Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

Did a load test on the battery in case of something obvious, but
at 100mA for a second or so, the battery stayed up.

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

Well, checked its output at 433.93MHz on the speccy before
doing a field test before knocking on his door to return it.

Now ... here's the rub ... the LED was in series with the rest of the
gubbins, so that means that the failure of an unnecessary tuppenny
component rendered the whole thing U/S.

I wonder how much Bosch would have tried to charge, even assuming that
they would have been able to fix it?

***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****


snip


***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

Get this from CPC.

TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...k/dp/SD0173805

I've given my Weller TCP iron the sack...

--
Adrian C

In article ,
gareth wrote:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

Did a load test on the battery in case of something obvious, but
at 100mA for a second or so, the battery stayed up.

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

Well, checked its output at 433.93MHz on the speccy before
doing a field test before knocking on his door to return it.

Now ... here's the rub ... the LED was in series with the rest of the
gubbins, so that means that the failure of an unnecessary tuppenny
component rendered the whole thing U/S.

Mine, not Bosch, also has an indicator. It can be operateed out of sight
of the door, so the indicator is useful. You want to make sure it's open
before dashing through the rain and finding the door still shut..

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

In article ,
Adrian C wrote:
On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****


snip


***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

Get this from CPC.

TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...k/dp/SD0173805

I've given my Weller TCP iron the sack...

i'e had to since the bit seems to have "welded" itself in place.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Adrian C wrote:

Get this from CPC.
TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94
http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...k/dp/SD0173805

Seems a good price, is Tenma a "heard of" manufacturer? Or would it be
wise to stock up on spare bits and elements when buying one, rather than
risk disappointment later on?

They probably bought it off the shelf in any case and the chip it talks to.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"gareth" wrote in message
...
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

Did a load test on the battery in case of something obvious, but
at 100mA for a second or so, the battery stayed up.

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

Well, checked its output at 433.93MHz on the speccy before
doing a field test before knocking on his door to return it.

Now ... here's the rub ... the LED was in series with the rest of the
gubbins, so that means that the failure of an unnecessary tuppenny
component rendered the whole thing U/S.

I wonder how much Bosch would have tried to charge, even assuming that
they would have been able to fix it?

***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

On 11/03/2014 17:53, Andy Burns wrote:
Adrian C wrote:

Get this from CPC.
TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94
http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...k/dp/SD0173805


Seems a good price, is Tenma a "heard of" manufacturer? Or would it be
wise to stock up on spare bits and elements when buying one, rather than
risk disappointment later on?


I got mine at a similar discount from Maplin as I needed something hot
enough to do Lead Free (+ was emergency, so Maplin distress purchase....).

Does have some issues if you read reviews on Amazon, but I'm not fussed
as some. Yeah lead could have been a bit longer, could have had rubber
feet, etc...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B004X25LW8

Overall it does the job, for a tenth of the original price of my Weller
station. In one of the reviews above, it gives the link to an excelent
value set of bits.

10 Solder Soldering Iron Tip for Hakko Station 900M 933 - £3.33
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Solder-Solde.../dp/B009LEDSPK

--
Adrian C

In article ,
Adrian C wrote:
Get this from CPC.

TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...k/dp/SD0173805

Notice they sell a variety of spare bits - but not a replacement element?

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

I've seen designs where an LED has been used a voltage reference/current
limiter, it may be doing more than just showing a button press...

The Hakko clones off Ebay are usually ok and at least parts and tips are
available.

"Lee" wrote in message
...
On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

I've seen designs where an LED has been used a voltage reference/current
limiter, it may be doing more than just showing a button press...

To be a voltage reference, it has to be someways in paralllel and not in
series.

Current limiting? Not like an incandescent bulb, an LED will keep drawing
current until it melts!

On 12/03/2014 12:50, gareth wrote:
"Lee" wrote in message
...
On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

I've seen designs where an LED has been used a voltage reference/current
limiter, it may be doing more than just showing a button press...

To be a voltage reference, it has to be someways in paralllel and not in
series.

Current limiting? Not like an incandescent bulb, an LED will keep drawing
current until it melts!



Current limit in the sense that it was used as a voltage reference for a
current limit circuit - guess it was cheaper than a Zener and it
performed two functions

Adrian C put finger to keyboard:

On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was full of
SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob of solder I can
produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****


snip


***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of other
Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

Get this from CPC.

TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...n-digital-esd-
uk/dp/SD0173805


"Imported temperature-beard materials with long life" ???

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:09:23 +0000, Scion wrote:

Adrian C put finger to keyboard:

On 11/03/2014 17:28, gareth wrote:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was full of
SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob of solder I can
produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****


snip


***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of other
Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

Get this from CPC.

TENMA - 21-10115 UK - SOLDERING STATION, DIGITAL, ESD, UK - £35.94

http://cpc.farnell.com/tenma/21-1011...n-digital-esd-
uk/dp/SD0173805


"Imported temperature-beard materials with long life" ???


Produces lots of whiskered joints then.


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
My posts (including this one) are my copyright and if @diy_forums on
Twitter wish to tweet them they can pay me £30 a post
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

(snip)
In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

Well, checked its output at 433.93MHz on the speccy before
doing a field test before knocking on his door to return it.

Now ... here's the rub ... the LED was in series with the rest of the
gubbins, so that means that the failure of an unnecessary tuppenny
component rendered the whole thing U/S.

(snip)

I had that happen on a door chime remote.

David

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 12/03/2014 15:18, David wrote:
(snip)
In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

Well, checked its output at 433.93MHz on the speccy before
doing a field test before knocking on his door to return it.

Now ... here's the rub ... the LED was in series with the rest of the
gubbins, so that means that the failure of an unnecessary tuppenny
component rendered the whole thing U/S.

(snip)

I had that happen on a door chime remote.

David

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


Sorry, Avast crap fixed (hopefully)

David

In article ,
"gareth" writes:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

I learned to solder with one of those, with a bit that was
probably 2 decades past being worn out. It does mean I can
solder with just about anything now, including a screwdriver
held in a gas flame, although I do prefer my nice temperature
controlled iron.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

I learned to solder with one of those, with a bit that was
probably 2 decades past being worn out. It does mean I can
solder with just about anything now, including a screwdriver
held in a gas flame, although I do prefer my nice temperature
controlled iron.

I've still got a 25 watt Solon. In the bottom of the 'seldom used' drawer.
;-)

Strangely, the iron I bought just after it in the early '60s - Antex - is
still the make I prefer to this day, being so small and well balanced. But
I'd guess this is a personal thing.

--
*I used up all my sick days so I called in dead

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"gareth" writes:
Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

I learned to solder with one of those, with a bit that was
probably 2 decades past being worn out.

I had to buy a 200v element for mine when I went to university - the town
having 200v mains. It lasted quite a few years on 240v and was somewhat
hotter than normal.

It does mean I can
solder with just about anything now, including a screwdriver
held in a gas flame, although I do prefer my nice temperature
controlled iron.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****
I learned to solder with one of those, with a bit that was
probably 2 decades past being worn out. It does mean I can
solder with just about anything now, including a screwdriver
held in a gas flame, although I do prefer my nice temperature
controlled iron.
I've still got a 25 watt Solon. In the bottom of the 'seldom used' drawer.
Strangely, the iron I bought just after it in the early '60s - Antex - is
still the make I prefer to this day, being so small and well balanced. But
I'd guess this is a personal thing.


Clearly, as far as this group goes, the Internet is NOT an
indication of a young person :-)

63 years old a couple of weeks ago :-(

(The body of an old man; the mind of a youngster)

In article , gareth
wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article , Andrew Gabriel
wrote:
Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was full
of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob of solder I
can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****
I learned to solder with one of those, with a bit that was probably 2
decades past being worn out. It does mean I can solder with just about
anything now, including a screwdriver held in a gas flame, although I
do prefer my nice temperature controlled iron.
I've still got a 25 watt Solon. In the bottom of the 'seldom used'
drawer. Strangely, the iron I bought just after it in the early '60s -
Antex - is still the make I prefer to this day, being so small and well
balanced. But I'd guess this is a personal thing.


Clearly, as far as this group goes, the Internet is NOT an indication of
a young person :-)

63 years old a couple of weeks ago :-(

(The body of an old man; the mind of a youngster)

your body is 10 years younger than mine!

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I've still got a 25 watt Solon. In the bottom of the 'seldom used' drawer.

Yeah well, you need to keep it for whenever you need to replace the
element on your Antex, eh?

Strangely, the iron I bought just after it in the early '60s - Antex - is
still the make I prefer to this day

On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:28:02 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

Neighbour asked me to fix his Bosch garage door remote.

Took it apart, felt sure I'd not be able to sort it as it was
full of SMD components each smaller than the smallest blob
of solder I can produce with my Henley "Solon" iron.*****

Did a load test on the battery in case of something obvious, but
at 100mA for a second or so, the battery stayed up.

In the end, it was the indicating LED that had blown. Now, why
necessary to put an indication that you've pressed the button, when
tactile feedback should tell you all that you need to know?

Tactile feedback can't inform you of a dead battery.

Well, checked its output at 433.93MHz on the speccy before
doing a field test before knocking on his door to return it.

Now ... here's the rub ... the LED was in series with the rest of the
gubbins, so that means that the failure of an unnecessary tuppenny
component rendered the whole thing U/S.

That suggests a 12v battery rather than a lithium coin cell or two.
Putting the led in series is a rather neat way of maximising battery
life when you've got 12 volts worth to play with.

It's neat in the sense that it not only indicates a good battery but
can also can indicate a circuit fault elsewhere as well as avoiding
the need for a seperate dropper resistor to limit the LED current to
something similar to what the whole TX circuit takes. In effect, the
TX cct substitutes for the current limiting resistor, reducing the
component count which contributes to an improved reliability.

I can't see the TX cct needing any more than 10mA which is well
within the rating of even the smallest of smd chip LEDs. It was just
'bad luck' that the LED failed in this instance. I don't think that
would be a very common failure, they're usually good for in excess of
100KH at 'indicator' current draw levels.


I wonder how much Bosch would have tried to charge, even assuming that
they would have been able to fix it?

A rhetorical question I think (we're all too familiar with the auto
industry's practice of applying "Russ Andrews Pricing" on items like
this).


***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

And, a jeweler's loupe to go with those needle tips? :-)
--
Regards, J B Good

"Johny B Good" wrote in message
...

Tactile feedback can't inform you of a dead battery.


The failure of movement of the garage door will tell you that.


That suggests a 12v battery rather than a lithium coin cell or two.
Putting the led in series is a rather neat way of maximising battery
life when you've got 12 volts worth to play with.


9v PP3. The LED will not current limit to save battery life.

In effect, the
TX cct substitutes for the current limiting resistor, reducing the
component count which contributes to an improved reliability.

Except in this case, the redundant LED contributed to reduced reliability.

I can't see the TX cct needing any more than 10mA which is well
within the rating of even the smallest of smd chip LEDs. It was just
'bad luck' that the LED failed in this instance. I don't think that
would be a very common failure, they're usually good for in excess of
100KH at 'indicator' current draw levels.

A rhetorical question I think (we're all too familiar with the auto
industry's practice of applying "Russ Andrews Pricing" on items like
this).

What happens when you combine a joke with a rhetorical question?
***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

And, a jeweler's loupe to go with those needle tips? :-)

I've 3 loupes of varying dioptres.

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:58:12 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

"Johny B Good" wrote in message
.. .

Tactile feedback can't inform you of a dead battery.


The failure of movement of the garage door will tell you that.

That only tells you that something in the overall system failed. A
flat GDO battery is merely one possible cause. If the GDO kit had
included a spare GDO fob, you could have determined whether it was a
keyfob fault or in the RX controller of the GDO mechanism attached to
the door. The GDO fob is not the only point of failure.



That suggests a 12v battery rather than a lithium coin cell or two.
Putting the led in series is a rather neat way of maximising battery
life when you've got 12 volts worth to play with.


9v PP3. The LED will not current limit to save battery life.

I didn't say it would (it's in series). The diode provides a pretty
stable volt drop, circa 1.7v iirc, over a wide range of current
levels. Since the TX cct can work reliably with a voltage range of 5
to 7v (as it must in this cct arrangement), substuting the TX cct for
a seperate 470 to 680 ohm dropper resistor that would be required to
give the LED sufficient brightness more or less halves the total
current consumption of the GDO.

Considering the very tiny risk of the LED going open cct, I'd say it
was a wise choice on the part of the designer.


In effect, the
TX cct substitutes for the current limiting resistor, reducing the
component count which contributes to an improved reliability.

Except in this case, the redundant LED contributed to reduced reliability.

No arguing with that statement but statistically, no worse than a
component failure elsewhere in the TX cct. It's true that
incorporating 3 slicon diodes across the LED could have guarded
against this particular failure but the ROI value of the extra
components wouldn't be sufficient to justify the extra production
cost.

Such are the conflicting design requirements of mass produced
electronics in the real world. Welcome to the real world. I'm afraid
to say, this is a mild example of 'penny pinching', there are far
worse examples you can rant about with plenty of other similar gadgets
(and much more sophisticated electronic gear as well).


I can't see the TX cct needing any more than 10mA which is well
within the rating of even the smallest of smd chip LEDs. It was just
'bad luck' that the LED failed in this instance. I don't think that
would be a very common failure, they're usually good for in excess of
100KH at 'indicator' current draw levels.

A rhetorical question I think (we're all too familiar with the auto
industry's practice of applying "Russ Andrews Pricing" on items like
this).

What happens when you combine a joke with a rhetorical question?

I don't know! (this had better be good). "What does happen when you
combine a joke with a rhetorical question?"

***** Yeah, OK, I've two Solons from 45 years ago and a host of
other Antex et al irons with needle tips :-)

And, a jeweler's loupe to go with those needle tips? :-)

I've 3 loupes of varying dioptres.

Right answer! :-)
--
Regards, J B Good

"Johny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:58:12 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:
What happens when you combine a joke with a rhetorical question?

I don't know! (this had better be good). "What does happen when you
combine a joke with a rhetorical question?"


Sorry, it was a rhetorical question.