I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on epoxy and £5 on screws.


NT

wrote in message
...
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it
might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him
going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a
whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30
years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on
epoxy and £5 on screws.


How old is he and are you in his will?

In message ,
writes
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its
well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought
it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and
keep him going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly
a whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another
20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend
£15 on epoxy and £5 on screws.

I too have an unfelted Victorian slated (barn) roof. Actually close
boarded in the Scottish style and secured with copper nails. The recent
storms have loosened more slates which I will eventually fix with the
traditional lead strip.

I have also used stiff copper wire, doubled over the fixing and bent up
over the slate bottom edge. Works OK.

Slates of this age may not take adhesive well as the surface may be
delaminating. I'm uncertain how you would do a row without removing them
first?


NT

--
Tim Lamb

wrote in message
...
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it
might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him
going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a
whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30
years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on
epoxy and £5 on screws.

The conventional bodge is to spray the underide of the slates with two part
foam.
This insulates and prevents slate from moving.

Also makes any proper repaui very difficult.

Unattended roof leaks are the quickest way to destroy a building.

"Tim Lamb" wrote in message
...
In message ,
writes
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it
might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him
going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a
whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another
20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15
on epoxy and £5 on screws.

I too have an unfelted Victorian slated (barn) roof. Actually close
boarded in the Scottish style and secured with copper nails. The recent
storms have loosened more slates which I will eventually fix with the
traditional lead strip.

I have also used stiff copper wire, doubled over the fixing and bent up
over the slate bottom edge. Works OK.

Slates of this age may not take adhesive well as the surface may be
delaminating. I'm uncertain how you would do a row without removing them
first?


You can buy wire spring clips for centre nailed slates instead of the bit of
bent lead/copper.
Goes in the original nail holes, two needed for each slate.

You put them on the loose slate and push up into position and they hook onto
the neighburing slates.
You can't get them out afterwards.

Well I have no felt either, and the stringers are probably near end of life,
but I don't seem to get tiles falling off.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
wrote in message
...
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it
might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him
going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a
whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30
years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on
epoxy and £5 on screws.


NT

On 08/03/2014 23:37, wrote:
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on epoxy and £5 on screws.

I would be dubious about anything sticking successfully to the slates on
a nail sick roof, as they are probably friable.

The usual fix is to remove the loose slate, nail or screw a length of
copper strip to the lath you can see between the two slates under it,
slide the slate back into position (a long strip of thin steel is a
useful tool for getting it over the lath it was nailed to) then turn the
copper strip up over the bottom of the slate.

A cheap and quick alternative, although it ruins the slates and prevents
you from reusing them if you do reslate, is to paint the whole roof with
bitumen or butyl runner based roofing paint, as usually used for
renovating flat roofs.

Colin Bignell

On 08/03/2014 23:37, wrote:
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on epoxy and £5 on screws.


NT


I doubt if you would be able to glue anything to old slates. The first
0.25mm layer in the slate will just split at the slightest excuse,
assuming that the surface has not already become dusty.

--
mailto:news{at}admac(dot}myzen{dot}co{dot}uk

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:36:42 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

The usual fix is to remove the loose slate, nail or screw a length of
copper strip to the lath you can see between the two slates under it,
slide the slate back into position

Yep, though when I have tried that method with lead it doesn't really
stop the bottom edge of the replaced slate flapping about. You can
get plastic things that do a similar job, but also have a part that
slides up under between the lower two slates to hold the bottom of
the loose slate
down.

http://www.roofinglines.co.uk/_sysFi...y/products/zoo
m/UBBINK-SIM-FIX-Slate-Strap-Pack-of-50-2.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/nov2p34

I might be a bit more worried about that than most due to the rather
exposed position. 50 mph sustained winds at ground level are not
unknown, I dread to think what it is over the roof...

(a long strip of thin steel is a useful tool for getting it over the
lath it was nailed to)

Slaters ripper, has a couple of sharpened slots in the top end to rip
the old nails out from the loose slate. Getting the top of the slate
back over the top of the upper lath can be the hard part of the
process.

A cheap and quick alternative, although it ruins the slates and prevents
you from reusing them if you do reslate, is to paint the whole roof with
bitumen or butyl runner based roofing paint, as usually used for
renovating flat roofs.

Oh yuck, that's as bad spray foam inside IMHO.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 09/03/2014 19:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:36:42 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

The usual fix is to remove the loose slate, nail or screw a length of
copper strip to the lath you can see between the two slates under it,
slide the slate back into position

Yep, though when I have tried that method with lead it doesn't really
stop the bottom edge of the replaced slate flapping about.

IME lead is less effective than copper. Partly, I suspect, because a
lead strip needs to be thicker than a copper one.

You can
get plastic things that do a similar job, but also have a part that
slides up under between the lower two slates to hold the bottom of
the loose slate
down.

http://www.roofinglines.co.uk/_sysFi...y/products/zoo
m/UBBINK-SIM-FIX-Slate-Strap-Pack-of-50-2.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/nov2p34

The wonders of modern technology! However, I always had copper strip
readily available.

I might be a bit more worried about that than most due to the rather
exposed position. 50 mph sustained winds at ground level are not
unknown, I dread to think what it is over the roof...

My repairs survived the Great Storm. The only slates we lost were a
handful broken by a flying sheet of corrugated iron. Fortunately, we had
plenty of spares.

(a long strip of thin steel is a useful tool for getting it over the
lath it was nailed to)

Slaters ripper, has a couple of sharpened slots in the top end to rip
the old nails out from the loose slate. Getting the top of the slate
back over the top of the upper lath can be the hard part of the
process.

A ripper is too thick at the top, which it needs to be to have the
strength to cut through the nails. I used to have a length of 22g steel
strip, about 2" wide, which worked much better.

A cheap and quick alternative, although it ruins the slates and prevents
you from reusing them if you do reslate, is to paint the whole roof with
bitumen or butyl runner based roofing paint, as usually used for
renovating flat roofs.

Oh yuck, that's as bad spray foam inside IMHO.

It is not good, but might appeal to a cheapskate.

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 21:06:54 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

IME lead is less effective than copper. Partly, I suspect, because a
lead strip needs to be thicker than a copper one.

May also be related to lead being soft and ductile, where as copper
has a certain amount of springyness.
The wonders of modern technology! However, I always had copper strip
readily available.

I haven't, lead yes... B-)

Slaters ripper, has a couple of sharpened slots in the top end to
rip
the old nails out from the loose slate. Getting the top of the
slate
back over the top of the upper lath can be the hard part of the
process.

A ripper is too thick at the top, which it needs to be to have the
strength to cut through the nails. I used to have a length of 22g steel
strip, about 2" wide, which worked much better.

22g = 0.7 mm 2.5 times (ish) the thickness of my ripper. Sort of
surprised that 22g has enough stiffness not to droop under it's own
weight. The end of my ripper rounded and champered not square and
blunt. It could do with being a couple of inches longer for or slates
though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 9:06:54 PM UTC, Nightjar wrote:
On 09/03/2014 19:04, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 11:36:42 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

A cheap and quick alternative, although it ruins the slates and prevents
you from reusing them if you do reslate, is to paint the whole roof with
bitumen or butyl runner based roofing paint, as usually used for
renovating flat roofs.

Oh yuck, that's as bad spray foam inside IMHO.

It is not good, but might appeal to a cheapskate.

He's far too cheap to spring for such a thing. I dont think he would anyway for other reasons.


NT

On 09/03/2014 21:49, Dave Liquorice wrote:

... Sort of
surprised that 22g has enough stiffness not to droop under it's own
weight. ...

It only has to support itself between the top of one slate and the edge
of the next lath. For the rest of its length it is resting on the slate
below.

Colin Bignell

"harryagain" wrote in message ...


wrote in message
...
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it
might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him
going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a
whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30
years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on
epoxy and £5 on screws.

The conventional bodge is to spray the underide of the slates with two part
foam.
This insulates and prevents slate from moving.

Also makes any proper repaui very difficult.

Unattended roof leaks are the quickest way to destroy a building.

No. Unattended gas leaks trump that.

On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 04:30:54 -0000, Richard wrote:

Unattended roof leaks are the quickest way to destroy a building.

No. Unattended gas leaks trump that.

Unattended probably not as the gas concentration gets too high for an
explosion. The ones reported in the news nearly always have someone
present, switching on a light or kettle to provide the spark to
ignite the gas that has ony had time to build up into the explosive
conentration range.

But yes for the rapaid deconstruction of a house you can't beat a gas
explosion.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Saturday, March 8, 2014 11:37:39 PM UTC, wrote:
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.



So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

Is part of the problem that if you walk on the roof to do repairs you loosen every slates you stand on? If so, given that there is no felt, can you access the slates from inside the roof void? For example, make a metal wire hook, poke it down between slates from inside and then pull it up tight and nail it inside the roof?

Robert

RobertL wrote:
On Saturday, March 8, 2014 11:37:39 PM UTC, wrote:
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.



So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought
it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and
keep him going for a fair bit longer.

Is part of the problem that if you walk on the roof to do repairs you
loosen every slates you stand on? If so, given that there is no felt,
can you access the slates from inside the roof void? For example, make a
metal wire hook, poke it down between slates from inside and then pull it
up tight and nail it inside the roof?

Robert

Well given that he planned to attach copper wires to the "underside" of
each slate and then screw to the woodwork (which is under the slates) I
think he's way ahead of you. ;-)

Tim

On Monday, March 10, 2014 9:12:02 AM UTC, RobertL wrote:
On Saturday, March 8, 2014 11:37:39 PM UTC, wrote:

I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.
So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

Is part of the problem that if you walk on the roof to do repairs you loosen every slates you stand on?

Its not really an option to stand on the slates, they're too thin and far too steep.

If so, given that there is no felt, can you access the slates from inside the roof void?

yes

For example, make a metal wire hook, poke it down between slates from inside and then pull it up tight and nail it inside the roof?

Yes that's an alternative to glueing I wondered about. What I dont know is how many slates that might cause to fall immediately. If the number isnt close to zero, any such effort would be abandoned very quickly, with his choice of curses.


NT

wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 9:12:02 AM UTC, RobertL wrote:
On Saturday, March 8, 2014 11:37:39 PM UTC, wrote:

I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its
well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.
So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto
the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I
thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair
bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

Is part of the problem that if you walk on the roof to do repairs you
loosen every slates you stand on?

Its not really an option to stand on the slates, they're too thin and far too steep.

If so, given that there is no felt, can you access the slates from inside the roof void?

yes

For example, make a metal wire hook, poke it down between slates from
inside and then pull it up tight and nail it inside the roof?

Yes that's an alternative to glueing I wondered about. What I dont know
is how many slates that might cause to fall immediately. If the number
isnt close to zero, any such effort would be abandoned very quickly, with
his choice of curses.


NT

Why is this your problem? A relative? Maybe the best bet is to get some
sort of building inspector to declare the roof dangerous to third parties
and force his wallet open.

Tim

In article ,
Nightjar writes:
A cheap and quick alternative, although it ruins the slates and prevents
you from reusing them if you do reslate, is to paint the whole roof with
bitumen or butyl runner based roofing paint, as usually used for
renovating flat roofs.

A roof I can see from my house looks like it's been tar felted over
the slates. It was like that when I first saw it, and I've never
seen anyone needing to do any further maintainance in the 25+ years
since. Doesn't look very nice though.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Monday, March 10, 2014 9:02:46 PM UTC, Tim+ wrote:
wrote:

I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its
well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.
So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto
the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I
thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair
bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

Why is this your problem? A relative? Maybe the best bet is to get some
sort of building inspector to declare the roof dangerous to third parties
and force his wallet open.
Tim

Its not my problem. It would be good to help, but I dont see any easy way forward.

Its not dangerous.


NT

On Monday, March 10, 2014 8:22:36 AM UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
snip
But yes for the rapaid deconstruction of a house you can't beat a gas
explosion.

Seems to have been a major one in New York city:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26549431
Why when this sort of thing happens is there usually someone after the fact who has been 'smelling gas for weeks' but not reporting it ...

On 12/03/2014 19:01, wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 8:22:36 AM UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
snip
But yes for the rapaid deconstruction of a house you can't beat a gas
explosion.

Seems to have been a major one in New York city:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26549431
Why when this sort of thing happens is there usually someone after the fact who has been 'smelling gas for weeks' but not reporting it ...

Why is it that there are so many gas leaks I get sick of reporting them?
It ends up feeling as if no-one else bothers.

A few weeks ago as I left a car park in the middle of a busy town, I
noticed a very strong smell of gas and reported it. About four weeks
earlier at the same place there had been a slight "is that gas or a
funny smelling exhaust" smell. The gas people came and sorted it
straightaway - which confirmed my report. Had anyone else reported it
I'd have expected it to be have been already investigated and fixed.

--
Rod

wrote:
On Monday, March 10, 2014 9:02:46 PM UTC, Tim+ wrote:
wrote:

I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its
well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.
So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto
the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I
thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair
bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

Why is this your problem? A relative? Maybe the best bet is to get some
sort of building inspector to declare the roof dangerous to third parties
and force his wallet open.
Tim

Its not my problem. It would be good to help, but I dont see any easy way forward.

Its not dangerous.


Has he got the money? My wife's aunt went to her grave with over three
quarters of a million in savings and lived in a hovel. She could have
lived a much more comfort life if she had been encouraged to spend more and
save less.

Tim

On 08/03/14 23:37, wrote:
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep him going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another 20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend £15 on epoxy and £5 on screws.


NT

I'm using these:
Ubbink Sim-Fix Refurbishment Slate Strap
http://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/p...te-strap-.html

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 23:04:23 +0000, george - dicegeorge wrote:

I'm using these:
Ubbink Sim-Fix Refurbishment Slate Strap

Keep up at the back I mentioned those days ago. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 08/03/14 23:37, wrote:
I have a friend who wouldnt spend £1 if his life depended on it. His
unfelted Victorian slate roof has had a lot of slates replaced, its well
overdue for reslating, but he wont remotely contemplate it.

So, what do you reckon to this idea... epoxy copper wire tails onto the
underside of each slate, and screw the wires to the woodwork. I thought
it might at least reduce the number of fallen slates a fair bit, and keep
him going for a fair bit longer.

I have visions though of the day the last nail gives way, and suddenly a
whole row of slates slides sideways. Still, if it gets him another
20-30 years I might have a 1 in 1000 chance of persuading him to spend
£15 on epoxy and £5 on screws.


NT

I'm using these:
Ubbink Sim-Fix Refurbishment Slate Strap
http://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/p...te-strap-.html


No need, just glue em in with squirty expanding foam.

Mike