Advice appreciated please.
Last autumn we installed 25ft of 7" flue liner to our woodburner. Woodburner
is built into an old fireplace and not readily accessible. Existing flue
swept thoroughly (we thought) before installing liner. Removed chimney pot
and inserted liner. This was a ball breaker as there are 2x bends in the
flue. Also the liner meets the outlet of the woodburner at an angle of about
30deg. Don't ask why, I dont know.
All made good and the woodburner, which we installed in 1984, has provided
all our CH & DHW through the winter.
Last Wednesday night I decided to burn a load of of old papers that I didn't
want in the bin. A while later we had a chimney fire. The chimney breast
upstairs was too hot to hold a hand against. Fire was out by this time as it
was only a bin of papers.
Called the fire brigade who turned up pdq. Good bunch of guys. They located
the source of the heat in the upstairs breast and knocked a 2ft square hole
in it after checking the loft space. Had to loan them by Bosch drill with
chisel to do so. Sure enough, inside of the hole is old soot smouldering
brightly. They said that this may have been burning for days or weeks. They
dragged in a HP hose and 'gave it a drink'. A fair amount of mess ensued,
much to her indoors dismay. After a while it was agreed that the fire was
out. They toddled off at about 02.30 after cups of tea etc.
They returned at 07.00 just to confirm that all was ok. It was. They
returned again at 19.00 to give the house a once over as a home fire safety
check. This was advice really and they didn't find any great problems
although they did point out a couple of non-urgent matters. They also
installed two smoke alarms in addition to the three existing.

Anyway. I'm now left in a situation where I don't know how best to proceed.
I have a woodburner that may be unsafe to use and I want to continue to use
it. The newly installed flue liner is not going to come out again without a
great deal of struggle and I have a 2ft square hole in a bedroom wall. Also
a rather disgruntled better half. The hole in the wall I can certainly deal
with.
All sensible advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick.

Nick wrote:
Advice appreciated please.
Last autumn we installed 25ft of 7" flue liner to our woodburner.
Woodburner is built into an old fireplace and not readily accessible.
Existing flue swept thoroughly (we thought) before installing liner.
Removed chimney pot and inserted liner. This was a ball breaker as
there are 2x bends in the flue. Also the liner meets the outlet of
the woodburner at an angle of about 30deg. Don't ask why, I dont know.
All made good and the woodburner, which we installed in 1984, has
provided all our CH & DHW through the winter.

If the wood burner has been in place for thirty years without problems, why
install a flue liner?


Last Wednesday night I decided to burn a load of of old papers that I
didn't want in the bin. A while later we had a chimney fire. The
chimney breast upstairs was too hot to hold a hand against. Fire was
out by this time as it was only a bin of papers.
Called the fire brigade who turned up pdq. Good bunch of guys. They
located the source of the heat in the upstairs breast and knocked a
2ft square hole in it after checking the loft space. Had to loan them
by Bosch drill with chisel to do so. Sure enough, inside of the hole
is old soot smouldering brightly. They said that this may have been
burning for days or weeks. They dragged in a HP hose and 'gave it a
drink'. A fair amount of mess ensued, much to her indoors dismay.
After a while it was agreed that the fire was out. They toddled off
at about 02.30 after cups of tea etc.

If it had been burning for days or even weeks, I can't see a problem with
allowing it to run it's course.
Cue the naysayers who insist that joists, roof timbers and bedroom skirting
boards all run through the chimney, fact is, they don't, unless your house
is over 150 years old, there's practically zero possibility of structural
timbers being involved.
So basically, you had some soot smouldering within a large column of bricks,
worse case scenario: a bit of cracked plaster to polyfilla next time you
decorate.

They returned at 07.00 just to confirm that all was ok. It was. They
returned again at 19.00 to give the house a once over as a home fire
safety check. This was advice really and they didn't find any great
problems although they did point out a couple of non-urgent matters.
They also installed two smoke alarms in addition to the three
existing.
Anyway. I'm now left in a situation where I don't know how best to
proceed. I have a woodburner that may be unsafe to use and I want to
continue to use it. The newly installed flue liner is not going to
come out again without a great deal of struggle and I have a 2ft
square hole in a bedroom wall. Also a rather disgruntled better half.
The hole in the wall I can certainly deal with.
All sensible advice would be much appreciated.

I took a flue liner out of my chimney, and quite a few others over the
years.
You simply pull them out from above, obviously it needs detatching from the
burner first.
Protip: sheet the entire fireplace / burner / chimney breast before you
remove liner, soot will fall

"Nick" wrote in message
...
Advice appreciated please.
Last autumn we installed 25ft of 7" flue liner to our woodburner.
Woodburner is built into an old fireplace and not readily accessible.
Existing flue swept thoroughly (we thought) before installing liner.
Removed chimney pot and inserted liner. This was a ball breaker as there
are 2x bends in the flue. Also the liner meets the outlet of the
woodburner at an angle of about 30deg. Don't ask why, I dont know.
All made good and the woodburner, which we installed in 1984, has provided
all our CH & DHW through the winter.
Last Wednesday night I decided to burn a load of of old papers that I
didn't want in the bin. A while later we had a chimney fire. The chimney
breast upstairs was too hot to hold a hand against. Fire was out by this
time as it was only a bin of papers.
Called the fire brigade who turned up pdq. Good bunch of guys. They
located the source of the heat in the upstairs breast and knocked a 2ft
square hole in it after checking the loft space. Had to loan them by Bosch
drill with chisel to do so. Sure enough, inside of the hole is old soot
smouldering brightly. They said that this may have been burning for days
or weeks. They dragged in a HP hose and 'gave it a drink'. A fair amount
of mess ensued, much to her indoors dismay. After a while it was agreed
that the fire was out. They toddled off at about 02.30 after cups of tea
etc.
They returned at 07.00 just to confirm that all was ok. It was. They
returned again at 19.00 to give the house a once over as a home fire
safety check. This was advice really and they didn't find any great
problems although they did point out a couple of non-urgent matters. They
also installed two smoke alarms in addition to the three existing.

Anyway. I'm now left in a situation where I don't know how best to
proceed. I have a woodburner that may be unsafe to use and I want to
continue to use it. The newly installed flue liner is not going to come
out again without a great deal of struggle and I have a 2ft square hole in
a bedroom wall. Also a rather disgruntled better half. The hole in the
wall I can certainly deal with.
All sensible advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick.

I have had woodburners for years.
1. There is supposed to be a cleaning hole in the chimney. Tar is formed
when the chimney is cold.
2. Once a week it's a good idea to have a good blaze to burn off any tar
accumulation before they get too big. A pile of newspaper is good for this
as you have discovered. But the accumulation of tar was too big.
3. Your wood MUST be dry. Wet wood is inefficient and cools the combustion
gases so that more tar is formed.
4. 90% of any tar is formed in the top foot of the chimney (where the
combustion gases meet the cold air). If it catches fire, it all tends to
fall down the chimney.
5. Did you use the correct liner for wood? They are usually double skinned.
Ort the annular space is filled with vermiculite.

the annular space is filled with vermiculite.


Very important I would have thought, and might have stopped the soot
getting that hot. ISTR the chimney sweep is usually called before the
flue is installed

Obviously the soot was not removed when it was swept due to the bends in
the flue. I guess it depends if there are a lot of these in hard to gett at
places, but if its the only one, maybe now its burned out its safe again to
plaster up the hole.
Really is difficult to call. I've seen many folk around here have weird
chimney fires after fitting ttrendy heating solutions, but none of the
houses has burned don... yet.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Phil L" wrote in message
...
Nick wrote:
Advice appreciated please.
Last autumn we installed 25ft of 7" flue liner to our woodburner.
Woodburner is built into an old fireplace and not readily accessible.
Existing flue swept thoroughly (we thought) before installing liner.
Removed chimney pot and inserted liner. This was a ball breaker as
there are 2x bends in the flue. Also the liner meets the outlet of
the woodburner at an angle of about 30deg. Don't ask why, I dont know.
All made good and the woodburner, which we installed in 1984, has
provided all our CH & DHW through the winter.

If the wood burner has been in place for thirty years without problems,
why install a flue liner?


Last Wednesday night I decided to burn a load of of old papers that I
didn't want in the bin. A while later we had a chimney fire. The
chimney breast upstairs was too hot to hold a hand against. Fire was
out by this time as it was only a bin of papers.
Called the fire brigade who turned up pdq. Good bunch of guys. They
located the source of the heat in the upstairs breast and knocked a
2ft square hole in it after checking the loft space. Had to loan them
by Bosch drill with chisel to do so. Sure enough, inside of the hole
is old soot smouldering brightly. They said that this may have been
burning for days or weeks. They dragged in a HP hose and 'gave it a
drink'. A fair amount of mess ensued, much to her indoors dismay.
After a while it was agreed that the fire was out. They toddled off
at about 02.30 after cups of tea etc.

If it had been burning for days or even weeks, I can't see a problem with
allowing it to run it's course.
Cue the naysayers who insist that joists, roof timbers and bedroom
skirting boards all run through the chimney, fact is, they don't, unless
your house is over 150 years old, there's practically zero possibility of
structural timbers being involved.
So basically, you had some soot smouldering within a large column of
bricks, worse case scenario: a bit of cracked plaster to polyfilla next
time you decorate.

They returned at 07.00 just to confirm that all was ok. It was. They
returned again at 19.00 to give the house a once over as a home fire
safety check. This was advice really and they didn't find any great
problems although they did point out a couple of non-urgent matters.
They also installed two smoke alarms in addition to the three
existing.
Anyway. I'm now left in a situation where I don't know how best to
proceed. I have a woodburner that may be unsafe to use and I want to
continue to use it. The newly installed flue liner is not going to
come out again without a great deal of struggle and I have a 2ft
square hole in a bedroom wall. Also a rather disgruntled better half.
The hole in the wall I can certainly deal with.
All sensible advice would be much appreciated.

I took a flue liner out of my chimney, and quite a few others over the
years.
You simply pull them out from above, obviously it needs detatching from
the burner first.
Protip: sheet the entire fireplace / burner / chimney breast before you
remove liner, soot will fall

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:28:11 +0100, stuart noble
wrote:


the annular space is filled with vermiculite.


Very important I would have thought, and might have stopped the soot
getting that hot. ISTR the chimney sweep is usually called before the
flue is installed


I understood from the OP that this was the case but it's easy to miss
such detail when the OP appears to be just two long 'indigestible'
paragraphs (or no blank line seperators are used to guarantee the
paragraphs stand out as such).

Formatting the text, even for a 'mere' usenet missive, is the key to
getting your story across. :-)
--
Regards, J B Good

"Phil L" wrote in message
...
If the wood burner has been in place for thirty years without problems,
why install a flue liner?

Because the woodburner exhausted to the original masonry chimney of our 1919
cottage. This chimney failed, for whatever reason, in 2013. Rather scary to
see woodsmoke literally billowing from under the roof tiles of an
inaccessible roof space.

If it had been burning for days or even weeks, I can't see a problem with
allowing it to run it's course.
Cue the naysayers who insist that joists, roof timbers and bedroom
skirting boards all run through the chimney, fact is, they don't, unless
your house is over 150 years old, there's practically zero possibility of
structural timbers being involved.
So basically, you had some soot smouldering within a large column of
bricks, worse case scenario: a bit of cracked plaster to polyfilla next
time you decorate.
I am somewhat inclined to agree with you but safety is paramount. I know
that there are no timbers within the chimney. However they are fairly close.
The chimney has definitely breached allowing smoke into the aforesaid
totally inaccessible roof space (hence the liner).

I took a flue liner out of my chimney, and quite a few others over the
years.
You simply pull them out from above, obviously it needs detatching from
the burner first.
Nothing is ever simple.

Protip: sheet the entire fireplace / burner / chimney breast before you
remove liner, soot will fall
Of course. Was going to be flippant and ask why, but thought better of it.
Thanks for your help,
Nick.

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Obviously the soot was not removed when it was swept due to the bends in
the flue. I guess it depends if there are a lot of these in hard to gett
at places, but if its the only one, maybe now its burned out its safe
again to plaster up the hole.
Really is difficult to call. I've seen many folk around here have weird
chimney fires after fitting ttrendy heating solutions, but none of the
houses has burned don... yet.

Brian

Thanks Brian,
you are quite right in saying that this is a difficult call. There at least
three bends in the masonry chimney. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion
that the liner must be removed. Then chimney inspected and reswept. Then new
liner with terminals installed. Oh, what joy! At least it's the right time
of year to embark on such a venture.
Nick.

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

I have had woodburners for years.
1. There is supposed to be a cleaning hole in the chimney. Tar is formed
when the chimney is cold.
2. Once a week it's a good idea to have a good blaze to burn off any tar
accumulation before they get too big. A pile of newspaper is good for this
as you have discovered. But the accumulation of tar was too big.
3. Your wood MUST be dry. Wet wood is inefficient and cools the combustion
gases so that more tar is formed.
4. 90% of any tar is formed in the top foot of the chimney (where the
combustion gases meet the cold air). If it catches fire, it all tends to
fall down the chimney.
5. Did you use the correct liner for wood? They are usually double
skinned. Ort the annular space is filled with vermiculite.

Thanks Harry,
1. No cleaning hole. Only accessible from top & bottom (about 7m).
2. Normally do and that's what has highlighted this & prev. problems.
3. I use well seasoned hardwood logs. Never tested any for moisture content.
4. Understandable and makes sense.
5. I may be wrong but I don't know of a double skinned flexible liner.
Vermiculite filling makes a lot of sense.
All the best,
Nick.

"Johny B Good" wrote in message
...

I understood from the OP that this was the case but it's easy to miss
such detail when the OP appears to be just two long 'indigestible'
paragraphs (or no blank line seperators are used to guarantee the
paragraphs stand out as such).

Formatting the text, even for a 'mere' usenet missive, is the key to
getting your story across. :-)
--
Regards, J B Good

Thanks JB,

I have been chided on NG's for using too much, or too little, punctuation or
correct format.

I have had the pleasure of using NG's since about 1997. I enjoy them and
they are, to me, a wonderful source of information. I do not, and have
never, regarded usenet as trivial in any way.

As Mr. Lincoln said "--- you can't please all of the people all of the
time".

Sorry if I have miffed you,

Nick.

In message , Nick
writes

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Obviously the soot was not removed when it was swept due to the bends in
the flue. I guess it depends if there are a lot of these in hard to gett
at places, but if its the only one, maybe now its burned out its safe
again to plaster up the hole.
Really is difficult to call. I've seen many folk around here have weird
chimney fires after fitting ttrendy heating solutions, but none of the
houses has burned don... yet.

Brian

Thanks Brian,
you are quite right in saying that this is a difficult call. There at least
three bends in the masonry chimney. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion
that the liner must be removed. Then chimney inspected and reswept. Then new
liner with terminals installed. Oh, what joy! At least it's the right time
of year to embark on such a venture.

I suppose there is no way the fire can be run with a 6" liner? Tempting
to pull a new double skinned down inside the existing.

My 12kW log burner (Clearview) was specified to have a 7" flue so I
expect the installers had a reason.


--
Tim Lamb

/I suppose there is no way the fire can be run with a 6" liner? Tempting to pull a new double skinned down inside the existing.

My 12kW log burner (Clearview) was specified to have a 7" flue so I expect the installers had a reason. /q

Mmm... But on the bends where the soot is the two liners will be pretty much touching so what got hot last time will get hot again next time?

Jim K

On 15/04/2014 17:11, Nick wrote:
5. I may be wrong but I don't know of a double skinned flexible liner.

http://specflue.com/catalogue/product/flexible-flue-liner

Andy

On 14/04/14 20:21, Nick wrote:
Advice appreciated please.
Last autumn we installed 25ft of 7" flue liner to our woodburner. Woodburner
is built into an old fireplace and not readily accessible. Existing flue
swept thoroughly (we thought) before installing liner. Removed chimney pot
and inserted liner. This was a ball breaker as there are 2x bends in the
flue. Also the liner meets the outlet of the woodburner at an angle of about
30deg. Don't ask why, I dont know.
All made good and the woodburner, which we installed in 1984, has provided
all our CH & DHW through the winter.
Last Wednesday night I decided to burn a load of of old papers that I didn't
want in the bin. A while later we had a chimney fire. The chimney breast
upstairs was too hot to hold a hand against. Fire was out by this time as it
was only a bin of papers.
Called the fire brigade who turned up pdq. Good bunch of guys. They located
the source of the heat in the upstairs breast and knocked a 2ft square hole
in it after checking the loft space. Had to loan them by Bosch drill with
chisel to do so. Sure enough, inside of the hole is old soot smouldering
brightly. They said that this may have been burning for days or weeks. They
dragged in a HP hose and 'gave it a drink'. A fair amount of mess ensued,
much to her indoors dismay. After a while it was agreed that the fire was
out. They toddled off at about 02.30 after cups of tea etc.
They returned at 07.00 just to confirm that all was ok. It was. They
returned again at 19.00 to give the house a once over as a home fire safety
check. This was advice really and they didn't find any great problems
although they did point out a couple of non-urgent matters. They also
installed two smoke alarms in addition to the three existing.

Anyway. I'm now left in a situation where I don't know how best to proceed.
I have a woodburner that may be unsafe to use and I want to continue to use
it. The newly installed flue liner is not going to come out again without a
great deal of struggle and I have a 2ft square hole in a bedroom wall. Also
a rather disgruntled better half. The hole in the wall I can certainly deal
with.
All sensible advice would be much appreciated.
Many thanks,
Nick.


I take it this was NOT a double insulated flue liner?

But some flexible abortion?

There is a reason why they wont allow those to be used on modern stacks.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

q/ I take it this was NOT a double insulated flue liner?

But some flexible abortion?/q

As it was fed in from the top I would expect some difficulty navigating 2 bends with anything other than flexible?

Unless you know differently?....

Jim K