Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/valve.jpg

-- Richard

Richard Tobin wrote:
Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's of.)

--
Scott

In article ,
Scott M wrote:

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's of.)

Yes it's a toilet cistern, which fills *very* slowly (several
minutes). I can't see anything wrong with the valve in the cistern.
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

-- Richard

On Thursday 19 September 2013 14:30 Richard Tobin wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/valve.jpg

-- Richard

Service valve.

Flow restrictors look like:

http://www.bes.ltd.uk/products/graphics/17527.gif


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In article ,
Richard Tobin wrote:
Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/valve.jpg

-- Richard

Service valve and it will restrict the flow. Replace it with a full flow
type if its a problem.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/09/2013 14:30, Richard Tobin wrote:

Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

Yes (both!)

The flow restriction however won't be much. You can get "full bore"
service valves which don't restrict the flow at all.

If its slow filling, then its more likely to be a problem with lack of
water pressure in the first place, or a problem with the cistern float
valve.


--
Cheers,

John.

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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
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Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Scott M wrote:

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's of.)

Yes it's a toilet cistern, which fills *very* slowly (several
minutes). I can't see anything wrong with the valve in the cistern.
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Sounds like it's the sort of valve to have a choice of lo and high
pressure inlet port and it's got the wrong one in it. For some cistern
fillers the low pressure inlet doofa is clipped to the arm (and usually
red) and needs swapping over.

The service valve won't make that much odds to fill rate.

--
Scott

On 19/09/2013 16:47, Scott M wrote:

Sounds like it's the sort of valve to have a choice of lo and high
pressure inlet port and it's got the wrong one in it. For some cistern
fillers the low pressure inlet doofa is clipped to the arm (and usually
red) and needs swapping over.

Yes, but there was no mention of it being newly installed. If it used
to fill OK look for a build-up of sludge/grit/crud at the cistern
outlet, in the pipework or in the float valve. Temporarily back-feeding
with mains pressure water might clean it out (YMMV).

--
Andy

In article ,
Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Scott M wrote:

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's
of.)

Yes it's a toilet cistern, which fills *very* slowly (several
minutes). I can't see anything wrong with the valve in the cistern.
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

two immediate possibilities spring to mind.

1. The wrong vales (ie a high pressure one) has been fitted
2. Hard water deposits have started to block the feed pipe or valve. It
might simply be a matter of removing the valve, taking it apart, cleaning
it and putting it all back.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/valve.jpg

-- Richard


The hole in that valve is much smaller than the pipe. But OK for normal
mains pressure in most circumstances.
You only need full bore valves for low pressures like from domestic tanks
and heating systems.

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Scott M wrote:

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's
of.)

Yes it's a toilet cistern, which fills *very* slowly (several
minutes). I can't see anything wrong with the valve in the cistern.
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

-- Richard

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure you may find there is a filter
which might be blocked.
If the float is very tiny, it is a pilot operated valve and there will be a
filter on the inlet side, you will have to disconnect the incoming water
pipe.
Has this always been so BTW?

Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Scott M wrote:

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's of.)

Yes it's a toilet cistern, which fills *very* slowly (several
minutes). I can't see anything wrong with the valve in the cistern.
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

-- Richard

As others have said, replace it with a full bore valve and consider a
different filling valve for the cistern. Some will work better with low
pressure than others. A good plumbers merchant should be able to advise
you as to the best kind.

Alternatively, convert all your cold waster system to mains pressure and
just leave the tank feeding your HW tank.

Tim

On 19/09/2013 14:30, Richard Tobin wrote:
Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~richard/valve.jpg

-- Richard


It's a simple service valve and - unless the ball has become detached
from the screw (which *can* happen) - it appears to be fully open.

[I do use mine as a flow restrictor by setting the screw at about 45
degrees, but it's not really designed for that].

More likely that a restrictor intended for a mains feed has been fitted
in the fill valve itself. Has it ever filled at a decent rate? If so,
there must be a blockage somewhere along the line.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message

The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...

And you wonder why we take the ****?

--
Scott

On 19/09/2013 18:04, charles wrote:
In article ,
Richard Tobin wrote:
In article ,
Scott M wrote:

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's
of.)

Yes it's a toilet cistern, which fills *very* slowly (several
minutes). I can't see anything wrong with the valve in the cistern.
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

two immediate possibilities spring to mind.

1. The wrong vales (ie a high pressure one) has been fitted
2. Hard water deposits have started to block the feed pipe or valve. It
might simply be a matter of removing the valve, taking it apart, cleaning
it and putting it all back.

Try combining the two - that is what it was like in this downstairs WC
in this house. :-) Took towards ten minutes to refill before we changed
the whole caboodle.

--
Rod

In article ,
Roger Mills wrote:

More likely that a restrictor intended for a mains feed has been fitted
in the fill valve itself. Has it ever filled at a decent rate? If so,
there must be a blockage somewhere along the line.

I'm not certain it's ever filled at a good rate, as I don't use it
much. I don't *think* it's always been this bad though. It's
certainly not a hard water problem because I'm in Edinburgh - lime
scale dissolves off kettles brought from elsewhere.

If I take the valve off and find it has a restrictor inside it, can
I remove it completely? Or does it need to be replaced with some
less restrictive restrictor?

-- Richard

On 19/09/2013 21:46, Richard Tobin wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:

More likely that a restrictor intended for a mains feed has been fitted
in the fill valve itself. Has it ever filled at a decent rate? If so,
there must be a blockage somewhere along the line.

I'm not certain it's ever filled at a good rate, as I don't use it
much. I don't *think* it's always been this bad though. It's
certainly not a hard water problem because I'm in Edinburgh - lime
scale dissolves off kettles brought from elsewhere.

If I take the valve off and find it has a restrictor inside it, can
I remove it completely? Or does it need to be replaced with some
less restrictive restrictor?

-- Richard

Assuming you're talking about the fill valve - the service valve you
photographed won't have a restrictor - remove it altogether. It will be
in the form of a nylon insert a couple of inches long which more or less
blocks the inlet pipe, forcing the water round a narrow spiral path. For
a low pressure - tank-fed - system, you don't need it at all.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message

The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...

And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon.
In days of yore most WC tanks were fed from a header tank in the roof space
to make the fill quick and silent.

In article ,
harryagain wrote:

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message

The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...

And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon. In days of yore most WC tanks were fed
from a header tank in the roof space to make the fill quick and silent.


Still are here. Only things on mains are cold taps you might drink from.
And the outside loo. ;-)

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

harryagain wrote:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.
Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...
And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon.
In days of yore most WC tanks were fed from a header tank in the roof space
to make the fill quick and silent.

I'm sorry, but are you congenitally thick or did you have to have
special training? Do I have to write slowly for you?

"Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure," you wrote, not two lines
after y'man tells you about the cold water tank. That's why I was poking
fun. And you *still* can't see it.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Roger Mills wrote:
On 19/09/2013 21:46, Richard Tobin wrote:
In ,
Roger wrote:

More likely that a restrictor intended for a mains feed has been fitted
in the fill valve itself. Has it ever filled at a decent rate? If so,
there must be a blockage somewhere along the line.

I'm not certain it's ever filled at a good rate, as I don't use it
much. I don't *think* it's always been this bad though. It's
certainly not a hard water problem because I'm in Edinburgh - lime
scale dissolves off kettles brought from elsewhere.

If I take the valve off and find it has a restrictor inside it, can
I remove it completely? Or does it need to be replaced with some
less restrictive restrictor?

-- Richard

Assuming you're talking about the fill valve - the service valve you
photographed won't have a restrictor - remove it altogether. It will be
in the form of a nylon insert a couple of inches long which more or less
blocks the inlet pipe, forcing the water round a narrow spiral path. For
a low pressure - tank-fed - system, you don't need it at all.

*I* know what you mean Roger but not the clearest of explanations!

As you say, the service valve in the photo won't have a restrictor. It is,
by design, quite a good restrictor for gravity fed systems. It should be
replaced with a full bore valve.

The ball cock/cistern filling valve *may* have a flow restrictor on the
inlet which will be as you describe. If there is one in the cistern valve
inlet it should be removed.

Tim

On 20/09/2013 17:06, harryagain wrote:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message

The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...

And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon.

Is that how you refer to people who can read?

In days of yore most WC tanks were fed from a header tank in the roof space
to make the fill quick and silent.

slow and silent...

there fixed it for you.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
harryagain wrote:

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message

The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...

And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon. In days of yore most WC tanks were fed
from a header tank in the roof space to make the fill quick and silent.


Still are here. Only things on mains are cold taps you might drink from.
And the outside loo. ;-)

I didn't know there were any left.
You still use them where you are?
Blue ring round you arse jobs?

"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.
Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...
And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon.
In days of yore most WC tanks were fed from a header tank in the roof
space to make the fill quick and silent.

I'm sorry, but are you congenitally thick or did you have to have special
training? Do I have to write slowly for you?

"Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure," you wrote, not two lines
after y'man tells you about the cold water tank. That's why I was poking
fun. And you *still* can't see it.

I can see you have a comprehension problem.
The OP did not say the toilet was fed from the tank.
If it is, the problem is likely he has a high (mains) pressure jet in his
float valve in the WC tank.
In days of yore all float valves came with high and low pressure jets, you
fitted the appropriate one.

You could drill out a high pressure jey to convert it. The hole would be
around 4 or 5mm in a low pressure jet.
Around 2mm in a high pressure jet.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
news
On 20/09/2013 17:06, harryagain wrote:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message

The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.

Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...

And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon.

Is that how you refer to people who can read?

In days of yore most WC tanks were fed from a header tank in the roof
space
to make the fill quick and silent.

slow and silent...

there fixed it for you.

They were fast and silent. The hole in the jet in the float valve was bigger
for the low pressure.
But not as big as the hole in your head.

Two jets were supplied with float valve in days of yore. For mains pressure
and for tanks.

On 22/09/2013 08:34, harryagain wrote:
I can see you have a comprehension problem.
The OP did not say the toilet was fed from the tank.

Why on earth would he mention that tank and that it was about five feet
higher if the WC cistern is mains-fed? A very reasonable inference is
that it is tank-fed.

--
Rod

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Why on earth would he mention that tank and that it was about five feet
higher if the WC cistern is mains-fed? A very reasonable inference is
that it is tank-fed.

It is.

-- Richard

"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
...
In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Why on earth would he mention that tank and that it was about five feet
higher if the WC cistern is mains-fed? A very reasonable inference is
that it is tank-fed.

It is.

-- Richard

Then you likely have a high pressure jet in your WC float valve, (assumng
it's a traditional one)

You don't see low pressure jets so much these days. It can be carefully
drilled out as per previous posting.

On Thursday, September 19, 2013 2:30:39 PM UTC+1, Richard Tobin wrote:
Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

It's a service valve, the hole through the valve is about 6 or 8mm, it restricts the flow but shouldn't cause a problem.
The float valve is more likely the problem if filling is excessively slow.

I looked at a problem (flow to wash-basin had slowed to a trickle) involving those.
There was no lid on the water storage tank in the loft and draughts had blown bits of mineral fibre insulation into the water.
The insulation fibres accumulated in the holes of the service valves and blocked the flow.
Drained tank, removed valves, blow clear, refit. Until the next time. ;-)

On 22/09/2013 08:34, harryagain wrote:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Scott M" wrote in message
...
harryagain wrote:
"Richard Tobin" wrote in message
The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels.
Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure...
And you wonder why we take the ****?

Well you are an ignorant goon.
In days of yore most WC tanks were fed from a header tank in the roof
space to make the fill quick and silent.

I'm sorry, but are you congenitally thick or did you have to have special
training? Do I have to write slowly for you?

"Assuming your toilet is on mains pressure," you wrote, not two lines
after y'man tells you about the cold water tank. That's why I was poking
fun. And you *still* can't see it.

I can see you have a comprehension problem.
The OP did not say the toilet was fed from the tank.

Who was it with the comprehension problem again?

In Richard's second post:

"The cold water tank is only a few feet above though - maybe 5 feet
between the water levels."


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 19/09/2013 14:51, Scott M wrote:
Richard Tobin wrote:
Is this a simple service valve or is it restricting the flow?

It's a simple service valve but, by dint of the small bore through the
rotating ball, will have some flow restricting properties. Unlikely to
be a problem inline with a cistern filler (which I presume the photo's of.)



service isolation valve
If it worked OK previously take a look at the float valve ... probably
sticking or gunged up .... a new Torbeck is cheap enough.


--
UK SelfBuild: http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Selfbuild/