http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...com/node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?
Heh Heh.

On 26/12/2013 09:30, harryagain wrote:
http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...com/node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?
Heh Heh.


Well, West facing panels are currently not working for Ricoh.

They have a billboard near the M4 with East *and* West facing panels on
it, aong with windmills on the top, and a big sign saying that the panel
is powered by renewable energy. There's also a large battery meter on
it, which has been reading flat now for some weeks. The floodlights
aren't working, either, so you can only read it at night by the spill
from the streetlights.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Shot in the foot time then.

Mind you Winter is not exactly the best time for it unless the wind
turbines can cope with gales.
brain

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"John Williamson" wrote in message
...
On 26/12/2013 09:30, harryagain wrote:
http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...com/node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?
Heh Heh.


Well, West facing panels are currently not working for Ricoh.

They have a billboard near the M4 with East *and* West facing panels on
it, aong with windmills on the top, and a big sign saying that the panel
is powered by renewable energy. There's also a large battery meter on it,
which has been reading flat now for some weeks. The floodlights aren't
working, either, so you can only read it at night by the spill from the
streetlights.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 27/12/2013 08:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
Shot in the foot time then.

Mind you Winter is not exactly the best time for it unless the wind
turbines can cope with gales.
brain


We currently seem to be getting 10% of our grid supply from wind, so I'm
not sure why people say that "turbines can't generate if it's too windy"

On 27/12/13 12:10, OG wrote:
On 27/12/2013 08:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
Shot in the foot time then.

Mind you Winter is not exactly the best time for it unless the wind
turbines can cope with gales.
brain


We currently seem to be getting 10% of our grid supply from wind, so I'm
not sure why people say that "turbines can't generate if it's too windy"

because we SHOULD be getting a lot more.

If they could. We are running at about 55% capacity factor with what you
might think would be the 'best wind' conditions.


Not that we need it: Christmas consumption is massively lower than
working days. And the air temp is around 10C.



--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 27/12/2013 12:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/12/13 12:10, OG wrote:
On 27/12/2013 08:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
Shot in the foot time then.

Mind you Winter is not exactly the best time for it unless the wind
turbines can cope with gales.
brain


We currently seem to be getting 10% of our grid supply from wind, so I'm
not sure why people say that "turbines can't generate if it's too windy"

because we SHOULD be getting a lot more.

If they could. We are running at about 55% capacity factor with what you
might think would be the 'best wind' conditions.

72% not 55%

Not that we need it: Christmas consumption is massively lower than
working days. And the air temp is around 10C.


But the ********-mongers insist that "turbines can't generate" when
quite clearly they can.

On 26/12/2013 11:20, John Williamson wrote:
On 26/12/2013 09:30, harryagain wrote:
http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...com/node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?
Heh Heh.

Well, West facing panels are currently not working for Ricoh.

I expect they get paid for installed capacity rather than supply. I have
seen "green" solar energy panels on the roof of a new "green" eco
building in woodland where they only get sun on them at all in high
summer and parts are always in shade (which ruins efficiency).

They have a billboard near the M4 with East *and* West facing panels on
it, aong with windmills on the top, and a big sign saying that the panel
is powered by renewable energy. There's also a large battery meter on
it, which has been reading flat now for some weeks. The floodlights
aren't working, either, so you can only read it at night by the spill
from the streetlights.

We have loads of those active "please go around this dangerous bend"
signs up here in North Yorkshire. They don't make a bit of difference!

Unfortunately they are all dead in the water on frosty winter mornings
and even when they are working it doesn't stop morons from doing this:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=D%26S+c...onversationid=

This happened in mid summer when the active signage *was* working.

To be fair it is a fairly tight 40mph bend after a long straight.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 09:30:23 +0000, harryagain wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

On 26/12/2013 11:40, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 09:30:23 +0000, harryagain wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

If you read the article, it actually says that pointing the panels West
reduces the totsal output, but increases it in the evening, when the
householder turns on the air conditioning, so that more of the power
generated is consumed inside the house, and less is exported.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:54:43 +0000, John Williamson wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

If you read the article, it actually says that pointing the panels West
reduces the totsal output

Not quite what it says...
"...found that homeowners who aimed their panels toward the west, instead
of the south, generated 2% more electricity over the course of a day"

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:54:43 +0000, John Williamson wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

If you read the article, it actually says that pointing the panels West
reduces the totsal output

Not quite what it says...
"...found that homeowners who aimed their panels toward the west, instead
of the south, generated 2% more electricity over the course of a day"

It depends which way the ground is sloping.
If there is high ground to the East, sunrise is later.
Also sea air is often hazy.

As they are way to the South of us, the panels will be nearly flat so 5%
will be about right.
In the UK 35 degrees is optimum. You would loose a lot more by going away
from South.

On 26/12/2013 16:50, harryagain wrote:
....
In the UK 35 degrees is optimum. You would loose a lot more by going away
from South.

If your aim is to maximise subsidy, rather than to produce the maximum
output when it is likely to be needed most, then 35 degrees is a good
compromise angle for fixed panels for much of the UK. It is not the
optimum angle, which varies from day to day and upon actual location; 35
degrees is near enough the optimum angle for May and July in Brighton or
for June in Aberdeen. For December, the optimum angle is around 80
degrees in Aberdeen and 74 degrees in Brighton.

Colin Bignell

On 26/12/2013 11:57, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:54:43 +0000, John Williamson wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

If you read the article, it actually says that pointing the panels West
reduces the totsal output

The original paper by chance shows a 2% better result for the period
examined but the statistics on a small sample are well within the noise.

Not quite what it says...
"...found that homeowners who aimed their panels toward the west, instead
of the south, generated 2% more electricity over the course of a day"

If you count the appalling statistics that the original paper used as
"evidence". The greenwash blog postings have become ever more divorced
from reality as this story has propagated away from Austin Texas.

Worth going back to the horse's mouth...

http://www.pecanstreet.org/2013/11/y...the-wrong-way/

Is a reasonable dissection of these lemmings jumping off cliffs from the
original authors of the paper that started this lunacy.

The thing it does say is that from a payback perspective if you live at
a hot low latitude where aircon in late afternoon affects the dynamic
electricity pricing then it may be cost effective to point the array
westwards (*and* also alter the slope angle). I reckon based on their
numbers pointing it WSW to SW should optimise returns.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 30/12/2013 12:54, Martin Brown wrote:
On 26/12/2013 11:57, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 11:54:43 +0000, John Williamson wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

If you read the article, it actually says that pointing the panels West
reduces the totsal output

The original paper by chance shows a 2% better result for the period
examined but the statistics on a small sample are well within the noise.

Not quite what it says...
"...found that homeowners who aimed their panels toward the west, instead
of the south, generated 2% more electricity over the course of a day"

If you count the appalling statistics that the original paper used as
"evidence". The greenwash blog postings have become ever more divorced
from reality as this story has propagated away from Austin Texas.

Worth going back to the horse's mouth...

http://www.pecanstreet.org/2013/11/y...the-wrong-way/


Is a reasonable dissection of these lemmings jumping off cliffs from the
original authors of the paper that started this lunacy.

The thing it does say is that from a payback perspective if you live at
a hot low latitude where aircon in late afternoon affects the dynamic
electricity pricing then it may be cost effective to point the array
westwards (*and* also alter the slope angle). I reckon based on their
numbers pointing it WSW to SW should optimise returns.


The trouble is saying they should face south doesn't take weather into
account.
If you frequently get early morning mist/fog you may well be better off
facing West where the mist/fog will have burnt off.
You really need to fit a tracker if you want the most output.


PS, just to start a debate, as panels produce less as they get hot
should they be water cooled by spraying water on them?

On 26/12/2013 11:40 Adrian wrote:

On Thu, 26 Dec 2013 09:30:23 +0000, harryagain wrote:

http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...-solar-panels-
are-likely-facing-the-wrong-/original/?original=www.planetizen.com/
node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

"Tests in Austin, Texas". 30deg N

I wonder if there might be a difference here. 52deg N.

Have a play at http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php if you
want to see the effects of location and orientation.

--
F

On 26/12/2013 09:30, harryagain wrote:
http://smartertrends.co.uk/articles/...com/node/66125

Are your PV panels facing the right way?

Depends on whether they are feed-in panels or not.

And any study based on a tiny number of homes in 1 US city is probably
more or less meaningless.

Heh Heh.
!