Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my own
flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch of
new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless that is,
there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a key
(Or worse, given one to their friends).

How is this good security?

tim

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:16:25 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my own
flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch of
new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless that is,
there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a key
(Or worse, given one to their friends).

There are systems which allow the front door to be opened by a multiplicity of different keys, but they can be complicated. The locksmith who fitted the locks in the first place may be able to produce a new pinning for the cylinder which still opens the front door - though often these things are ordered as a complete suite of locks requiring you to go back to the manufacturer armed with permissions signed by anyone who might have an interest and then pay an arm and a leg...
I think I'd just give up on the convenience of having the same key for both doors unless it's something that's ruled out by the tenancy agreement.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:16:25 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my own
flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch of
new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless that
is,
there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a key
(Or worse, given one to their friends).

There are systems which allow the front door to be opened by a
multiplicity of different keys, but they can be complicated. The locksmith
who fitted the locks in the first place may be able to produce a new
pinning for the cylinder which still opens the front door - though often
these things are ordered as a complete suite of locks requiring you to go
back to the manufacturer armed with permissions signed by anyone who might
have an interest and then pay an arm and a leg...
I think I'd just give up on the convenience of having the same key for
both doors unless it's something that's ruled out by the tenancy
agreement.

I own it on a long lease. I think that I can tell the freeholder where to
go if he tries to make up rules about my door locks where the change affects
no-one else.

Though you are right about the restrictions where it does.

tim

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 6:38:38 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:16:25 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:

Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my own
flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch of
new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless that
is,
there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a key
(Or worse, given one to their friends).

There are systems which allow the front door to be opened by a
multiplicity of different keys, but they can be complicated. The locksmith
who fitted the locks in the first place may be able to produce a new
pinning for the cylinder which still opens the front door - though often
these things are ordered as a complete suite of locks requiring you to go
back to the manufacturer armed with permissions signed by anyone who might
have an interest and then pay an arm and a leg...
I think I'd just give up on the convenience of having the same key for
both doors unless it's something that's ruled out by the tenancy
agreement.

I own it on a long lease. I think that I can tell the freeholder where to
go if he tries to make up rules about my door locks where the change affects
no-one else.

Though you are right about the restrictions where it does.

Ah, right - I was misled by the reference to previous tenants. If you meant that the previous owner had been renting the flat out that just gives one more possibility for someone to have retained a key, and I'd certainly want to change the lock or the cylinder.
Some of the higher security systems require you to have a card with a code that is used to cut the key - you can't cut the key just from another key. This does make it easier to control duplication, but since you didn't mention a card I'm assuming that isn't the case here. In any case it still doesn't necessarily solve the problem of former owners or tenants retaining a legitimately acquired key.

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 6:38:38 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:16:25 PM UTC+1, tim..... wrote:

Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own
flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of
new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless that
is,
there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a
key
(Or worse, given one to their friends).

There are systems which allow the front door to be opened by a
multiplicity of different keys, but they can be complicated. The
locksmith
who fitted the locks in the first place may be able to produce a new
pinning for the cylinder which still opens the front door - though
often
these things are ordered as a complete suite of locks requiring you to
go
back to the manufacturer armed with permissions signed by anyone who
might
have an interest and then pay an arm and a leg...
I think I'd just give up on the convenience of having the same key for
both doors unless it's something that's ruled out by the tenancy
agreement.

I own it on a long lease. I think that I can tell the freeholder where
to
go if he tries to make up rules about my door locks where the change
affects
no-one else.

Though you are right about the restrictions where it does.

Ah, right - I was misled by the reference to previous tenants. If you
meant that the previous owner had been renting the flat out that just
gives one more possibility for someone to have retained a key, and I'd
certainly want to change the lock or the cylinder.
Some of the higher security systems require you to have a card with a code
that is used to cut the key - you can't cut the key just from another key.
This does make it easier to control duplication, but since you didn't
mention a card I'm assuming that isn't the case here. In any case it still
doesn't necessarily solve the problem of former owners or tenants
retaining a legitimately acquired key.

Since starting this I have checked with the company who are authorised to
make copies and their website tells me that they require a letter of
authorisation to prove that I am entitled to ask for a copy.

It doesn't say how I find out who is the authorised person that provides the
letter (nor how they keep their records up-to-date when that person
changes - which in this case of this property it almost certainly has, not
necessarily to someone who knows that they have this responsibility)

On 01/08/2013 14:14, tim..... wrote:
....
Since starting this I have checked with the company who are authorised
to make copies and their website tells me that they require a letter of
authorisation to prove that I am entitled to ask for a copy.

It doesn't say how I find out who is the authorised person that provides
the letter (nor how they keep their records up-to-date when that person
changes - which in this case of this property it almost certainly has,
not necessarily to someone who knows that they have this responsibility)

It will almost certainly be whoever is responsible for the common areas.

Colin Bignell

On 31/07/2013 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying)...

More accurately, you won't be able to open both with the same key. You
could always have two keys, one for each door.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2013 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying)...

More accurately, you won't be able to open both with the same key. You
could always have two keys, one for each door.

Well obviously.

But I'm not going to spend the stupid amount that they want for (a
replacement of) this lock and lose the convenience

If I have to have two key's, I will just drill a hole in the door and fit a
second "B&Q" lock.

tim

On 31/07/2013 18:34, tim..... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2013 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying)...

More accurately, you won't be able to open both with the same key. You
could always have two keys, one for each door.

Well obviously.

But I'm not going to spend the stupid amount that they want for (a
replacement of) this lock and lose the convenience

Do you have the authority to have new keys cut for your front door? If
not then neither would the previous tenant and you should be able to
find out from the landlord just how many keys have been authorised for
your lock. If that matches the number you have, you don't have a problem.

Colin Bignell

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2013 18:34, tim..... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2013 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying)...

More accurately, you won't be able to open both with the same key. You
could always have two keys, one for each door.

Well obviously.

But I'm not going to spend the stupid amount that they want for (a
replacement of) this lock and lose the convenience

Do you have the authority to have new keys cut for your front door?

I don't see why not. I'm a long leaseholder (of a two bed flat) I can't see
how the freeholder can reasonably restrict me to only two keys. If I was a
LL (letting to two people) I'd need a third.

If not then neither would the previous tenant and you should be able to
find out from the landlord just how many keys have been authorised for
your lock.

Hm,

The MA has recently changed. They couldn't even come up with the proof from
the old MA that the previous leaseholder paid all that was owing. (I've had
to take a risk on that).

I have no faith that if I asked: "How many keys did the previous leaseholder
have authorised?" that I would get a sensible answer.

If that matches the number you have, you don't have a problem.

I agree. I just don't see that I can get there. (Though I admit that I
didn't even consider this option when I posted, so I suppose this would be
the "normal" solution even if it doesn't work for me now)

On 31/07/2013 18:53, Nightjar wrote:
On 31/07/2013 18:34, tim..... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2013 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying)...

More accurately, you won't be able to open both with the same key. You
could always have two keys, one for each door.

Well obviously.

But I'm not going to spend the stupid amount that they want for (a
replacement of) this lock and lose the convenience

Do you have the authority to have new keys cut for your front door? If
not then neither would the previous tenant and you should be able to
find out from the landlord just how many keys have been authorised for
your lock. If that matches the number you have, you don't have a problem.

Colin Bignell


They might well be security keys. If they have a 'very' long number
stamped on them, only the locksmith who supplied the locks can cut keys,
only with the written authority of the owner.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article , The Medway Handyman
wrote:
On 31/07/2013 18:53, Nightjar wrote:
On 31/07/2013 18:34, tim..... wrote:

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 31/07/2013 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and
my own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a
batch of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door
(unless that is, there's only one common door keying)...

More accurately, you won't be able to open both with the same key.
You could always have two keys, one for each door.

Well obviously.

But I'm not going to spend the stupid amount that they want for (a
replacement of) this lock and lose the convenience

Do you have the authority to have new keys cut for your front door? If
not then neither would the previous tenant and you should be able to
find out from the landlord just how many keys have been authorised for
your lock. If that matches the number you have, you don't have a
problem.

Colin Bignell


They might well be security keys. If they have a 'very' long number
stamped on them, only the locksmith who supplied the locks can cut keys,
only with the written authority of the owner.

I understood that it was ruled an infringement of free trade to make that
condition. Certainly I have had no difficulty in obtaining duplicates of
apparently "secure keys" from a repautable locksmith.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 31/07/2013 18:53, Nightjar wrote:
On 31/07/2013 18:34, tim..... wrote:
But I'm not going to spend the stupid amount that they want for (a
replacement of) this lock and lose the convenience

Do you have the authority to have new keys cut for your front door? If
not then neither would the previous tenant and you should be able to
find out from the landlord just how many keys have been authorised for
your lock. If that matches the number you have, you don't have a problem.

Colin Bignell


They might well be security keys. If they have a 'very' long number
stamped on them, only the locksmith who supplied the locks can cut keys,
only with the written authority of the owner.

And for really secure locks, the makers will not release the blanks at
all, and you need to order the key from them by number, in writing, with
the appropriate paperwork.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Wednesday 31 July 2013 17:16 tim..... wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.


Nothing is unpickable. If a key exists, a copy can be made. The only factor
is how time consuming it is.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my own
flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch of
new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless that is,
there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a key
(Or worse, given one to their friends).

How is this good security?

It's not. Change your front door lock if in doubt. It's easy to DIY one way
or another.


tim
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 31/07/13 17:16, tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying).

Get a new key & cylinder for your front door and keep the old key for
the communal door.



So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a
key (Or worse, given one to their friends).



--
djc

tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.




they are not usually unpickable,they often have a registered slot
pattern which most locksmiths will not copy without authorisation.

In fact often mastered systems are easier to pick because they have
multiple pins per slot which allow differing keys to line them up, which
allows the picker more choices.

However, I have one key which own both the communal front door and my
own flat's door.

I guessing that means that I can't change the cylinder and get a batch
of new keys as they then wont be able to open the front door (unless
that is, there's only one common door keying).

So I'm stuck with having to hope that previous tenants haven't kept a
key (Or worse, given one to their friends).

How is this good security?

tim

"F Murtz" wrote in message
...
tim..... wrote:
Just moved into my new flat.

It has DPS "High Security" locks which are (presumably) un-pickable.




they are not usually unpickable,they often have a registered slot pattern
which most locksmiths will not copy without authorisation.

In fact often mastered systems are easier to pick because they have
multiple pins per slot which allow differing keys to line them up, which
allows the picker more choices.

So what's the patentable element then?

The provision of "security" by restricting of copying because of the patent
seem to be a circular argument that doesn't justify the patent ;-(