I need to rearrange some of the plumbing under the kitchen worktop so I can
push the appliances back further in the slots, & I have a few random
questions about the input & output.

We have a cold-feed-only washing machine in place & a cold-feed-only
dishwasher on order. There are 2 cold connections & 1 hot one; the
hot one has never leaked yet, but I'm a little nervous. Is there a
secure cap I can put over the unused hot connection? Or should I just
remove it & cap the hot pipe off because cold-and-hot-feed appliances
are very unlikely to appear again?

(The strange thing is that when we moved into the house, there were 2
hot connections & 1 cold one.)

What do I need to do (apart from turning the gas off) to make it safe
to solder a joint on a copper water pipe a few cm away from a gas
pipe? Or should I just use a compression fitting?

The two waste pipes currently meet at a T above the kitchen floor; the
merged pipe goes under the floor then runs under the kitchen and
through the wall, where it opens over a drain. I haven't been under
the kitchen floor in a long time, & I can't remember whether there's a
trap in there.

I plan to change it so two waste pipes both go vertically down through
the floor and meet underneath, then run to & through the outside wall
(using solvent-weld). Do I need separate traps for each pipe? Should
I leave a trapdoor under one of the appliance positions in case I need
to unblock them later?

Thanks,
Adam

On Thursday 29 August 2013 12:15 Adam Funk wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I need to rearrange some of the plumbing under the kitchen worktop so I
can push the appliances back further in the slots, & I have a few random
questions about the input & output.

We have a cold-feed-only washing machine in place & a cold-feed-only
dishwasher on order. There are 2 cold connections & 1 hot one; the
hot one has never leaked yet, but I'm a little nervous. Is there a
secure cap I can put over the unused hot connection?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121145339836

3/4" BSP cap with washer. Available in most fine plumbers merchants and
maybe even B&Q.

Or should I just
remove it & cap the hot pipe off because cold-and-hot-feed appliances
are very unlikely to appear again?

That would also be a safe bet. I have not plumbed hot to my machines.

(The strange thing is that when we moved into the house, there were 2
hot connections & 1 cold one.)

What do I need to do (apart from turning the gas off) to make it safe
to solder a joint on a copper water pipe a few cm away from a gas
pipe? Or should I just use a compression fitting?

If you are not near a gas joint (that teh heat could disrupt or melt), no
major precautions are necessary beyond standard good practise - but I would
turn of the gas anyway.

Use a heat shield mat - which you want to do anyway to protect the wall.

But a compression joint would be just as good if soldering near gas makes
you nervous. Or even a push fit end cap.

The two waste pipes currently meet at a T above the kitchen floor; the
merged pipe goes under the floor then runs under the kitchen and
through the wall, where it opens over a drain. I haven't been under
the kitchen floor in a long time, & I can't remember whether there's a
trap in there.

I plan to change it so two waste pipes both go vertically down through
the floor and meet underneath, then run to & through the outside wall
(using solvent-weld). Do I need separate traps for each pipe?

No. I have a combined trap for 2 machines. However my trap was made out of
bits of 50mm solvent weld plumbing with screw caps on tees at one top and
one bottom bend to enbale access for unblocking.

So if using one trap make sure it can take the flow of 2 machines at once
(sod's law says they will align at some point!).

Should
I leave a trapdoor under one of the appliance positions in case I need
to unblock them later?

Either that or have a method for being able to pull a machine out - eg sit
it on rollers or have some scraps of hardboard stored away.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:15:18 +0100, Adam Funk
wrote:

No particular comment to make about the feeds.

The two waste pipes currently meet at a T above the kitchen floor; the
merged pipe goes under the floor then runs under the kitchen and
through the wall, where it opens over a drain. I haven't been under
the kitchen floor in a long time, & I can't remember whether there's a
trap in there.

There are at least two primary purposes to a trap ...
1) To keep out drain smells
2) To trap objects that may cause a blockage
.... but a third is to prevent waste from one source adversely
affecting the others.

I would say that you need a trap for each individual item whether it
be sink/basin, or one or other machine.

This is based on formerly plumbing in a dishwasher into a system that
already had a standpipe for a washing machine. There was a bottle
trap under the sink, and a u-trap for the standpipe, so I inserted a
second standpipe for the dishwasher between the existing washing
machine one and its trap, expecting them to share the trap quite
happily. However, what actually happened was that soapy water from
the washing machine gradually caused froth to rise up the second
standpipe and overflow all over the kitchen cupboard. I had to insert
an expensive waste flap-valve in the dishwasher standpipe to prevent
this happening.

I plan to change it so two waste pipes both go vertically down through
the floor and meet underneath, then run to & through the outside wall
(using solvent-weld). Do I need separate traps for each pipe?

As above, most definitely yes.

Should
I leave a trapdoor under one of the appliance positions in case I need
to unblock them later?

Some sort of easy access might be wise, but see what others say.
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
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http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On 2013-08-29, Adam Funk wrote:

(The strange thing is that when we moved into the house, there were 2
hot connections & 1 cold one.)

And two "slots" for appliances under the worktop. Did hot-feed-only
appliances ever exist?

On 2013-08-29, Tim Watts wrote:

On Thursday 29 August 2013 12:15 Adam Funk wrote in uk.d-i-y:

I need to rearrange some of the plumbing under the kitchen worktop so I
can push the appliances back further in the slots, & I have a few random
questions about the input & output.

We have a cold-feed-only washing machine in place & a cold-feed-only
dishwasher on order. There are 2 cold connections & 1 hot one; the
hot one has never leaked yet, but I'm a little nervous. Is there a
secure cap I can put over the unused hot connection?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121145339836

3/4" BSP cap with washer. Available in most fine plumbers merchants and
maybe even B&Q.

Excellent, I'll probably use that.

Or should I just
remove it & cap the hot pipe off because cold-and-hot-feed appliances
are very unlikely to appear again?

That would also be a safe bet. I have not plumbed hot to my machines.


What do I need to do (apart from turning the gas off) to make it safe
to solder a joint on a copper water pipe a few cm away from a gas
pipe? Or should I just use a compression fitting?

If you are not near a gas joint (that teh heat could disrupt or melt), no
major precautions are necessary beyond standard good practise - but I would
turn of the gas anyway.

Use a heat shield mat - which you want to do anyway to protect the wall.

I have one of those, & meant to mention it, but it disappeared when I
was rearranging those sentences!


But a compression joint would be just as good if soldering near gas makes
you nervous. Or even a push fit end cap.

The two waste pipes currently meet at a T above the kitchen floor; the
merged pipe goes under the floor then runs under the kitchen and
through the wall, where it opens over a drain. I haven't been under
the kitchen floor in a long time, & I can't remember whether there's a
trap in there.

I plan to change it so two waste pipes both go vertically down through
the floor and meet underneath, then run to & through the outside wall
(using solvent-weld). Do I need separate traps for each pipe?

No. I have a combined trap for 2 machines. However my trap was made out of
bits of 50mm solvent weld plumbing with screw caps on tees at one top and
one bottom bend to enbale access for unblocking.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean but I think it's something like this
(where XXXs are threaded caps)? If so, I like it.


in
| |
| | |XXX|
| | | |
| | | -----
| | | out
| | | -----
| | | |
| | | |
| ----- |
| |
| --------|
| |
|XXX|


So if using one trap make sure it can take the flow of 2 machines at once
(sod's law says they will align at some point!).

Well, I've been running a washer-dryer & a dishwasher through the
existing set-up, which I'm sure has at most 1 trap, for 10 years.

On Thursday 29 August 2013 15:02 Adam Funk wrote in uk.d-i-y:

and one bottom bend to enbale access for unblocking.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean but I think it's something like this
(where XXXs are threaded caps)? If so, I like it.


in
| |
| | |XXX|
| | | |
| | | -----
| | | out
| | | -----
| | | |
| | | |
| ----- |
| |
| --------|
| |
|XXX|


Yes - pretty much. Mine is under the stairs behind the machines so very
accessible


So if using one trap make sure it can take the flow of 2 machines at once
(sod's law says they will align at some point!).

Well, I've been running a washer-dryer & a dishwasher through the
existing set-up, which I'm sure has at most 1 trap, for 10 years.



--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 29/08/2013 12:15, Adam Funk wrote:

We have a cold-feed-only washing machine in place & a cold-feed-only
dishwasher on order. There are 2 cold connections & 1 hot one; the
hot one has never leaked yet, but I'm a little nervous. Is there a

I have not seen one start leaking without provocation. ;-)

secure cap I can put over the unused hot connection? Or should I just
remove it & cap the hot pipe off because cold-and-hot-feed appliances
are very unlikely to appear again?

If you are that fussed, a compression stop end may mate with the
existing backnut and olive from the tap.

What do I need to do (apart from turning the gas off) to make it safe
to solder a joint on a copper water pipe a few cm away from a gas
pipe? Or should I just use a compression fitting?

Stick a couple of layers (i.e. folded) heat mat in the way to protect
the gas pipe.

The two waste pipes currently meet at a T above the kitchen floor; the
merged pipe goes under the floor then runs under the kitchen and
through the wall, where it opens over a drain. I haven't been under
the kitchen floor in a long time, & I can't remember whether there's a
trap in there.

I plan to change it so two waste pipes both go vertically down through
the floor and meet underneath, then run to & through the outside wall
(using solvent-weld). Do I need separate traps for each pipe? Should
I leave a trapdoor under one of the appliance positions in case I need
to unblock them later?

You don't absolutely need two separate traps, although I would be
inclined to fit them, and keep them both above the floor where they can
be dismantled and cleaned. If you join both your downpipes to the exit
pipe with swept tee fittings, then you can stick a rodding eye into the
other side of the end tee. That should cover most options.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 2013-08-29, Tim Watts wrote:

On Thursday 29 August 2013 15:02 Adam Funk wrote in uk.d-i-y:

and one bottom bend to enbale access for unblocking.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean but I think it's something like this
(where XXXs are threaded caps)? If so, I like it.


in
| |
| | |XXX|
| | | |
| | | -----
| | | out
| | | -----
| | | |
| | | |
| ----- |
| |
| --------|
| |
|XXX|


Yes - pretty much.

I like the design. From looking at Wickes &c., it seems that the Ts &
end caps are cheaper than ready-made traps (& it's hard to find traps
for solvent-weld installation).


Mine is under the stairs behind the machines so very
accessible

Lucky you.

On 2013-08-29, Java Jive wrote:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 12:15:18 +0100, Adam Funk
wrote:

No particular comment to make about the feeds.

The two waste pipes currently meet at a T above the kitchen floor; the
merged pipe goes under the floor then runs under the kitchen and
through the wall, where it opens over a drain. I haven't been under
the kitchen floor in a long time, & I can't remember whether there's a
trap in there.

There are at least two primary purposes to a trap ...
1) To keep out drain smells
2) To trap objects that may cause a blockage
... but a third is to prevent waste from one source adversely
affecting the others.

I would say that you need a trap for each individual item whether it
be sink/basin, or one or other machine.

I think I'll go for that, although #2 isn't relevant he the
existing pipe runs out the wall and opens over a grate outside that
goes to a 4" pipe.

On 2013-08-29, John Rumm wrote:

On 29/08/2013 12:15, Adam Funk wrote:

We have a cold-feed-only washing machine in place & a cold-feed-only
dishwasher on order. There are 2 cold connections & 1 hot one; the
hot one has never leaked yet, but I'm a little nervous. Is there a

I have not seen one start leaking without provocation. ;-)

The provocation I'm concerned about is that an appliance might bump
into the red plastic lever. It hasn't happened yet, I have to admit,
but I figure I should prevent it while I'm tidying up back there.


What do I need to do (apart from turning the gas off) to make it safe
to solder a joint on a copper water pipe a few cm away from a gas
pipe? Or should I just use a compression fitting?

Stick a couple of layers (i.e. folded) heat mat in the way to protect
the gas pipe.

I've looked at the situation again, & the cold pipe (which may need
some soldering) is above the hot pipe (which doesn't need
soldering), which is in turn above the gas pipe.


I plan to change it so two waste pipes both go vertically down through
the floor and meet underneath, then run to & through the outside wall
(using solvent-weld). Do I need separate traps for each pipe? Should
I leave a trapdoor under one of the appliance positions in case I need
to unblock them later?

You don't absolutely need two separate traps, although I would be
inclined to fit them, and keep them both above the floor where they can
be dismantled and cleaned. If you join both your downpipes to the exit
pipe with swept tee fittings, then you can stick a rodding eye into the
other side of the end tee. That should cover most options.

Thanks for the tips. I don't have room to build the traps above the
floor, because of the tight space & difficulty I have in stuffing the
appliances back into the space. (I had to swap the positions of the
washer-dryer & dishwasher last summer when we replaced the
washer-dryer, because the new one was 600 mm from front to the
*middle* & the top of the back, whereas the previous one had been
proud near the top of the back only.)

Thanks for all the advice. I ended up with a fairly nice job, & the
appliances fit better under the worktop. I didn't have to do any
soldering in situ --- I just undid a compression fitting, modified the
pipework downstream of it on a workbench, & screwed it back on.

As it turns out, the old "trap" consisted of an elbow under the floor
with the horizontal-ish pipe bent upwards from the elbow to the hole
in the wall. There are now 2 traps inspired by Tim's suggestion but
simplified (1 T & 1 unscrewable end cap, "X" below) to fit in the
spaces available. (Each "in" pipe is right against the wall, & the
out pipes are just under the joists.)


in
| |
| |
| |
| | ----------------
| | | out
| | | ------------
| | | |
| | | |
| ----- ----
| X
----------------