I've just bought a reasonable-sized order with an apparently reputable
internet LED supplier for refitting parts of my home with LED lighting
(having replaced the kitchen downlighters about 6 months ago I've been
really pleased with the results and am now on a roll...!)

Anyway, I spotted one item and decided to have a punt... we have a
4-foot fluorescent tube in our utility room, which is switched
on for much of the day, and replacing that with an LED item seemed like
a good idea. I noticed and purchased this 'adaptor' which puports to
convert a standard fluorescent tube fitting: http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu

The thing duly arrived, and I was slightly surprised to receive it in
a carton about 3" cube rather than 4' long. Turns out that you also
need to buy another component as well; ie the 'tube' containing the LEDs
that emit the light. Only, nowhere in the description is this actually
mentioned; furthermore the picture includes this 'tube' itself, and the
site doesn't even stock them! Even after googling I'm not entirely sure
what's needed; but AFAICS it's about 30 quid's worth, which for me takes
the total cost well out of the value-for-money range.

So, I asked to return the item, adding that I was not expecting to pay
for return postage owing to the misleading description. No dice -
they'll have it back under the DSR regs, but I need to pay the (£4)
postage, something which I object to in principle!

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Of course, short of withdrawing my future business (big deal) there's
bugger all I can do about it anyway unless I'm willing to take this to
a small claim

--
David

On 06/01/2014 20:02, Lobster wrote:

Hmmm... that's strange. I've got the preview thing turned on for tinyurl
but the affiliate link you gave blew straight through it!

http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu

Unwrapped (and affiliate removed) it's ...


http://www.ledhut.co.uk/5ft-1500mm-t8-t5-energy-saving-fluorescent-lighting-tube-adaptor-up-to-58-energy-savings-plug-play.html


The thing duly arrived, and I was slightly surprised to receive it in
a carton about 3" cube rather than 4' long. Turns out that you also
need to buy another component as well; ie the 'tube' containing the LEDs
that emit the light. Only, nowhere in the description is this actually
mentioned; furthermore the picture includes this 'tube' itself, and the
site doesn't even stock them! Even after googling I'm not entirely sure
what's needed; but AFAICS it's about 30 quid's worth, which for me takes
the total cost well out of the value-for-money range.


Are you sure this is LED technology? I'm looking at this merely being an
adaptor to use T5 florescent tubes in a T8 fitting.

--
Adrian C

On 06 Jan 2014, Adrian C grunted:

On 06/01/2014 20:02, Lobster wrote:

Hmmm... that's strange. I've got the preview thing turned on for
tinyurl but the affiliate link you gave blew straight through it!

Sorry - unaware of that and certainly not intentional - I did use
TopCashback when I placed the order and I guess the affiliate link stayed
in my browswer cache or something? (I always post any links via tinyurl to
avoid the bad line breaks).

Are you sure this is LED technology? I'm looking at this merely being
an adaptor to use T5 florescent tubes in a T8 fitting.

Well that was the crux of it, as others have also pointed out. TBH I've
never heard of the terms "T5" or "T8" which is why I came a cropper; and as
the company AFAICS otherwise exclusively sells LED stuff (the clue being in
the name) it never occurred to me that this was anything other than an LED
product.

Still think they could make the description clearer under the circs (and
also considering that they are targeting domestic end-users rather than
trade)

The feedback was appreciated nonetheless. I'll hold back on my Small Claim



--
David

On 07/01/2014 08:32, Lobster wrote:
....
Well that was the crux of it, as others have also pointed out. TBH I've
never heard of the terms "T5" or "T8" which is why I came a cropper;...

Standard description for fluorescent tubes. The number is the diameter
in eights of an inch, hence T12 = 12/8 = 1.5" T8 = 8/8 = 1" T5 = 5/8"

Colin Bignell

In article , Adrian C
writes
On 06/01/2014 20:02, Lobster wrote:

Hmmm... that's strange. I've got the preview thing turned on for tinyurl
but the affiliate link you gave blew straight through it!

http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu

Unwrapped (and affiliate removed) it's ...


http://www.ledhut.co.uk/5ft-1500mm-t...lighting-tube-
adaptor-up-to-58-energy-savings-plug-play.html

For info, it looks like the affiliate details were added by tinyurl
themselves, it's how they make their money, adding their affiliate
details to user provided links. It's something I've seen and verified
before.

I wonder Dave if you would mind posting the full link too, for those of
a careful disposition it's nice to have some hint of whether I'm heading
towards screwfix or dirtyslutsgoape****.com

Or maybe using the preview tinyurl link they always provide as an
option.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

"Lobster" wrote in message
. 222...

I've just bought a reasonable-sized order with an apparently reputable
internet LED supplier for refitting parts of my home with LED lighting
(having replaced the kitchen downlighters about 6 months ago I've been
really pleased with the results and am now on a roll...!)

Anyway, I spotted one item and decided to have a punt... we have a
4-foot fluorescent tube in our utility room, which is switched
on for much of the day, and replacing that with an LED item seemed like
a good idea. I noticed and purchased this 'adaptor' which puports to
convert a standard fluorescent tube fitting: http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu

The thing duly arrived, and I was slightly surprised to receive it in
a carton about 3" cube rather than 4' long. Turns out that you also
need to buy another component as well; ie the 'tube' containing the LEDs
that emit the light. Only, nowhere in the description is this actually
mentioned; furthermore the picture includes this 'tube' itself, and the
site doesn't even stock them! Even after googling I'm not entirely sure
what's needed; but AFAICS it's about 30 quid's worth, which for me takes
the total cost well out of the value-for-money range.

So, I asked to return the item, adding that I was not expecting to pay
for return postage owing to the misleading description. No dice -
they'll have it back under the DSR regs, but I need to pay the (£4)
postage, something which I object to in principle!

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Of course, short of withdrawing my future business (big deal) there's
bugger all I can do about it anyway unless I'm willing to take this to
a small claim


Lodge a complaint with the Advertising Standards Agency. At least they'll
have to jump through a few hoops

Andrew

Andrew Mawson wrote:


Lodge a complaint with the Advertising Standards Agency. At least
they'll have to jump through a few hoops


Why?
It's advertised as an adaptor.
He got an adaptor.

Lobster wrote:
I've just bought a reasonable-sized order with an apparently reputable
internet LED supplier for refitting parts of my home with LED lighting
(having replaced the kitchen downlighters about 6 months ago I've been
really pleased with the results and am now on a roll...!)

Anyway, I spotted one item and decided to have a punt... we have a
4-foot fluorescent tube in our utility room, which is switched
on for much of the day, and replacing that with an LED item seemed
like a good idea. I noticed and purchased this 'adaptor' which
puports to convert a standard fluorescent tube fitting:
http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu

The thing duly arrived, and I was slightly surprised to receive it in
a carton about 3" cube rather than 4' long. Turns out that you also
need to buy another component as well; ie the 'tube' containing the
LEDs that emit the light. Only, nowhere in the description is this
actually mentioned; furthermore the picture includes this 'tube'
itself, and the site doesn't even stock them! Even after googling
I'm not entirely sure what's needed; but AFAICS it's about 30 quid's
worth, which for me takes the total cost well out of the
value-for-money range.

So, I asked to return the item, adding that I was not expecting to pay
for return postage owing to the misleading description. No dice -
they'll have it back under the DSR regs, but I need to pay the (£4)
postage, something which I object to in principle!

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Of course, short of withdrawing my future business (big deal) there's
bugger all I can do about it anyway unless I'm willing to take this to
a small claim

Pay your £4 and get your £20 back.
You've bought something that you thought existed, but doesn't.
Nowhere on that page does it mention LED, it says T8 to T5 adapter, so
googling for LED tubes to fit it is a waste of time, it simply allows you to
use a different sized flourescent tube without changing the whole fitting

I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

Colin Stamp wrote:
I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

The led tubes I got from aldi just go in place of the fluoro tube but
you replace the starter with the one supplied. (the two pins are shorted
out)

On 07/01/2014 05:53, F Murtz wrote:
Colin Stamp wrote:
I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

The led tubes I got from aldi just go in place of the fluoro tube but
you replace the starter with the one supplied. (the two pins are shorted
out)

That's a bit odd. It'd leave the ballast in circuit. It's worth checking
the instructions, but you can probably short out the ballast to get the
full efficiency benefit.

Cheers,

Colin.

In article ,
Colin Stamp writes:
On 07/01/2014 05:53, F Murtz wrote:
Colin Stamp wrote:
I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

The led tubes I got from aldi just go in place of the fluoro tube but
you replace the starter with the one supplied. (the two pins are shorted
out)

That's a bit odd. It'd leave the ballast in circuit. It's worth checking
the instructions, but you can probably short out the ballast to get the
full efficiency benefit.

There are a number of different schemes, and some can work with or
without the ballast being removed, whilst others require the fitting
to be completely rewired with the live and neutral both at one end.
You have to carefully check what any given replacement tube expects
(and it's the same with the T5 adapters).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 07/01/2014 21:56, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Colin Stamp writes:
On 07/01/2014 05:53, F Murtz wrote:
Colin Stamp wrote:
I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

The led tubes I got from aldi just go in place of the fluoro tube but
you replace the starter with the one supplied. (the two pins are shorted
out)

That's a bit odd. It'd leave the ballast in circuit. It's worth checking
the instructions, but you can probably short out the ballast to get the
full efficiency benefit.

There are a number of different schemes, and some can work with or
without the ballast being removed, whilst others require the fitting
to be completely rewired with the live and neutral both at one end.
You have to carefully check what any given replacement tube expects
(and it's the same with the T5 adapters).


Yuk! Leaving the ballast in can do nothing but degrade efficiency. Even
if not by much, it's still a bit of a compromise when the whole object
of the exercise is to improve efficiency.

Cheers,

Colin.

Colin Stamp wrote:
On 07/01/2014 05:53, F Murtz wrote:
Colin Stamp wrote:
I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

The led tubes I got from aldi just go in place of the fluoro tube but
you replace the starter with the one supplied. (the two pins are shorted
out)

That's a bit odd. It'd leave the ballast in circuit. It's worth checking
the instructions, but you can probably short out the ballast to get the
full efficiency benefit.

Cheers,

Colin.

Just stuck it in fitting and put fake starter in and it has been working
ever since

"F Murtz" wrote in message
eb.com...
Colin Stamp wrote:
On 07/01/2014 05:53, F Murtz wrote:
Colin Stamp wrote:
I'd say it is pretty misleading. It does make it look like you get
everything you need to start "saving energy".

As Adrian says, it's not for LED tubes at-all - it's a T8-T5 converter.
Their claim of "90%" energy reduction is presumably an attempt at a
joke.

In fact, you don't need any extra bits for LED tubes, just take all the
guts out of the old fitting. The LED tubes I've seen all run from 240V
directly.

Cheers,

Colin.

The led tubes I got from aldi just go in place of the fluoro tube but
you replace the starter with the one supplied. (the two pins are shorted
out)

That's a bit odd. It'd leave the ballast in circuit. It's worth checking
the instructions, but you can probably short out the ballast to get the
full efficiency benefit.

Cheers,

Colin.

Just stuck it in fitting and put fake starter in and it has been working
ever since

But not necessarily as EFFICIENTLY as if you didn't have the ballast in
circuit.

Maybe it wouldn't make that much of a difference tho given the
much lower current with the LED tubes.

On Monday, January 6, 2014 8:02:01 PM UTC, Lobster wrote:
I've just bought a reasonable-sized order with an apparently reputable

internet LED supplier for refitting parts of my home with LED lighting

(having replaced the kitchen downlighters about 6 months ago I've been

really pleased with the results and am now on a roll...!)



Anyway, I spotted one item and decided to have a punt... we have a

4-foot fluorescent tube in our utility room, which is switched

on for much of the day, and replacing that with an LED item seemed like

a good idea. I noticed and purchased this 'adaptor' which puports to

convert a standard fluorescent tube fitting: http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu



The thing duly arrived, and I was slightly surprised to receive it in

a carton about 3" cube rather than 4' long. Turns out that you also

need to buy another component as well; ie the 'tube' containing the LEDs

that emit the light. Only, nowhere in the description is this actually

mentioned; furthermore the picture includes this 'tube' itself, and the

site doesn't even stock them! Even after googling I'm not entirely sure

what's needed; but AFAICS it's about 30 quid's worth, which for me takes

the total cost well out of the value-for-money range.



So, I asked to return the item, adding that I was not expecting to pay

for return postage owing to the misleading description. No dice -

they'll have it back under the DSR regs, but I need to pay the (�4)

postage, something which I object to in principle!



Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?



Of course, short of withdrawing my future business (big deal) there's

bugger all I can do about it anyway unless I'm willing to take this to

a small claim



--

David

My reading of that advert is that the OP has got himself so stuck in the grooves of LED lighting that he is missing that this is an adaptor / convertor for gas fluorescent tubes, and not LED equivalents. "...fluorescent lighting energy..." is mentioned, not LED replacement of fluorescent.

Nowhere in the advert is LED technology mentioned so how can this be a convertor. I don't know how this device works to reduce running costs, but I suspect high frequency conversion comes in somewhere.

Unless I'm missing something, I reckon that the OP is lucky to even get a return number without any re-stocking charge!!

Rob

On 06/01/2014 21:04, robgraham wrote:
....
My reading of that advert is that the OP has got himself so stuck in the grooves of LED lighting that he is missing that this is an adaptor / convertor for gas fluorescent tubes, and not LED equivalents. "...fluorescent lighting energy..." is mentioned, not LED replacement of fluorescent.

Agreed.

Nowhere in the advert is LED technology mentioned so how can this be a convertor. I don't know how this device works to reduce running costs, but I suspect high frequency conversion comes in somewhere.

Unless I'm missing something, I reckon that the OP is lucky to even get a return number without any re-stocking charge!!

That would be illegal. The Distance Selling Regulations permit the
seller to require the purchaser to pay for the cost of returning the
goods, but they must give a full refund of the amount paid. The company
is being quite generous by allowing 30 days for returns, rather than the
seven working days permitted by the DSRs.

BTW the DSRs are being replaced by The Consumer Contracts (Information
Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 later this year.
Those are rather clearer, but introduce a number of changes, in
particular that the periods for rejecting the goods, return of the goods
and refunding payment will all become 14 days. There is also a provision
for the seller to reduce the amount of the refund if the value of the
goods has been reduced by the customer doing more than is necessary to
establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods. The
seller is also only required to refund the standard carriage price, even
if the customer chose a premium service at a higher cost.

Colin Bignell

Just wondering - is LED technology actually more efficient than decent
fluorescent? Truly like for like? Ie at the same colour temperature?

Other thing is decent florries have a very long life. LED seems very
variable. And of course a florry produces a very even light along the
length of the tube.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
:

Just wondering - is LED technology actually more efficient than decent
fluorescent? Truly like for like? Ie at the same colour temperature?

Other thing is decent florries have a very long life. LED seems very
variable. And of course a florry produces a very even light along the
length of the tube.


Our local Walmart has replaced all its fluorescents with LEDs. You have to
look carefully to tell. A huge store and a massive investment. It must have
been carefully thought out. The LEDs are in double rows and are in the
exiting fittings.

--

DerbyBorn

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
Just wondering - is LED technology actually more efficient than decent
fluorescent? Truly like for like? Ie at the same colour temperature?

No, not a raw fluorescent lamp yet.

However, there are circumstances which change this.

If you lose half the light from a tube because it gets lost in the
luminare, or it's covered in dust, then using an LED replacement
which emits all the light from one side only can give more efficient
lighting overall.

There are many circumstances where light is only wanted from one side
of a fluorescent tube, and that's where LEDs can win at the moment.

There used to be fluorescent reflector tubes and apature tubes which
directed light to one side, but these all seemed to vanish ~30 years
ago. Both would have the possibility of competing with LED, and I'm
not sure why no one produces them anymore.

Other thing is decent florries have a very long life. LED seems very
variable. And of course a florry produces a very even light along the
length of the tube.

LEDs can be made with longer life, but they aren't cheap. However, if
it costs you £5000 to change a tube (as it does with some of the
London Underground lights), then it almost doesn't matter what the
longer life lamp costs - it's still worth it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2014-01-07, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:

Other thing is decent florries have a very long life. LED seems very
variable. And of course a florry produces a very even light along the
length of the tube.

LEDs can be made with longer life, but they aren't cheap. However, if
it costs you £5000 to change a tube (as it does with some of the
London Underground lights), then it almost doesn't matter what the
longer life lamp costs - it's still worth it.

Is that £5000 figure based on having to suspend train service while
someone changes the lamp? (Just curious.)

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
Just wondering - is LED technology actually more efficient than decent
fluorescent? Truly like for like? Ie at the same colour temperature?

My understanding is that, at the moment, they are very close to each
other in terms of efficiency.

--
Chris Green
·

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:02:01 +0000, Lobster wrote:

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

The description's fairly clear to me that it's just the adapter, no tube.
Hell, the product title even refers to 4ft & 5ft, T5/T8 tubes, then the
description refers to 2/3/4/5ft tubes.

Unless you thought this was going to be something extendable...?

On Mon, 06 Jan 2014 20:02:01 GMT, Lobster
wrote:


Anyway, I spotted one item and decided to have a punt... we have a
4-foot fluorescent tube in our utility room, which is switched
on for much of the day, and replacing that with an LED item seemed like
a good idea.

The item linked is nothing to do with LED tubes, it is what it clearly
says it is which is a T8 - T5 Energy Saving Fluorescent Lighting Tube
Adaptor

I noticed and purchased this 'adaptor' which puports to
convert a standard fluorescent tube fitting: http://tinyurl.com/lqvwqeu

It does.

The thing duly arrived, and I was slightly surprised to receive it in
a carton about 3" cube rather than 4' long. Turns out that you also
need to buy another component as well; ie the 'tube' containing the LEDs
that emit the light.

No, you don't use it with LED "tubes".

Only, nowhere in the description is this actually
mentioned;

Probably because it has nothing to do with the adaptor advertised. Few
cars are advertised as being unsuitable for making breakfast.

furthermore the picture includes this 'tube' itself, and the
site doesn't even stock them! Even after googling I'm not entirely sure
what's needed; but AFAICS it's about 30 quid's worth, which for me takes
the total cost well out of the value-for-money range.

You just need a T5 tube from a local electrical supplier, it won't
cost you anything like £30.

So, I asked to return the item, adding that I was not expecting to pay
for return postage owing to the misleading description.

The description isn't at all misleading.

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

The former.

Just to add to the other comments - T8 and T5HE tubes are about
the same efficiency when both run on electronic ballasts, so if
you wanted to go this route and stick with fluorescent, just
replacing the ballast inside the fitting with an electronic one
would be a cheaper route.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in news:lafbcn$ddv$1
@dont-email.me:

Just to add to the other comments - T8 and T5HE tubes are about
the same efficiency when both run on electronic ballasts, so if
you wanted to go this route and stick with fluorescent, just
replacing the ballast inside the fitting with an electronic one
would be a cheaper route.


It is nothing to do with LED lights. It is like going into a pub and saying
the CocaCola didn't get you drunk.
It is a lampholder adaptor sold be a firm that happens to have LED as its
main product.

--

DerbyBorn

On 07/01/2014 00:17, DerbyBorn wrote:
It is like going into a pub and saying the CocaCola didn't get you drunk.

No. It's more like going into a pub, ordering something they describe as
a "Coke glass" and then complaining when you get an empty Coke glass.

The advert should be much clearer about the fact that the gadget isn't
the only thing you need to buy to start "saving energy". The casual
reader could easily think they're buying an adaptor to make the existing
tube more efficient. "T5" and "T8" aren't commonly known words. The fact
that someone has already been fooled by the advert goes some way to
proving that the advert isn't clear enough.

That's even before we get to the ridiculous and conflicting "90%",
"50%+", "20 times longer", "4X life" etc.

Cheers,

Colin.

Lobster wrote:

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Sorry, but I have to say I thought it quite clear it was an adapter (not
a lamp) from the description, the photos make it absolutely clear.

The one thing I would say is misleading is the phrase "Uses up to 90%
less energy than a standard bulb" that might apply to incandescents, but
surely not from a T8 fluorescent to a T5 fluorescent?

On 07/01/2014 01:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Sorry, but I have to say I thought it quite clear it was an adapter (not
a lamp) from the description, the photos make it absolutely clear.

The one thing I would say is misleading is the phrase "Uses up to 90%
less energy than a standard bulb" that might apply to incandescents, but
surely not from a T8 fluorescent to a T5 fluorescent?


If you went from an old T8 to a new high output T5 you might get twice
the light from it but the energy used would be similar.
Its twice as efficient but wont save you a significant amount of energy
unless you can reduce the number of lamps.

In article om,
"dennis@home" writes:
On 07/01/2014 01:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Sorry, but I have to say I thought it quite clear it was an adapter (not
a lamp) from the description, the photos make it absolutely clear.

The one thing I would say is misleading is the phrase "Uses up to 90%
less energy than a standard bulb" that might apply to incandescents, but
surely not from a T8 fluorescent to a T5 fluorescent?

If you went from an old T8 to a new high output T5 you might get twice
the light from it but the energy used would be similar.
Its twice as efficient but wont save you a significant amount of energy

No it's not. T8 and T5HE are same efficiency when both run on electronic
ballasts, as I already mentioned.

The reason you see a difference in datasheets is that T8 tubes are
run on magnetic ballasts for the purposes of measuring light output.

There's a lot of snake-oil surrounding the use of T8-T5 adapters.

(T12-T5 adapters make some sense however.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 07/01/2014 12:41, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article om,
"dennis@home" writes:
On 07/01/2014 01:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Sorry, but I have to say I thought it quite clear it was an adapter (not
a lamp) from the description, the photos make it absolutely clear.

The one thing I would say is misleading is the phrase "Uses up to 90%
less energy than a standard bulb" that might apply to incandescents, but
surely not from a T8 fluorescent to a T5 fluorescent?

If you went from an old T8 to a new high output T5 you might get twice
the light from it but the energy used would be similar.
Its twice as efficient but wont save you a significant amount of energy

No it's not. T8 and T5HE are same efficiency when both run on electronic
ballasts, as I already mentioned.

Sorry but are you saying you couldn't get twice the output from a new
high output T5 than an old T8 tube?

In article om,
"dennis@home" writes:
On 07/01/2014 12:41, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article om,
"dennis@home" writes:
On 07/01/2014 01:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Lobster wrote:

Am I being unreasonable/a **** or does the panel agree with me?

Sorry, but I have to say I thought it quite clear it was an adapter (not
a lamp) from the description, the photos make it absolutely clear.

The one thing I would say is misleading is the phrase "Uses up to 90%
less energy than a standard bulb" that might apply to incandescents, but
surely not from a T8 fluorescent to a T5 fluorescent?

If you went from an old T8 to a new high output T5 you might get twice
the light from it but the energy used would be similar.
Its twice as efficient but wont save you a significant amount of energy

No it's not. T8 and T5HE are same efficiency when both run on electronic
ballasts, as I already mentioned.

Sorry but are you saying you couldn't get twice the output from a new
high output T5 than an old T8 tube?

T8 and T5HE (HE = high effiency) are same efficiency.

T5HO (HO = high output) that you are asking about are less efficient
than both T8 and T5HE. They come in higher power ratings, but not double.
Therefore T5HO will be higher output than T8, but less than double the
light output of T8. The adapters in question don't run the T5HO tubes,
only T5HE. T5HO run much hotter and can't be used as retrofits as they
could well exceed the designed operating temperature of the fitting.
(A significant problem with the adapters in the US is they void the UL
approval of the original fittings, which often voids the fire insurance.)

If your question relates to comparing a new tube to an old tube, it is
possible to get a tube so old that its light output halves, but it's
technically considered dead long before this, and very few tubes will
still be able to function at all at this age (getting on for 100,000h -
I've only seem it with some 8' tubes which were not turned off for 11
years).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 06/01/2014 20:02, Lobster wrote:
I've just bought a reasonable-sized order with an apparently reputable
internet LED supplier for refitting parts of my home with LED lighting
(having replaced the kitchen downlighters about 6 months ago I've been
really pleased with the results and am now on a roll...!)

Hmmm. I have been on the look out for LED replacements for a couple of
halogen security lights. Interesting statement from them about this:

"Swapping your existing Flood Lights to LED lights will not only
increase your bank balance but it will also help save our planet by
reducing your carbon footprint."

Eh? Exactly how will swapping to LED increase my bank balance? It may
reduce it more slowly but I cannot for the life of me see how it can
increase it.

Andrew May wrote:

"Swapping your existing Flood Lights to LED lights will not only
increase your bank balance but it will also help save our planet by
reducing your carbon footprint."

Eh? Exactly how will swapping to LED increase my bank balance?

Yes, they do tend to hyperbole, think how much lower their prices could
be if they weren't funding Beanie's breeding habits ...