Can someone remind me please as to whether I can mount a 24" double radiator (around 30lbs wt) using the screw-in type PB wall plugs ?

It's either that or a couple of timber straps onto the studs first - inevitably the studs are not where they can be used for the radiator.
Thanks
Rob

When faced with this problem I fastened one radiator bracket to a stud if the other did not match up with a stud then I used these (the 6mm ones). Investing in the setting tool causes less damage to the backside of the PB compared to forcing the fitting to expand by using

http://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nai...hors/cat840108

I have never had anything move using hollow wall anchors even heavier radiators than what you are using.

Richard

On 03/05/2014 20:59, Tricky Dicky wrote:
When faced with this problem I fastened one radiator bracket to a stud if the other did not match up with a stud then I used these (the 6mm ones). Investing in the setting tool causes less damage to the backside of the PB compared to forcing the fitting to expand by using

http://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nai...hors/cat840108

I have never had anything move using hollow wall anchors even heavier radiators than what you are using.

Richard

+1

Alternatives such as
http://www.screwfix.com/p/spit-driva...k-of-100/11923
are ok for lighter loads - but I wouldn't use them for radiators.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Cut out a square of plasterboard behind where the radiator will be and add extra wood strips as needed replace plaster board fill as best but wont be seen as it will be behind the radiator. Thats what I did 25 years ago.

"robgraham" wrote in message
...
Can someone remind me please as to whether I can mount a 24" double
radiator (around 30lbs wt) using the screw-in type PB wall plugs ?

It's either that or a couple of timber straps onto the studs first -
inevitably the studs are not where they can be used for the radiator.
Thanks
Rob

You can cut out the plasterboard behind the radiator and put in (screws to
timber) a bit of 20mm ply, paint it and screw radiator brackets to that.
It is thicker than the plasterboard but it won't be noticed behind the
radiator.

On 03 May 2014, Tricky Dicky grunted:

When faced with this problem I fastened one radiator bracket to a stud
if the other did not match up with a stud then I used these (the 6mm
ones).

I've certainly done that once in a while and got away with it; depends on
how big and heavy a radiator you're talking about really.

But certainly much better to remove a bit of plasterboard and insert some
timber, as others have said - it's all going to be hidden behind the
radiator anyway so doesn't need to be particularly pretty; very quick and
easy job so a bit of a no-brainer really.

Investing in the setting tool causes less damage to the
backside of the PB compared to forcing the fitting to expand by using

http://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nai...l-anchors/cat8
40108

What exactly does this do and how does it work? News to me!

--
David

"curious" wrote in message
...
Cut out a square of plasterboard behind where the radiator will be and add
extra wood strips as needed replace plaster board fill as best but wont be
seen as it will be behind the radiator. Thats what I did 25 years ago.


+1

--
Adam

Lobster wrote:

Tricky Dicky wrote:

http://screwfix.com/p/p/92462

What exactly does this do and how does it work?

It uses a trigger mechanism to squeeze the fixing and expand the "arms",
rather than tightening the bolt (while it spins) to do it, means less
chance of damaging the P/B.

"Lobster" wrote in message
. 236...
On 03 May 2014, Tricky Dicky grunted:

When faced with this problem I fastened one radiator bracket to a stud
if the other did not match up with a stud then I used these (the 6mm
ones).

I've certainly done that once in a while and got away with it; depends on
how big and heavy a radiator you're talking about really.

But certainly much better to remove a bit of plasterboard and insert some
timber, as others have said - it's all going to be hidden behind the
radiator anyway so doesn't need to be particularly pretty; very quick and
easy job so a bit of a no-brainer really.

Investing in the setting tool causes less damage to the
backside of the PB compared to forcing the fitting to expand by using

http://www.screwfix.com/c/screws-nai...l-anchors/cat8
40108

What exactly does this do and how does it work? News to me!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORk26erBUS4

--
Adam

On 04/05/2014 10:37, Andy Burns wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Tricky Dicky wrote:

http://screwfix.com/p/p/92462

What exactly does this do and how does it work?

It uses a trigger mechanism to squeeze the fixing and expand the "arms",
rather than tightening the bolt (while it spins) to do it, means less
chance of damaging the P/B.



Yes, you drill a hole and push the complete fitting in. Then the tool
engages between the flange and the bolt head. When you squeeze the
trigger, the bolt head is pulled outwards, pulling the nut towards the
back of the plasterboard and - as Andy says - spreading the arms, which
double up and grip the back of the plasterboard.

You can then remove the bolt and feed it through your heavy object and
screw it back into the firmly attached nut.

As others have said, you *can* fix the fittings by pushing them in and
tightening the screw - but you then have a hell of a job stopping the
whole thing from rotating and enlarging the hole in the plasterboard.
The flange has some little barbs which dig into the plasterboard to try
to prevent this - but they are often (in my experience!) not sufficient.
Using the setting tool makes it a whole lot easier.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:24:13 PM UTC+1, robgraham wrote:

Can someone remind me please as to whether I can mount a 24" double radiator (around 30lbs wt) using the screw-in type PB wall plugs ?

It's either that or a couple of timber straps onto the studs first - inevitably the studs are not where they can be used for the radiator.

A perennial question needing a wiki page.

Options:
Toggle PB fixings
The PB fixings that use a setting tool
Fit a Noggin
Screw at least one side to an upright

Opinions as to how much people would hang off a PB point fixing vary greatly. Having had single coathooks on toggles fail I wouldnt do it at all. On the other hand some people have hung fairly large rads on PB and got away with it.


NT

On 04/05/2014 10:43, ARW wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message


What exactly does this do and how does it work? News to me!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORk26erBUS4


Wish I'd seen that before posting my lengthy verbal explanation!

The only thing I would take issue with is his 1/4" hole. All the fixings
I had used have needed a 9mm hole. [Probably designed for 10mm - but a
nice tight fit in a 9mm hole].
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On Sun, 4 May 2014 03:39:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:24:13 PM UTC+1, robgraham wrote:

Can someone remind me please as to whether I can mount a 24" double radiator (around 30lbs wt) using the screw-in type PB wall plugs ?

It's either that or a couple of timber straps onto the studs first - inevitably the studs are not where they can be used for the radiator.

A perennial question needing a wiki page.

Options:
Toggle PB fixings
The PB fixings that use a setting tool
Fit a Noggin
Screw at least one side to an upright

Opinions as to how much people would hang off a PB point fixing vary greatly. Having had single coathooks on toggles fail I wouldnt do it at all. On the other hand some people have hung fairly large rads on PB and got away with it.


NT

I live in Housing Ass flat, when they upgraded the kitchens a couple
of years ago, they hung large wall cabinets using PB wall plugs
The units are used for kitchen plates and food storage so become
heavy!

I put an extra cupboard up, and cut through the plasterboard and
fitted 2 battens direct to the block work.
Mick.

On 04/05/2014 11:39, wrote:
On Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:24:13 PM UTC+1, robgraham wrote:

Can someone remind me please as to whether I can mount a 24" double radiator (around 30lbs wt) using the screw-in type PB wall plugs ?

It's either that or a couple of timber straps onto the studs first - inevitably the studs are not where they can be used for the radiator.

A perennial question needing a wiki page.

Options:
Toggle PB fixings

I would never ever use toggles. If you need to remove the item for any
reason, the toggle falls down inside the void, never to be seen again. Ugh!

The PB fixings that use a setting tool

Excellent for most things.

Fit a Noggin
Screw at least one side to an upright

Opinions as to how much people would hang off a PB point fixing vary greatly. Having had single coathooks on toggles fail I wouldnt do it at all. On the other hand some people have hung fairly large rads on PB and got away with it.


For items whose weight is close to the wall so that the fitting is
mainly in shear rather than in tension, you can get away with quite high
loads.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

In article , Roger Mills
writes

Yes, you drill a hole and push the complete fitting in. Then the tool
engages between the flange and the bolt head. When you squeeze the
trigger, the bolt head is pulled outwards, pulling the nut towards the
back of the plasterboard and - as Andy says - spreading the arms, which
double up and grip the back of the plasterboard.

You can then remove the bolt and feed it through your heavy object and
screw it back into the firmly attached nut.

As others have said, you *can* fix the fittings by pushing them in and
tightening the screw - but you then have a hell of a job stopping the
whole thing from rotating and enlarging the hole in the plasterboard.
The flange has some little barbs which dig into the plasterboard to try
to prevent this - but they are often (in my experience!) not sufficient.
Using the setting tool makes it a whole lot easier.

Setting tool essential in my view.

Further tips:

Don't use too much force with the setting tool, the fixings are made
down to a price and have nasty formed threads than can be pulled through
too easily.

Using a longer fixing than absolutely necessary results in spreading the
load over a larger area as the spread wings will be wider. Be aware that
the longest ones are intended for use in thicker panels so may have a
minimum fixing thickness greater than a single sheet of PB.

For heavier items use extra fixings to spread the load. Rad brackets are
perfect for this as they are long and have a flat back, fix every
50-75mm or so, drilling extra holes in the bracket if reqd.

Don't place the fixings too close together as the idea is to spread the
load over as large an area as possible in an inherently weak material.

With rads, don't forget that the dead weight may not be the most
significant load, people will lean or sit on them and wont think twice
about pulling themselves up from a sitting position using whatever
fixture is handy (cue lying on back with the whole lot on top of them).

If in any doubt, spread the load over an even larger area by fixing a
sheet of 12mm ply to the wall with an array of these fixings then fix
the rad (or other item) to that. Sizing the ply to be a couple of inches
smaller than the object, chamfering the edge and painting it the same
colour as the wall makes it virtually invisible.

The last method is strongly recommended if you only have 8mm PB, it
really isn't that strong. I only use 12mm PB but builders may well have
used 8.

One thing missed on the video was that a single pull on the setting tool
handle will not always fully set the fixing, use the (silent) ratchet
action to complete the setting and re-tighten the screw into the fixing
to reduce the exposed length during setting if required.

Expect the screw to become a little tight in the fixing after setting as
there is no guarantee that it will have set perfectly in line with the
through hole. If the screw feels too tight you have probably overdone
the setting and have risked damaging the thread on the fixing.

Do not tap the fixing into the wall with a hammer if the screw is
fitted, you will weaken the formed threads.

There, that wasn't long at all . . . .

--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

"Roger Mills" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2014 10:43, ARW wrote:
"Lobster" wrote in message


What exactly does this do and how does it work? News to me!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORk26erBUS4


Wish I'd seen that before posting my lengthy verbal explanation!

The only thing I would take issue with is his 1/4" hole. All the fixings I
had used have needed a 9mm hole. [Probably designed for 10mm - but a nice
tight fit in a 9mm hole].


But the video was made in the USA:-) They do not know what 9mm is.

I would not be happy using the awl to check for studs. It could damage the
back of the plasterboard and make the anchor fixing weak.

--
Adam

Roger Mills wrote:

ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORk26erBUS4

The only thing I would take issue with is his 1/4" hole. All the fixings
I had used have needed a 9mm hole.

They don't import mm over there, I did notice that despite saying 1/4"
was perfect, he gave it a good waggle.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2014-05-04, ARW wrote:

But the video was made in the USA:-) They do not know what 9mm is.

Of course they do. It's an ammunition size.


:-)

--
Adam

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, May 3, 2014 8:24:13 PM UTC+1, robgraham wrote:

snip On the other hand some people have hung fairly large rads on PB and
got away with it.

And others like the **** that owned the house before me didn't, and still
didn't learn 3 times later.....

4 foot wide double rad in what was the kids bedroom, brackets fixed to the
PB wall with 4 fixings (despite 4 holes per bracket) straight through the PB
with the nearest stud a good 9 inches away from either bracket,

i wondered why such a large hole in the floor for the radiator tails, then
found out the rad had been fixed in exactly the same way at least twice
before, and pulled off the wall... so he moved the rad sideways a little and
fixed it in the same way again!!

To make matters worse, there is easy access to the back of that particular
wall, as it's one of the dormer walls, and in the other room there is a 3/4
height door giving access to the roof space that had not been converted into
the dormer (back bedroom without a dormer, but goes in an L shape around to
the front)

Dozy **** could have put battons on the wall so easily, but for some reason
wanted to persist with the hollow wall anchor jobbies even after the rad had
been pulled off the wall twice before.... mind, this is the house that the
back upstairs bedroom floor was standard chipboard, which had began to
crumble, so my foot went through in 3 places.

On 03/05/2014 23:01, curious wrote:
Cut out a square of plasterboard behind where the radiator will be and add extra wood strips as needed replace plaster board fill as best but wont be seen as it will be behind the radiator. Thats what I did 25 years ago.


While less elegant, I've "surface mounted" a suitable piece of 12 mm ply
on lath and plaster walls, fixing it to the studs and fixing the
brackets to the plywood. It doesn't really show and is less work than
"setting in", also since some of the rad is now a bit further from the
wall it potentially improves the heat transfer a shade. (Did this in a
room where the rad is a shade undersized with no opportunity to fit a
bigger one).

On 04/05/2014 13:43, Andy Burns wrote:
Roger Mills wrote:

ARW wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORk26erBUS4

The only thing I would take issue with is his 1/4" hole. All the fixings
I had used have needed a 9mm hole.

They don't import mm over there, I did notice that despite saying 1/4"
was perfect, he gave it a good waggle.


You'd have to waggle a 1/4" drill a hell of a lot to make a 9mm hole!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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