Some years ago I wondered about the cost-effectiveness of asking for
disconnection of the supply to a flat (it was expected to remain empty
for some time, and it annoyed me to have to pay the standing charge).

Recently I received an estimated bill for a different flat which was
too high because I was no longer living there, emailed actual figures,
and until recently was too busy to visit again to see if a revised bill
had been posted.
I just received a belated reply to my email, reducing the bill to 1/2
what it was and making threats about this 'overdue bill'.

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection? It probably involves
only pulling a fuse in their supply box.
In this case I don't think I seriously mean it (but in future who
knows?).
Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:30:31 GMT, Windmill wrote:

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection?

More than a year or two's standing charge I expect...

Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

Just switch to a tariff that has no standing charge. nPower PriceFix
April 2015 doesn't have one, unit cost is a bit higher than the
cheapest with standing charge but as you are only using a tiny
amount, if any, the unit cost isn't particularly relevant.

Ebico are another flat rate only pay for what you use supplier. We
used to be with Ebico but that nPower tariff was cheaper, no
cancellation fee either. Comparison sites are your friend. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article ,
lid (Windmill) writes:
Some years ago I wondered about the cost-effectiveness of asking for
disconnection of the supply to a flat (it was expected to remain empty
for some time, and it annoyed me to have to pay the standing charge).

Recently I received an estimated bill for a different flat which was
too high because I was no longer living there, emailed actual figures,
and until recently was too busy to visit again to see if a revised bill
had been posted.
I just received a belated reply to my email, reducing the bill to 1/2
what it was and making threats about this 'overdue bill'.

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection? It probably involves
only pulling a fuse in their supply box.
In this case I don't think I seriously mean it (but in future who
knows?).
Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

They have been known to refuse to reconnect without a recent inspection
certificate, and they might well insist it's to current regs when
connecting a new supply, which the existing installation probably won't
be.

It might go swimingly well, but just beware of the potential problem.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 13/03/14 11:43, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
lid (Windmill) writes:
Some years ago I wondered about the cost-effectiveness of asking for
disconnection of the supply to a flat (it was expected to remain empty
for some time, and it annoyed me to have to pay the standing charge).

Recently I received an estimated bill for a different flat which was
too high because I was no longer living there, emailed actual figures,
and until recently was too busy to visit again to see if a revised bill
had been posted.
I just received a belated reply to my email, reducing the bill to 1/2
what it was and making threats about this 'overdue bill'.

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection? It probably involves
only pulling a fuse in their supply box.
In this case I don't think I seriously mean it (but in future who
knows?).
Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

They have been known to refuse to reconnect without a recent inspection
certificate, and they might well insist it's to current regs when
connecting a new supply, which the existing installation probably won't
be.

It might go swimingly well, but just beware of the potential problem.


EDF asked for my NICEIC number when pulling the cutout fuse at my
request so I could add a new consumer unit (all old wiring ripped out at
this point).

When I told the bloke I didn't have one and was doing the work under
building control he looked surprised. However, when he looked at my
super neat tails presented and check the CU for polarity, he was happy
enough - and even upgraded my meter connection to 25mm2 from 16mm2. And
didn't moan too much about the 100A isolator I had installed in the
meter box.

Still, it was probably the first box he'd seen with heavy duty 32mm
Kopex plastic conduit taking the tails and earths (MET in meter box)
through the bungalow soffit rather than just ramming the tails between a
couple of bricks with the mortar joint raked out!

The Megger hanging conspicuously next to the CU maybe helped too!

On 13/03/2014 12:00, Tim Watts wrote:


EDF asked for my NICEIC number when pulling the cutout fuse at my
request so I could add a new consumer unit (all old wiring ripped out at
this point).

When I told the bloke I didn't have one and was doing the work under
building control he looked surprised. However, when he looked at my
super neat tails presented and check the CU for polarity, he was happy
enough - and even upgraded my meter connection to 25mm2 from 16mm2. And
didn't moan too much about the 100A isolator I had installed in the
meter box.

Still, it was probably the first box he'd seen with heavy duty 32mm
Kopex plastic conduit taking the tails and earths (MET in meter box)
through the bungalow soffit rather than just ramming the tails between a
couple of bricks with the mortar joint raked out!

The Megger hanging conspicuously next to the CU maybe helped too!


No FIEE certificate hanging in the hall?

:-)

On 13/03/14 12:07, newshound wrote:
On 13/03/2014 12:00, Tim Watts wrote:


EDF asked for my NICEIC number when pulling the cutout fuse at my
request so I could add a new consumer unit (all old wiring ripped out at
this point).

When I told the bloke I didn't have one and was doing the work under
building control he looked surprised. However, when he looked at my
super neat tails presented and check the CU for polarity, he was happy
enough - and even upgraded my meter connection to 25mm2 from 16mm2. And
didn't moan too much about the 100A isolator I had installed in the
meter box.

Still, it was probably the first box he'd seen with heavy duty 32mm
Kopex plastic conduit taking the tails and earths (MET in meter box)
through the bungalow soffit rather than just ramming the tails between a
couple of bricks with the mortar joint raked out!

The Megger hanging conspicuously next to the CU maybe helped too!


No FIEE certificate hanging in the hall?

:-)

No :-|

Though I keep meaning to join - but under the computing arm. So hanging
an MIET cert up under such conditions might be a little naughty

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 13/03/14 11:43, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
lid (Windmill) writes:
Some years ago I wondered about the cost-effectiveness of asking for
disconnection of the supply to a flat (it was expected to remain empty
for some time, and it annoyed me to have to pay the standing charge).

Recently I received an estimated bill for a different flat which was
too high because I was no longer living there, emailed actual figures,
and until recently was too busy to visit again to see if a revised bill
had been posted.
I just received a belated reply to my email, reducing the bill to 1/2
what it was and making threats about this 'overdue bill'.

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection? It probably involves
only pulling a fuse in their supply box.
In this case I don't think I seriously mean it (but in future who
knows?).
Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

They have been known to refuse to reconnect without a recent inspection
certificate, and they might well insist it's to current regs when
connecting a new supply, which the existing installation probably won't
be.

It might go swimingly well, but just beware of the potential problem.


EDF asked for my NICEIC number when pulling the cutout fuse at my
request so I could add a new consumer unit (all old wiring ripped out at
this point).

When I told the bloke I didn't have one and was doing the work under
building control he looked surprised. However, when he looked at my
super neat tails presented and check the CU for polarity, he was happy
enough - and even upgraded my meter connection to 25mm2 from 16mm2. And
didn't moan too much about the 100A isolator I had installed in the
meter box.

Still, it was probably the first box he'd seen with heavy duty 32mm
Kopex plastic conduit taking the tails and earths (MET in meter box)
through the bungalow soffit rather than just ramming the tails between a
couple of bricks with the mortar joint raked out!

I've never been asked either - if the installation looks neat and
professional, you might get away with it.

It's not a requirement that an installation conforms to wiring regs
to be connected, just that it has to be safe. The easiest way for
them to check that is to ask for a certificate, and that way they
are not taking responsibility for checking the safety. An installation
conforming to anything from 14th Ed regs onwards should have no
arguments in theory, although they probably do expect at least the
earthing and service bonding to be nearer to current regs.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Dave Liquorice" writes:

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 09:30:31 GMT, Windmill wrote:

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection?

More than a year or two's standing charge I expect...

Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

Just switch to a tariff that has no standing charge. nPower PriceFix
April 2015 doesn't have one, unit cost is a bit higher than the
cheapest with standing charge but as you are only using a tiny
amount, if any, the unit cost isn't particularly relevant.

Ebico are another flat rate only pay for what you use supplier. We
used to be with Ebico but that nPower tariff was cheaper, no
cancellation fee either. Comparison sites are your friend. B-)

A few years ago, tenants who left seemed to have had a 'no standing
charge' tariff, which was in turn helpful for me, but when I've tried
to arrange that myself I've had a lot of resistance from the supplier
(surprise!).
Of course persistence for a sufficient number of months would doubtless
succeed, but I'm slow moving and have a couple of thousand projects
many of which I no doubt should never have begun.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

In article ,
lid (Windmill) writes:
Some years ago I wondered about the cost-effectiveness of asking for
disconnection of the supply to a flat (it was expected to remain empty
for some time, and it annoyed me to have to pay the standing charge).

Recently I received an estimated bill for a different flat which was
too high because I was no longer living there, emailed actual figures,
and until recently was too busy to visit again to see if a revised bill
had been posted.
I just received a belated reply to my email, reducing the bill to 1/2
what it was and making threats about this 'overdue bill'.

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection? It probably involves
only pulling a fuse in their supply box.
In this case I don't think I seriously mean it (but in future who
knows?).
Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

They have been known to refuse to reconnect without a recent inspection
certificate, and they might well insist it's to current regs when
connecting a new supply, which the existing installation probably won't
be.

It might go swimingly well, but just beware of the potential problem.

Hadn't considerd that possibility. Best reserved for cases where the
installation is new, I suppose.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

In article ,
Tim Watts writes:
On 13/03/14 11:43, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
lid (Windmill) writes:
Some years ago I wondered about the cost-effectiveness of asking for
disconnection of the supply to a flat (it was expected to remain empty
for some time, and it annoyed me to have to pay the standing charge).

Recently I received an estimated bill for a different flat which was
too high because I was no longer living there, emailed actual figures,
and until recently was too busy to visit again to see if a revised bill
had been posted.
I just received a belated reply to my email, reducing the bill to 1/2
what it was and making threats about this 'overdue bill'.

So I'm again wondering about asking for disconnection. How much would
they charge for this, and for later reconnection? It probably involves
only pulling a fuse in their supply box.
In this case I don't think I seriously mean it (but in future who
knows?).
Presumably they can't charge for a supply you've asked to be
disconnected.

They have been known to refuse to reconnect without a recent inspection
certificate, and they might well insist it's to current regs when
connecting a new supply, which the existing installation probably won't
be.

It might go swimingly well, but just beware of the potential problem.


EDF asked for my NICEIC number when pulling the cutout fuse at my
request so I could add a new consumer unit (all old wiring ripped out at
this point).

When I told the bloke I didn't have one and was doing the work under
building control he looked surprised. However, when he looked at my
super neat tails presented and check the CU for polarity, he was happy
enough - and even upgraded my meter connection to 25mm2 from 16mm2. And
didn't moan too much about the 100A isolator I had installed in the
meter box.

Still, it was probably the first box he'd seen with heavy duty 32mm
Kopex plastic conduit taking the tails and earths (MET in meter box)
through the bungalow soffit rather than just ramming the tails between a
couple of bricks with the mortar joint raked out!

I've never been asked either - if the installation looks neat and
professional, you might get away with it.

It's not a requirement that an installation conforms to wiring regs
to be connected, just that it has to be safe. The easiest way for
them to check that is to ask for a certificate, and that way they
are not taking responsibility for checking the safety. An installation
conforming to anything from 14th Ed regs onwards should have no

||| arguments in theory, although they probably do expect at least the
||| earthing and service bonding to be nearer to current regs.

I know of a very rushed cable replacement by the electricity company's
contractor which resulted in the earth wire to the CU etc. being left
just hanging loose (stripped, but just hanging) in the company's earth
block.
Maybe it was just touching the terminal, maybe not, but very slight
finger pressure popped it out.
Probably lots of copper water pipe bonding in adjacent flats, and
certainly plenty in this (though some of it out of sight), so there
would likely be a roundabout earth path.
That bonding isn't something to count on though; all it would take is
for someone else to switch to plastic pipe, and any roundabout earth
path might disappear.

Nobody harmed, luckily.

Motto: Don't trust the supplier: get out the earth impedance tester
every time they change anything; nowadays everyone is excessively
rushed.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:06:59 GMT, lid
(Windmill) wrote:

A few years ago, tenants who left seemed to have had a 'no standing
charge' tariff, which was in turn helpful for me, but when I've tried
to arrange that myself I've had a lot of resistance from the supplier
(surprise!).

AIUI the energy regulator has demanded that all companies now use a
standing charge in order, they say, to simplify tariff comparisons.
Some energy companies - a very few - will offer a standing charge of
zero but the majority won't. There's been a lot of discussion about
this on radio programmes like the BBC's Moneybox on R4 and in the
money pages of the newspapers. If you are thinking of switching to a
zero-standing-charge supplier, check the T's and C's carefully because
they may well be out to get you in some other way.

Nick

Nick Odell writes:

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:06:59 GMT, lid
(Windmill) wrote:

A few years ago, tenants who left seemed to have had a 'no standing
charge' tariff, which was in turn helpful for me, but when I've tried
to arrange that myself I've had a lot of resistance from the supplier
(surprise!).

AIUI the energy regulator has demanded that all companies now use a
standing charge in order, they say, to simplify tariff comparisons.
Some energy companies - a very few - will offer a standing charge of
zero but the majority won't. There's been a lot of discussion about
this on radio programmes like the BBC's Moneybox on R4 and in the
money pages of the newspapers. If you are thinking of switching to a
zero-standing-charge supplier, check the T's and C's carefully because
they may well be out to get you in some other way.

Hmmm... the energy companies told the regulator what they'd asked their
pals in government to arrange, and the regulator made sure they'd get
some income no matter what.

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 17:49:32 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:

AIUI the energy regulator has demanded that all companies now use a
standing charge in order, they say, to simplify tariff comparisons.

Presumably to get rid of that mess of "no standing charge" and Tier 1
and Tier 2 rates where the first x units (Tier 1) in a billing period
cost more than the rest (Tier 2). Curiously the extra money equalled
that suppliers standard tariff standing charge...

Some energy companies - a very few - will offer a standing charge of
zero but the majority won't.

There seems to be more true no standing charge tariffs about now than
there was. At one time only Ebico offered it.

If you are thinking of switching to a zero-standing-charge supplier,
check the T's and C's carefully because they may well be out to get you
in some other way.

That is always worth while.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 14/03/2014 20:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2014 17:49:32 +0000, Nick Odell wrote:

AIUI the energy regulator has demanded that all companies now use a
standing charge in order, they say, to simplify tariff comparisons.

Presumably to get rid of that mess of "no standing charge" and Tier 1
and Tier 2 rates where the first x units (Tier 1) in a billing period
cost more than the rest (Tier 2). Curiously the extra money equalled
that suppliers standard tariff standing charge...


Yes, indeed. Provided you used all the Tier 1 units each billing period,
it worked out exactly the same.

At one time, I had no-standing-charge tariffs at my holiday flat - where
the usage is relatively low because I'm only there for about 25% of the
time. Nevertheless, I rarely ever failed to use all the Tier 1 units.
Then the supplier moved the goalposts to make damn sure that I used all
the Tier 1 units - they moved to 6 month billing periods rather than 3
months - making sure there was some winter usage in each period!
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 13/03/2014 14:02, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

It's not a requirement that an installation conforms to wiring regs
to be connected,

Hmm, that might be the case, but the 2002 ESQC regs say:

25(2) A distributor shall not give his consent to the making or altering
of the connection referred to in paragraph (1) [i.e. a supply
connection], where he has reasonable grounds for believing that€”

(a) the consumers installation, street electrical fixture or other
distributors network fails to comply with British Standard Requirements
[i.e. BS 7671] or these Regulations; or

(b) the connection itself will not be so constructed, installed,
protected and used or arranged for use, so as to prevent as far as is
reasonably practicable, danger or interruption of supply.


--
Andy