On 2018-12-23 10:34 a.m., Scott wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

you can

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

We are actually talking about the safety of particular bulb
socket types and if you care about the risk with ES sockets,
its easy to use ES sockets which have no risk.

On 2018-12-23 11:12 a.m., Scott wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.


hi scott

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:36:46 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

We are actually talking about the safety of particular bulb
socket types and if you care about the risk with ES sockets,
its easy to use ES sockets which have no risk.

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk
of touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed? I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity
must be 50/50.

And how do you use 'ES sockets which have no risk' if a table lamp is
fully manufactured on delivery? Can they be retrofitted?

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:37:25 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


I would have though the lack of locking mechanical security could lead to
loose connections, arcing and a fire risk.

In practice I've never had anything like that with mine

Looks like hardly anyone gives a **** anymore about what you have to say,
what you had or didn't have, senile Rot. Slowly things on Usenet are
turning out for you like things have turned out for you in real life
already long time ago, you obnoxious senile pest!

--
Marland addressing bull****ting senile Rot:
"Stay in your wet paper bag you thick twit."
MID:

On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 19:28:39 +0000, Scott wrote:

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk of
touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed? I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity must
be 50/50.

With a contact only at the base (inner end) of the screw thread in the
HOLDER, the metal thread on the BULB doesn't become (potentially) live
until the bulb is nearly all the way in (and presumabley the metal part
is now shrouded).



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:36:46 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
news:hsav1e9u3frrl190t031j1dvui2t44a91v@4ax. com...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

We are actually talking about the safety of particular bulb
socket types and if you care about the risk with ES sockets,
its easy to use ES sockets which have no risk.

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk
of touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed?

By ensuring that it isnt in contact with the side contact until it has
been screwed right into the socket and having the non conducting
screw socket cover the metal part of the bulb completely.

I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity
must be 50/50.

And how do you use 'ES sockets which have no risk' if a table lamp is
fully manufactured on delivery? Can they be retrofitted?

You can obviously only buy table lamps which have non
conducting screw sockets and side contact that only contact
the bulb when the bulb is fully screwed into the socket.

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 08:31:42 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:36:46 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
news:hsav1e9u3frrl190t031j1dvui2t44a91v@4ax .com...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

We are actually talking about the safety of particular bulb
socket types and if you care about the risk with ES sockets,
its easy to use ES sockets which have no risk.

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk
of touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed?

By ensuring that it isnt in contact with the side contact until it has
been screwed right into the socket and having the non conducting
screw socket cover the metal part of the bulb completely.

I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity
must be 50/50.

And how do you use 'ES sockets which have no risk' if a table lamp is
fully manufactured on delivery? Can they be retrofitted?

You can obviously only buy table lamps which have non
conducting screw sockets and side contact that only contact
the bulb when the bulb is fully screwed into the socket.

Really? Is there a recognised international marking to make consumers
who do not have electrical skills aware of this?

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 08:31:42 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:36:46 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
news:5ohv1elfg47hns6bc6mofo316dunre2mvr@4ax. com...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
news:hsav1e9u3frrl190t031j1dvui2t44a91v@4a x.com...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

We are actually talking about the safety of particular bulb
socket types and if you care about the risk with ES sockets,
its easy to use ES sockets which have no risk.

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk
of touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed?

By ensuring that it isnt in contact with the side contact until it has
been screwed right into the socket and having the non conducting
screw socket cover the metal part of the bulb completely.

I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity
must be 50/50.

And how do you use 'ES sockets which have no risk' if a table lamp is
fully manufactured on delivery? Can they be retrofitted?

You can obviously only buy table lamps which have non
conducting screw sockets and side contact that only contact
the bulb when the bulb is fully screwed into the socket.

Really?

Yep.

Is there a recognised international marking to make consumers
who do not have electrical skills aware of this?

Don't need one.

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 20:47:18 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 08:31:42 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 05:36:46 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:54:50 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
news:5ohv1elfg47hns6bc6mofo316dunre2mvr@4ax .com...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 04:15:48 +1100, "Tim J" wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message
news:hsav1e9u3frrl190t031j1dvui2t44a91v@4 ax.com...
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 15:34:15 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Even the ES type can be made safer (side contact at the
base, plastic threads).

They look like unglazed porcelain to me.

Don't they also tend to have switching arangement in the base
these days so that the centre contact is only energised when
the bulb is screwed fully home?

Yes, but how do you know that the centre contact carries the live?

You don't need to with the side contact at the base.

I thought the argument was that it might be possible to touch the
'screw' part of the bulb?

Doesn't matter when the screw part is plastic
or ceramic with a side contact at the bottom.

True obviously in that particular set of circumstances but I have seen
plenty of ES bulbs where the construction is metal. I think we are
discussing the safety of the system in general rather than the
specifics of certain bulb types.

We are actually talking about the safety of particular bulb
socket types and if you care about the risk with ES sockets,
its easy to use ES sockets which have no risk.

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk
of touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed?

By ensuring that it isnt in contact with the side contact until it has
been screwed right into the socket and having the non conducting
screw socket cover the metal part of the bulb completely.

I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity
must be 50/50.

And how do you use 'ES sockets which have no risk' if a table lamp is
fully manufactured on delivery? Can they be retrofitted?

You can obviously only buy table lamps which have non
conducting screw sockets and side contact that only contact
the bulb when the bulb is fully screwed into the socket.

Really?

Yep.

Is there a recognised international marking to make consumers
who do not have electrical skills aware of this?

Don't need one.

Okay, I'll ask around tomorrow how to see how many of my friends would
feel competent in carrying out this task: 'Would you be able to
identiify a table lamp with non conducting screw sockets and side
contact?' .

And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such
as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Richard

In article , Tricky
Dicky wrote:

And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such as
a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system
for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Richard

Not always - the 2 pin (either way up) is quite common.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:01:51 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such
as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Is USA +55V / -55V (you know what I mean)?

On 23/12/2018 21:25, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 19:28:39 +0000, Scott wrote:

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk of
touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed? I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity must
be 50/50.

With a contact only at the base (inner end) of the screw thread in the
HOLDER, the metal thread on the BULB doesn't become (potentially) live
until the bulb is nearly all the way in (and presumabley the metal part
is now shrouded).



What when you unscrew it?

Called at the electrical wholesalers today and someone in the shop asked
for a E27 pendant holder. They can get them but they were not in stock.

My first question was "Have you got any E40 pendant holders?"

Oddly enough the hydroponics shop next door did have them.

--
Adam

On Monday, 24 December 2018 17:09:37 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:01:51 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such
as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Is USA +55V / -55V (you know what I mean)?

no. 110v or 110-0-110 split phase.


NT

On Monday, 24 December 2018 17:18:55 UTC, ARW wrote:
On 23/12/2018 21:25, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 19:28:39 +0000, Scott wrote:

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk of
touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed? I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity must
be 50/50.

With a contact only at the base (inner end) of the screw thread in the
HOLDER, the metal thread on the BULB doesn't become (potentially) live
until the bulb is nearly all the way in (and presumabley the metal part
is now shrouded).



What when you unscrew it?

Called at the electrical wholesalers today and someone in the shop asked
for a E27 pendant holder. They can get them but they were not in stock.

My first question was "Have you got any E40 pendant holders?"

Oddly enough the hydroponics shop next door did have them.

E40 has long been standard for a lot of high power lamps including discharge grow lamps. It's been around over a century.


NT

Tricky Dicky wrote

And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted
with a two-pin plug, such as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA
system for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

But dont mandate which of the pins is active and which is neutral.

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:01:51 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such
as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system
for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Is USA +55V / -55V (you know what I mean)?

Nope, its actually +115V / -115V but not on those 2 pin plugs.

On 24/12/2018 17:09, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:01:51 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such
as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Is USA +55V / -55V (you know what I mean)?


No it's 110-0-110 with 220V sockets/appliances being powered phase-antiphase

(Though I have seen some references to 2 of the 3 120degree phases
rarely being used for the higher voltage giving some 190V)

--
Email does not work

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 17:18:54 +0000, ARW wrote:

On 23/12/2018 21:25, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 19:28:39 +0000, Scott wrote:

Maybe I have missed something, but how do you ensure there is no risk of
touching the metal part of the bulb if the polarity is reversed? I
appreciate the risk is low for pendant lights on the ceiling but for a
lamp fitted with a non-polarised plug (such as a europlug) polarity must
be 50/50.

With a contact only at the base (inner end) of the screw thread in the
HOLDER, the metal thread on the BULB doesn't become (potentially) live
until the bulb is nearly all the way in (and presumabley the metal part
is now shrouded).

What when you unscrew it?

Called at the electrical wholesalers today and someone in the shop asked
for a E27 pendant holder. They can get them but they were not in stock.

My first question was "Have you got any E40 pendant holders?"

Oddly enough the hydroponics shop next door did have them.

Assuming still stocked, Ikea has singles or threes already wired, v. cheap.
https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/search/?k...9&summary=true
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 09:25:06 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Monday, 24 December 2018 17:09:37 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 03:01:51 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


And how do you do that if a lamp is fitted with a two-pin plug, such
as a europlug

Yes it is peculiar that ES is widely adopted in Europe, in the USA system for which it was developed they at least have polarised plugs.

Is USA +55V / -55V (you know what I mean)?

no. 110v or 110-0-110 split phase.

Thanks. I think I knew that at one time. Maybe I was thinking of
building sites.

Merry Christmas to all in uk.d-i-y.