be able to exceed the speed limit without being
clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an
accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Though I still don't know what communication links it uses to send
that message (and who pays for the "contract")

tim


That Wikipedia link appears to answer some of those questions.

--
Davey.

On 12/05/2014 11:10, tim..... wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...


Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if "they"
know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it would be
cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished, but no one
would be able to exceed the speed limit without being clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Never underestimate the power of feature creep ;-)

Once someone has the capability to collect ubiquitous tracking data
there are countless ways that it can be data mined and monetised...

E.g. flog it to insurers on the premiss of combating fraud, but also
allowing variable rate charging (more miles, aggressive driving, high
risk locations / roads). Flog it to government for road pricing.

The saving grace is that there may be less appetite for (traffic) law
enforcement - since although it would be relatively easy to issue
automatic fines based on speed etc, the potential for error is large,
and you would very quickly erode any goodwill from the public, which
while we still (notionally at least) have policing by consent is a
requirement for the system to work.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 12 May 2014 16:19:00 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if "they"
know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it would be
cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished, but no one
would be able to exceed the speed limit without being clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an
accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Never underestimate the power of feature creep ;-)

Once someone has the capability to collect ubiquitous tracking data
there are countless ways that it can be data mined and monetised...

Strange how nobody's worried about their mobile phone in this context...

"Davey" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 11:10:58 +0100
"tim....." wrote:


"Broadback" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2014 07:55, Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, harryagain wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

...and here's the same story from the BBC - in 2012...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335

But, blimey, talk about a mountain from a molehill!

It's no more or less than the various services that've been in the
US for a decade or more...

GM's OnStar was probably the first and is probably the best
known :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnStar

Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if
"they" know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it
would be cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished,
but no one would be able to exceed the speed limit without being
clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an
accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Though I still don't know what communication links it uses to send
that message (and who pays for the "contract")

tim


That Wikipedia link appears to answer some of those questions.

That's an American service that provides some features of benefit to the
user

Thus the user pays a month sub

I can't see too many European drivers paying 15 pounds per month to a mobile
operator just for the once-in-a-blue-moon that their car calls "home" in an
emergency

tim



--
Davey.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2014 11:10, tim..... wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...


Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if "they"
know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it would be
cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished, but no one
would be able to exceed the speed limit without being clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an
accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Never underestimate the power of feature creep ;-)

As I know what is actually being developed, the boxes aren't capable of this
creep


Once someone has the capability to collect ubiquitous tracking data

The boxes aren't so capable. They won't have enough memory

tim

If it has enough memory to send location data once, surely it can send it an infinite number of times?? If told to....

Jim K

In message , tim.....
writes

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Yes but why is this a problem with so many tvs having cameras and
microphones these days.

TVs have microphones and cameras? Why?

Well some recent ones do.

It's for Skyping and voice and gesture control


--
Chris French

In article , JimK
scribeth thus
If it has enough memory to send location data once, surely it can send it an
infinite number of times?? If told to....

Jim K


Seems it may be free for Aircraft;?...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27369288
--
Tony Sayer

"JimK" wrote in message
...
If it has enough memory to send location data once, surely it can send it
an infinite number of times?? If told to....

Jim K

Well yes

but then the calculation of how fast you are going down the A27 would have
to be calculated centrally, for 10 million cars on the road all at the same
time (though obviously not all on the A27).

Does that look like a useful way of enforcing traffic rules to you?

tim

Who said it has to be instant?

Straight maths is shurely what compewters are good at?

Jim K

On Mon, 12 May 2014 06:16:32 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.


Nasty EU. Monitoring dressed up as H&S. No guarantees that these
devices will not constantly monitor your driving, just a vague 'not
constantly sending details'.

31 in a 30 and have a crash? Computer says 'guillty'.

JimK wrote

If it has enough memory to send location data once,
surely it can send it an infinite number of times?? If told to....

But it can't be told to do anything, it decides for itself
if the car has crashed and it needs to report the crash.

harryagain scribbled...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.


It's not even news, you ****

http://www.insurethebox.com/

On 12/05/2014 16:46, tim..... wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2014 11:10, tim..... wrote:

"Broadback" wrote in message
...


Think a bout it, if it happens, what does it matter to you if "they"
know where you have been? It seems that in the long run it would be
cheaper as, for example, speed cameras can be abolished, but no one
would be able to exceed the speed limit without being clocked!

It doesn't work like this

It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an
accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Never underestimate the power of feature creep ;-)

As I know what is actually being developed, the boxes aren't capable of
this creep

Those ones, perhaps not... however I have developed kit in the past that
had the capability (fortunately the prat Prescott lost interest in it ;-)

Once someone has the capability to collect ubiquitous tracking data

The boxes aren't so capable. They won't have enough memory

Depends on how often you offload the data presumably...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:01:24 -0700, JimK wrote:

Who said it has to be instant?

OK, it's not instant. It's done later.

Meanwhile, all that data continues to come flooding in.

On Mon, 12 May 2014 22:58:27 +0100, Jabba wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

It's not even news, you ****

http://www.insurethebox.com/

Voluntary insurance boxes are a different kettle of fish entirely.

But you're right that it's not news :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335
(Note date)

Anybody might think that the Wail have brought this up and hyped it to
scarepoint because of what's happening in a week and a bit's time...

Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2014 22:58:27 +0100, Jabba wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

It's not even news, you ****

http://www.insurethebox.com/

Voluntary insurance boxes are a different kettle of fish entirely.

But you're right that it's not news :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335
(Note date)

Anybody might think that the Wail have brought this up and hyped it to
scarepoint because of what's happening in a week and a bit's time...

So decide what you want to vote for.

On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:34:26 +0100, Capitol wrote:

Anybody might think that the Wail have brought this up and hyped it to
scarepoint because of what's happening in a week and a bit's time...

So decide what you want to vote for.

Based on facts and reality, rather than lowest-common denominator
scaremongering, ideally.

Adrian scribbled...


On Mon, 12 May 2014 22:58:27 +0100, Jabba wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ar-UK-tracker-
chips-Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-
technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.

It's not even news, you ****

http://www.insurethebox.com/

Voluntary insurance boxes are a different kettle of fish entirely.

I believe it's the only way young drivers can get insurance. Kid next
door was quoted £8k for his Nova.


But you're right that it's not news :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18677335
(Note date)

Anybody might think that the Wail have brought this up and hyped it to
scarepoint because of what's happening in a week and a bit's time...

New law coming in the US

"...The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has issued a
final rule to require all new vehicles under 10,000 pounds, including
all cars, SUVs, vans, and trucks to have backup cameras by May 1,
2018..."

http://preview.tinyurl.com/mlbp2po

They're also discussing the fitting of GPS in all new cars. Like us,
it's believed they may be used for road pricing. We've already got that
in the form of tax on fuel.

On Tue, 13 May 2014 12:49:37 +0100, Jabba wrote:

Like us, it's believed they may be used for road pricing. We've
already got that in the form of tax on fuel.

That's not road pricing.

Adrian scribbled...


On Tue, 13 May 2014 12:49:37 +0100, Jabba wrote:

Like us, it's believed they may be used for road pricing. We've
already got that in the form of tax on fuel.

That's not road pricing.


The more I drive, the more fuel I use, the more tax I pay. If they
think people will accept 10 pence a mile on top of that, it'll turn into
another poll tax riot.

"chris French" wrote in message
...
In message , tim.....
writes

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Yes but why is this a problem with so many tvs having cameras and
microphones these days.

TVs have microphones and cameras? Why?

Well some recent ones do.

It's for Skyping and voice and gesture control

So when we get annoying adverts, we can show them the finger and they will
report back that people don't like them, and the makers will get the
message?

On 12/05/2014 06:16, harryagain wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.




wonder how long before speed limiters become compulsory, or insurers
hike premiums unless you have them fitted.



--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/

In article , Rick Hughes
scribeth thus
On 12/05/2014 06:16, harryagain wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tracker-chips-
Ministers-admit-powerless-stop-Big-Brother-technology.html#ixzz31Nspu488

It is the Daily Mail mind.




wonder how long before speed limiters become compulsory, or insurers
hike premiums unless you have them fitted.




I'll come .. offered as a price reduction then it will become compulsory
after all its for "your own good" of course;!...

Around 3 to 4 years even quicker if labour get into power and
straightaway if the "greenness" did..
--
Tony Sayer

On 12/05/2014 11:10, tim..... wrote:
....
It just relays your current position if (it thinks) you've had an accident

it doesn't record position on a minute by minute basis.

Though I still don't know what communication links it uses to send that
message (and who pays for the "contract")

AIUI, from what I read about it in Germany, it uses mobile phone
technology to make the call. It was suggested the call out would cost
EUR150, although, in Britain the Fire Brigade can already choose to
charge up to £250 for a non-fire call-out. I presume the fee would be
claimed from the insurance company, in much the same way as the NHS
charges for RTA related treatment.

Colin Bignell