These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and oven.
Is it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances.
There are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which
should I use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but
of course that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease.
I don't have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

I'd appreciate any guidance.

There are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s

IRTA...

....Oh, never mind.



--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 24/03/2014 17:50, Fredxxx wrote:
These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

You can use compression joints or solder. Do you particularly need them
to be demountable?

Many ovens will use a flexible hose for the final connection with a
normal bayonet connector.

Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and oven. Is
it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances. There

Yes, I believe so.

are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which should I
use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but of course
that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease. I don't
have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

A lever ball valve is the most commonly used IME.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

(I am not a professional gas fitter - so seek confirmation of the above)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/03/2014 00:05, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/03/2014 17:50, Fredxxx wrote:
These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

You can use compression joints or solder. Do you particularly need them
to be demountable?

Many ovens will use a flexible hose for the final connection with a
normal bayonet connector.

Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and oven. Is
it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances. There

Yes, I believe so.

are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which should I
use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but of course
that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease. I don't
have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

A lever ball valve is the most commonly used IME.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

(I am not a professional gas fitter - so seek confirmation of the above)

Many thanks.

I was aware that flexible pipe can be used, but presumed that a bayonet
fitting behind or underneath kitchen unit would be against form! I also
thought it was forbidden where a hob is above an oven?

Gas Union Nuts seem to be rather rare beasts and not sold by the likes
of Screwfix and not mentioned on some of the more tradition plumbers'
merchants websites?

Access will be dire after fitting the kitchen units, such that I'm
considering plumbing the hob and oven before fitting the kitchen units
to the wall. Then a demountable joint to help fitting of the set of
units where an undercounter fridge is going. If failing to obtain a gas
union joint I'll use a compression coupler as it will at least be
accessible.

Thanks again.

On 03/25/2014 12:05 AM, John Rumm wrote:


Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.


I had a hob fitted just weeks ago by a Gas safe registered installer who
said this wasn't allowed and that he'd come across one just that week.
So following what you said I emailed Gas safe to ask and have just
received the following reply.

"Thank you for your enquiry, generally a gas hob can be fitted using a
flexible hose provided that it can be installed in the appropriate
manner ie hanging in a relaxed U shape not stressed or touching hot
components etc and provided that the appliance manufacturer does not
prohibit such method of installations."

I don't think I'll email him though !

Andy C

On 25/03/2014 12:10, Andy Cap wrote:
On 03/25/2014 12:05 AM, John Rumm wrote:


Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.


I had a hob fitted just weeks ago by a Gas safe registered installer who
said this wasn't allowed and that he'd come across one just that week.
So following what you said I emailed Gas safe to ask and have just
received the following reply.

"Thank you for your enquiry, generally a gas hob can be fitted using a
flexible hose provided that it can be installed in the appropriate
manner ie hanging in a relaxed U shape not stressed or touching hot
components etc and provided that the appliance manufacturer does not
prohibit such method of installations."

I don't think I'll email him though !

To be fair to the fitters, the BS document in question (BS 6172) did
previously have the wrong wording, and it was only corrected in later
editions - having said that, it has been in its current form for 10 years!

The 2004 (and 2010) version has: " 11.1.3 A gas hob shall be connected
to the termination point by means of rigid pipework or, unless stated
otherwise in the manufacturer’s instructions, a flexible connector and
self-sealing plug device conforming to BS 669-1"


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/03/2014 00:49, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:05, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/03/2014 17:50, Fredxxx wrote:
These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

You can use compression joints or solder. Do you particularly need them
to be demountable?

Many ovens will use a flexible hose for the final connection with a
normal bayonet connector.

Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and oven. Is
it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances. There

Yes, I believe so.

are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which should I
use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but of course
that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease. I don't
have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

A lever ball valve is the most commonly used IME.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

(I am not a professional gas fitter - so seek confirmation of the above)

Many thanks.

I was aware that flexible pipe can be used, but presumed that a bayonet
fitting behind or underneath kitchen unit would be against form!

As long as you can get to it to make or break the connection then its
quite normal. In the case of an oven they will often have a bayonet
fitting in the back of the unit that you can only get to when the oven
is pulled out.

I also
thought it was forbidden where a hob is above an oven?

Hobs are more traditionally plumbed in 15mm copper anyway in cases where
you can get to the underside of it once its fitted. (even if that means
the oven needs to go in second).

Gas Union Nuts seem to be rather rare beasts and not sold by the likes
of Screwfix and not mentioned on some of the more tradition plumbers'
merchants websites?

They are typically just BSP female threaded sockets. Sometimes normal
compression fittings. They hob will often come with the fitting anyway.

Access will be dire after fitting the kitchen units, such that I'm
considering plumbing the hob and oven before fitting the kitchen units
to the wall. Then a demountable joint to help fitting of the set of
units where an undercounter fridge is going. If failing to obtain a gas
union joint I'll use a compression coupler as it will at least be
accessible.

I think you may be overcomplicating things... bayonet socket on the back
wall behind the oven cabinet, then 15mm copper piping round to the right
place for the hob inlet with a 15mm leaver ball valve inline.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/03/2014 15:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:49, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:05, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/03/2014 17:50, Fredxxx wrote:
These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

You can use compression joints or solder. Do you particularly need them
to be demountable?

Many ovens will use a flexible hose for the final connection with a
normal bayonet connector.

Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and
oven. Is
it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances. There

Yes, I believe so.

are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which should I
use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but of course
that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease. I don't
have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

A lever ball valve is the most commonly used IME.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

(I am not a professional gas fitter - so seek confirmation of the above)

Many thanks.

I was aware that flexible pipe can be used, but presumed that a bayonet
fitting behind or underneath kitchen unit would be against form!

As long as you can get to it to make or break the connection then its
quite normal. In the case of an oven they will often have a bayonet
fitting in the back of the unit that you can only get to when the oven
is pulled out.

Thanks, that would be the easiest option.

I also
thought it was forbidden where a hob is above an oven?

Hobs are more traditionally plumbed in 15mm copper anyway in cases where
you can get to the underside of it once its fitted. (even if that means
the oven needs to go in second).

With the oven removed I could connect underneath as you say, but it
would result in a compression elbow, or possibly coupler.

Gas Union Nuts seem to be rather rare beasts and not sold by the likes
of Screwfix and not mentioned on some of the more tradition plumbers'
merchants websites?

They are typically just BSP female threaded sockets. Sometimes normal
compression fittings. They hob will often come with the fitting anyway.

The hob has a male 1/2" BSP.

Access will be dire after fitting the kitchen units, such that I'm
considering plumbing the hob and oven before fitting the kitchen units
to the wall. Then a demountable joint to help fitting of the set of
units where an undercounter fridge is going. If failing to obtain a gas
union joint I'll use a compression coupler as it will at least be
accessible.

I think you may be overcomplicating things... bayonet socket on the back
wall behind the oven cabinet, then 15mm copper piping round to the right
place for the hob inlet with a 15mm leaver ball valve inline.

Sounds a good plan. I note the bayonet socket should be pointing down to
stop crud entering, but it would also result in a gentle U behind the oven.

Many thanks for the posts.

On 25/03/2014 23:21, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/03/2014 15:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:49, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:05, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/03/2014 17:50, Fredxxx wrote:
These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

You can use compression joints or solder. Do you particularly need them
to be demountable?

Many ovens will use a flexible hose for the final connection with a
normal bayonet connector.

Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or
can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union
nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and
oven. Is
it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances. There

Yes, I believe so.

are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which should I
use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but of
course
that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease. I don't
have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

A lever ball valve is the most commonly used IME.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

(I am not a professional gas fitter - so seek confirmation of the
above)

Many thanks.

I was aware that flexible pipe can be used, but presumed that a bayonet
fitting behind or underneath kitchen unit would be against form!

As long as you can get to it to make or break the connection then its
quite normal. In the case of an oven they will often have a bayonet
fitting in the back of the unit that you can only get to when the oven
is pulled out.

Thanks, that would be the easiest option.

I also
thought it was forbidden where a hob is above an oven?

Hobs are more traditionally plumbed in 15mm copper anyway in cases where
you can get to the underside of it once its fitted. (even if that means
the oven needs to go in second).

With the oven removed I could connect underneath as you say, but it
would result in a compression elbow, or possibly coupler.

Gas Union Nuts seem to be rather rare beasts and not sold by the likes
of Screwfix and not mentioned on some of the more tradition plumbers'
merchants websites?

They are typically just BSP female threaded sockets. Sometimes normal
compression fittings. They hob will often come with the fitting anyway.

The hob has a male 1/2" BSP.

Is it a taper fitting (probably)? If so a parallel BSP female to 15mm
compression would be fine. If its a parallel male then a taper BSP
female. Make the joint with gas grade PTFE or suitable jointing compound.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...rappingGas.png

Then you can put the BSP adaptor on the hob, test fit it and pipe up the
rigid pipe. Then all you need do on final fitting is make the last
compression joint between pipe and adaptor, and test.

The isolation valve can go elsewhere where it will be more accessible.
Although there is no requirement for one on the bayonet fitting for the
oven, its unlikely to hurt in a domestic environment if it also isolates
that.

I think you may be overcomplicating things... bayonet socket on the back
wall behind the oven cabinet, then 15mm copper piping round to the right
place for the hob inlet with a 15mm leaver ball valve inline.

Sounds a good plan. I note the bayonet socket should be pointing down to
stop crud entering, but it would also result in a gentle U behind the oven.

The down pointing bit is of most importance with free standing cookers,
but its the normal approach. A gentle U is ideal since it does not
stress the hose or connections.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 26/03/2014 01:48, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/03/2014 23:21, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/03/2014 15:28, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:49, Fredxxx wrote:
On 25/03/2014 00:05, John Rumm wrote:
On 24/03/2014 17:50, Fredxxx wrote:
These are to be fitted in a work surface and a kitchen unit.

I want to do the job right such that if inspected there won't be any
issues later.

I've read:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...as_fitting_FAQ
but its a bit quiet in certain areas though gives a good
indication of
determining leak-rate.

Where possible I was going to use end-feed fittings, though the only
demountable fittings I can get are of the compression variety. In the
past I have been able to source gas union joints. Is this OK to use
compression joints if at the back of the units and under the work
surface? Will they be deemed as accessible?

You can use compression joints or solder. Do you particularly need
them
to be demountable?

Many ovens will use a flexible hose for the final connection with a
normal bayonet connector.

Hobs (contrary to popular belief) can also use flexible hoses, or
can be
rigid piped. The final connection the hob usually being a gas union
nut,
such that it can be disconnected there.

I understand there ought to be a means of isolating the hob and
oven. Is
it acceptable for this to be a single valve for both appliances.
There

Yes, I believe so.

are "Fan Key Gas Cock"s and "Isolating Gas Ball Valve. Which
should I
use? I can get the Fan Key Gas Cock in a capillary form, but of
course
that will require dismantling and reassembly with new grease. I don't
have the proper grease at hand, will alternatives be OK?

A lever ball valve is the most commonly used IME.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

(I am not a professional gas fitter - so seek confirmation of the
above)

Many thanks.

I was aware that flexible pipe can be used, but presumed that a bayonet
fitting behind or underneath kitchen unit would be against form!

As long as you can get to it to make or break the connection then its
quite normal. In the case of an oven they will often have a bayonet
fitting in the back of the unit that you can only get to when the oven
is pulled out.

Thanks, that would be the easiest option.

I also
thought it was forbidden where a hob is above an oven?

Hobs are more traditionally plumbed in 15mm copper anyway in cases where
you can get to the underside of it once its fitted. (even if that means
the oven needs to go in second).

With the oven removed I could connect underneath as you say, but it
would result in a compression elbow, or possibly coupler.

Gas Union Nuts seem to be rather rare beasts and not sold by the likes
of Screwfix and not mentioned on some of the more tradition plumbers'
merchants websites?

They are typically just BSP female threaded sockets. Sometimes normal
compression fittings. They hob will often come with the fitting anyway.

The hob has a male 1/2" BSP.

Is it a taper fitting (probably)? If so a parallel BSP female to 15mm
compression would be fine. If its a parallel male then a taper BSP
female. Make the joint with gas grade PTFE or suitable jointing compound.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?...rappingGas.png

Then you can put the BSP adaptor on the hob, test fit it and pipe up the
rigid pipe. Then all you need do on final fitting is make the last
compression joint between pipe and adaptor, and test.

Is it ok to use a flexible plumbing stick for final fitting to the hob?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-c...-x-300mm/61598

It would save a lot of marrying up of pipe and hob. It could also move
the only compression joint to a visible location.

The isolation valve can go elsewhere where it will be more accessible.
Although there is no requirement for one on the bayonet fitting for the
oven, its unlikely to hurt in a domestic environment if it also isolates
that.

Thanks, it is convenient to have both isolated by the same valve.

I think you may be overcomplicating things... bayonet socket on the back
wall behind the oven cabinet, then 15mm copper piping round to the right
place for the hob inlet with a 15mm leaver ball valve inline.

Sounds a good plan. I note the bayonet socket should be pointing down to
stop crud entering, but it would also result in a gentle U behind the
oven.

The down pointing bit is of most importance with free standing cookers,
but its the normal approach. A gentle U is ideal since it does not
stress the hose or connections.

I think the current one is horizontal!

Many thanks.

In article ,
Fredxxx writes:
Is it ok to use a flexible plumbing stick for final fitting to the hob?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-c...-x-300mm/61598

It would save a lot of marrying up of pipe and hob. It could also move
the only compression joint to a visible location.

I've never seen these used with gas, only stainless steel ones, but
not in that circumstance.

TBH, I regard them as a bit of a bodge product to use even with water.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 26/03/2014 11:59, Fredxxx wrote:
On 26/03/2014 01:48, John Rumm wrote:

Then you can put the BSP adaptor on the hob, test fit it and pipe up the
rigid pipe. Then all you need do on final fitting is make the last
compression joint between pipe and adaptor, and test.

Is it ok to use a flexible plumbing stick for final fitting to the hob?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/flexible-c...-x-300mm/61598


It would save a lot of marrying up of pipe and hob. It could also move
the only compression joint to a visible location.

I can't really see the need...

You slap something like

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/140.asp#6655

on to the male BSP spigot on the hob. Drop it in place, then sort out
your pipe run from the wall to the compression fitting on the bottom of
the coupler.

Of if you want posh, then there is

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/005a.asp

(item 12880)

The down pointing bit is of most importance with free standing cookers,
but its the normal approach. A gentle U is ideal since it does not
stress the hose or connections.

I think the current one is horizontal!

Well it better than pointing up were it could collect crumbs etc.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/