By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop completely?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


I would think it would be stone dead. Any particular reason for asking?

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




GU10s ARE 230V lamps:-)

--

Adam


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ARW wrote:

"The Medway Handyman" wrote:

the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

GU10s ARE 230V lamps:-)

But they last *so* much longer when run on 12V :-)

On 08/11/13 18:39, The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


never had one do anything but stop completely.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 08/11/2013 18:54, ARW wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


GU10s ARE 230V lamps:-)

Been a long week.... I mean MR16's :-)




--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

ARW wrote:
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




GU10s ARE 230V lamps:-)

--

Adam

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Well apart from the 12v ones that you can buy!

eg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Osram-Haloge.../dp/B000G6HOMA

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:39:23 AM UTC+13, The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.
When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop completely?

I used to rewind transformers and saw many burned out ones, and some that simply corroded inside because of cheap insulation containing sulphur.
There's no way I would put a transformer up inside a ceiling, and especially not if surrounded by insulation to make sure it overheats.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2013 11:17:05 -0800 (PST), Matty F
wrote:

On Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:39:23 AM UTC+13, The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.
When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop completely?

I used to rewind transformers and saw many burned out ones, and some that simply corroded inside because of cheap insulation containing sulphur.
There's no way I would put a transformer up inside a ceiling, and especially not if surrounded by insulation to make sure it overheats.

A couple of suggestions - the Varilight range of electronic
transformers Have served me well for a number of years without
problems and I mount them on a piece of plasterboard which I fix to
the top of a joist.

--
rbel

On 08/11/13 19:17, Matty F wrote:
On Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:39:23 AM UTC+13, The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.
When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop completely?

I used to rewind transformers and saw many burned out ones, and some that simply corroded inside because of cheap insulation containing sulphur.
There's no way I would put a transformer up inside a ceiling, and especially not if surrounded by insulation to make sure it overheats.

mine came in steel cans with thermal cutouts.


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 08/11/2013 19:17, Matty F wrote:
On Saturday, November 9, 2013 7:39:23 AM UTC+13, The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.
When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop completely?

I used to rewind transformers and saw many burned out ones, and some that simply corroded inside because of cheap insulation containing sulphur.
There's no way I would put a transformer up inside a ceiling, and especially not if surrounded by insulation to make sure it overheats.



Now that you can get 3 to 4 watt GU10s that produce far less heat, I
question what advantage you gain from a transformer/switch mode PSU and
12v LED MR16's......

I can see that 12v MR16 incandescents would last a lot longer than
GU10's but I don't believe this is the case for LED equivalents.

On 08/11/2013 19:01, Bob Minchin wrote:

Well apart from the 12v ones that you can buy!

eg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Osram-Haloge.../dp/B000G6HOMA


The part number is a 230V one.

dennis@home wrote:
On 08/11/2013 19:01, Bob Minchin wrote:

Well apart from the 12v ones that you can buy!

eg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Osram-Haloge.../dp/B000G6HOMA



The part number is a 230V one.
OIC
Rightly or wrongly, google seemed to find numbers 12v GU10 lamps and
that link was just one of them.

In article ,
Bob Minchin writes:
ARW wrote:

GU10s ARE 230V lamps:-)

Well apart from the 12v ones that you can buy!

eg
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Osram-Haloge.../dp/B000G6HOMA

That product makes no sense, given GU10 lampholders are rated 2A max.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Stephen writes:

Now that you can get 3 to 4 watt GU10s that produce far less heat, I
question what advantage you gain from a transformer/switch mode PSU and
12v LED MR16's......

+1

I can see that 12v MR16 incandescents would last a lot longer than
GU10's but I don't believe this is the case for LED equivalents.

There is a much larger ramge to 230V LEDs than there are 12V ones,
because in most cases 12V LEDs won't work as retrofits on 12V halogen
transformers (and don't yet match the light output of 12V halogens).

I would never have fitted GU10 mains halogens, always used 12V
halogens instead. However, LEDs kind of reverse this decision.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
rbel wrote:
A couple of suggestions - the Varilight range of electronic
transformers Have served me well for a number of years without
problems and I mount them on a piece of plasterboard which I fix to
the top of a joist.

Some electronic types are designed to fit through the hole for the fitting
- which makes for easy changing if one fails. If you fix it to a joist
that might be difficult.

--
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Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/11/2013 21:26, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Stephen writes:
Now that you can get 3 to 4 watt GU10s that produce far less heat, I
question what advantage you gain from a transformer/switch mode PSU and
12v LED MR16's......
+1

I can see that 12v MR16 incandescents would last a lot longer than
GU10's but I don't believe this is the case for LED equivalents.
There is a much larger ramge to 230V LEDs than there are 12V ones,
because in most cases 12V LEDs won't work as retrofits on 12V halogen
transformers (and don't yet match the light output of 12V halogens).

I would never have fitted GU10 mains halogens, always used 12V
halogens instead. However, LEDs kind of reverse this decision.

+1

We've had 10 LED GU10s in the kitchen for nearly 2 years now, we used to
have to replace the standard ones every few months.

--
David

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?

Is it a real transformer or an electronic power supply? (Transformer is
usually heavy, PS light.)

I suppose it is possible for either to produce low volts - but not common.

--
*If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried before

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?

Is it a real transformer or an electronic power supply? (Transformer is
usually heavy, PS light.)

I suppose it is possible for either to produce low volts - but not common.


I have seen failed electronic ones give a reading on the LV side when tested
with a volt stick (there is not really 230V there but it still lights up the
stick).

--
Adam


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Erm, well, usually dies with a blown fuse and a nice smell of hot plastic
and other noxious materials, well thats been my experience.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Well most 12 or hight voltage buldb transformers I've had have just gone
into overheat mode probably shorted turns and then the current has blown the
fuses.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"ARW" wrote in message
...
"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk




GU10s ARE 230V lamps:-)

--

Adam

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protection is active.
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On 09/11/2013 07:49, ARW wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?

Is it a real transformer or an electronic power supply? (Transformer is
usually heavy, PS light.)

I suppose it is possible for either to produce low volts - but not
common.


I have seen failed electronic ones give a reading on the LV side when
tested with a volt stick (there is not really 230V there but it still
lights up the stick).

Thats what I was after. Just taken on 15 flats in Rochester, all of
which have ELV lights everywhere. Looks like I need to use a DMM
instead of a volt stick.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
I have seen failed electronic ones give a reading on the LV side when
tested with a volt stick (there is not really 230V there but it still
lights up the stick).

Thats what I was after. Just taken on 15 flats in Rochester, all of
which have ELV lights everywhere. Looks like I need to use a DMM
instead of a volt stick.

You need to measure the volts under load. Which in practice means with a
bulb in place. If you have 240v present at the input, the bulb tests the
rest. Using a volt stick or DVM with no load tells you very little -
especially with a SMPS which may not even switch on with no load.

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 08/11/13 18:39, The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?


never had one do anything but stop completely.



They're not really transformers, more isolated (& lightly regulated)
high frequency inverters. The most likely failure is to let the magic
smoke out of the semiconductors with zero output though there could be
failure modes leading to reduced output.

It is unlikely that there would be failure modes resulting in
significantly higher voltage output and *very* unlikely that mains would
appear directly on the output.

Chris K

In article ,
The Medway Handyman writes:
On 09/11/2013 07:49, ARW wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?

Is it a real transformer or an electronic power supply? (Transformer is
usually heavy, PS light.)

I suppose it is possible for either to produce low volts - but not
common.


I have seen failed electronic ones give a reading on the LV side when
tested with a volt stick (there is not really 230V there but it still
lights up the stick).

Thats what I was after. Just taken on 15 flats in Rochester, all of
which have ELV lights everywhere. Looks like I need to use a DMM
instead of a volt stick.

ELV electronic transformers only work when they have the right load.
Every one of them has both a lower limit, and an upper limit. You
have to use a load which is within that range. Usually, it's a factor
of 3 between the limits - some common ratings a
20-60W
35-105W
50-150W

Outside their working range, they will shut down.

What you could do is carry around a known working test 50W MR16 lamp
with matching lampholder with leads. Then test the transformer by
connecting this test lamp to it. 50W is a good choice because it's
within the working range of many of the common transformers.
You can try your test lamp by substitution first, and if that doesn't
work, substitute the lampholder too (which also fail from time to time).

These transformers are dirt cheap anyway if you buy from the right
place, so carrying some spares to substitute is also worthwhile.

In the case of 20W MR16's, I would consider replacing with 240V GU10
fittings (discarding the transformer) with an LED. (GU10 LEDs aren't
yet bright enough to replace the higher wattage 12V MR16's.)

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

It happens that The Medway Handyman formulated :
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop completely?

Doing you really mean a transformer or a SMPSU?

In either case, you can get either symptom.

--
Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 09/11/13 14:52, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
It happens that The Medway Handyman formulated :
By which I mean the ones that drop 230v to 12v to run GU10's.

When the transformer fails, does it drop in voltage or just stop
completely?

Doing you really mean a transformer or a SMPSU?

In either case, you can get either symptom.

very hard for a pure transformer to give lower output without going up
in flames pretty quickly

Only dimmable electronics can do that. I takes a very specific fault to
get any others to actually reduce voltage and stay intact.

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 14:31:11 +0000 (UTC),
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:


ELV electronic transformers only work when they have the right load.
Every one of them has both a lower limit, and an upper limit. You
have to use a load which is within that range. Usually, it's a factor
of 3 between the limits - some common ratings a
20-60W
35-105W
50-150W

Outside their working range, they will shut down.

These Varilight units which I use (from TLC appear) state that they
operate from 0W upwards to maximum rating
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/LTYT150.html

--
rbel