Broadback wrote:
I need someone to refurbish my patio and paths, I've become too old for
all the bending. How on earth does one find a reliable tradesman? I know
no one who has had similar work done, so recommendations are out. I
picked 4 out of the telephone book/internet. One came, gave an estimate,
well and good, but I would like to be able to make a comparison. I have
had no reply from 2, another said he would visit last night to give a
quote, you've guessed it he has not turned up. Why do tradesmen do this,
if they don't want the job why not just day so!

We will not visit the customer's premises to give a free quote, unless
we are certain they are not just getting a series of prices.
We are never the cheapest because we do the job properly using good
quality gear and there are lots of cowboys who just quote what they
think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.
If someone wants a free quote for a domestic job we always tell them
they can have one, but if it involves a site visit they'll have to pay
£50 + VAT which we will deduct from the bill when they have the job
done. That separates the sheep from the goats very effectively.
We sometimes get cheeky *******s wanting us to drive a considerable
distance then plod around their flats complex (or whatever), check
reception on the roof, write them a nice specification for a new TV
system, and charge nowt.
I've even had my system plans re-issued for competitive tender, with my
copyright details tippexed out.

Bill

On 14/07/2013 03:43, Bill Wright wrote:
....
If someone wants a free quote for a domestic job we always tell them
they can have one, but if it involves a site visit they'll have to pay
£50 + VAT which we will deduct from the bill when they have the job
done. That separates the sheep from the goats very effectively.
.....

Indeed. When I was having my garden remodelled, with associated building
work, one of the companies that I asked to quote lost the chance of what
turned out to be a £12k contract when they tried something like that
with me.

Colin Bignell

Nightjar wrote:
On 14/07/2013 03:43, Bill Wright wrote:
....
If someone wants a free quote for a domestic job we always tell them
they can have one, but if it involves a site visit they'll have to pay
£50 + VAT which we will deduct from the bill when they have the job
done. That separates the sheep from the goats very effectively.
....

Indeed. When I was having my garden remodelled, with associated building
work, one of the companies that I asked to quote lost the chance of what
turned out to be a £12k contract when they tried something like that
with me.

Good firms don't need to take the chance that they are having their time
wasted. There are too many freeloaders about.

The thing about our job is that a lot of jobs are very small: less that
£500. It just isn't economical to spend time and money giving free quotes.

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us to
visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

On Monday 15 July 2013 01:30 Bill Wright wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Nightjar wrote:
On 14/07/2013 03:43, Bill Wright wrote:
....
If someone wants a free quote for a domestic job we always tell them
they can have one, but if it involves a site visit they'll have to pay
£50 + VAT which we will deduct from the bill when they have the job
done. That separates the sheep from the goats very effectively.
....

Indeed. When I was having my garden remodelled, with associated building
work, one of the companies that I asked to quote lost the chance of what
turned out to be a £12k contract when they tried something like that
with me.

Good firms don't need to take the chance that they are having their time
wasted. There are too many freeloaders about.

The thing about our job is that a lot of jobs are very small: less that
£500. It just isn't economical to spend time and money giving free quotes.

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us to
visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on similar
jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 15/07/2013 01:30, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
On 14/07/2013 03:43, Bill Wright wrote:
....
If someone wants a free quote for a domestic job we always tell them
they can have one, but if it involves a site visit they'll have to pay
£50 + VAT which we will deduct from the bill when they have the job
done. That separates the sheep from the goats very effectively.
....

Indeed. When I was having my garden remodelled, with associated
building work, one of the companies that I asked to quote lost the
chance of what turned out to be a £12k contract when they tried
something like that with me.

Good firms don't need to take the chance that they are having their time
wasted. There are too many freeloaders about.

If they are good, they should have the experience to tell the difference
between the serious customers and the time wasters. In the case of the
garden remodelling, I supplied a garden designer's drawing and a ten
page specification.

The thing about our job is that a lot of jobs are very small: less that
£500. It just isn't economical to spend time and money giving free quotes.

Your charging policy would increase the cost of the job by at least 20%
if everybody did it and the customers got three quotes. I wonder how
much genuine business it loses you.

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us to
visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

When I worked for an electricity board, that sort of job had a fixed
price that we could give over the phone. Very rarely, the job proved to
be more complex than we expected and didn't make any money, but,
equally, some were very simple and quick. The fixed price was set to
allow for those variations in the long term.

Colin Bignell

On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 03:43:03 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Broadback wrote:
I need someone to refurbish my patio and paths, I've become too old for
all the bending. How on earth does one find a reliable tradesman? I know
no one who has had similar work done, so recommendations are out. I
picked 4 out of the telephone book/internet. One came, gave an estimate,
well and good, but I would like to be able to make a comparison. I have
had no reply from 2, another said he would visit last night to give a
quote, you've guessed it he has not turned up. Why do tradesmen do this,
if they don't want the job why not just day so!

We will not visit the customer's premises to give a free quote, unless
we are certain they are not just getting a series of prices.
We are never the cheapest because we do the job properly using good
quality gear and there are lots of cowboys who just quote what they
think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.

But how does the potential customer tell (that you will do the job
properly)? It is a risk for you, yes - but it's a risk for the
customer too.

If someone wants a free quote for a domestic job we always tell them
they can have one, but if it involves a site visit they'll have to pay
£50 + VAT which we will deduct from the bill when they have the job
done. That separates the sheep from the goats very effectively.
We sometimes get cheeky *******s wanting us to drive a considerable
distance then plod around their flats complex (or whatever), check
reception on the roof, write them a nice specification for a new TV
system, and charge nowt.
I've even had my system plans re-issued for competitive tender, with my
copyright details tippexed out.

That's common practice. We don't like it but it's a price we have to
pay for doing business.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us to
visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on similar
jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they give
enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone. I'm on about
those who 'insist' we go out to them, name a figure, then go away and
wait hopefully by the phone.

I actually suspect some of these people have empty lives and just like
having people call round. There's also those who like to show off to
their spouse how shrewd they are.

A while back I went out on the basis that the job was booked, only to
find the young man firstly attempting to pick my brains then attempting
to beat me down on price. "How much do you pay for TV cable then? I bet
you get it really cheap..." All this of course with his simpering bride
looking on. I went out to the van to 'fetch something' and was never
seen again.

Bill

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:38:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us to
visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on similar
jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they give
enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone. I'm on about
those who 'insist' we go out to them, name a figure, then go away and
wait hopefully by the phone.

I actually suspect some of these people have empty lives and just like
having people call round. There's also those who like to show off to
their spouse how shrewd they are.

No wonder it's so difficult to find tradesmen if they have this
attitude.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:

We will not visit the customer's premises to give a free quote, unless
we are certain they are not just getting a series of prices.
We are never the cheapest because we do the job properly using good
quality gear and there are lots of cowboys who just quote what they
think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.

But how does the potential customer tell (that you will do the job
properly)? It is a risk for you, yes - but it's a risk for the
customer too.
Having someone call out to talk a load of bull**** does not guarantee
that the job will be done properly.
Someone has to pay for all this running about issuing 'free' quotes and
it has to be the customers.


I've even had my system plans re-issued for competitive tender, with my
copyright details tippexed out.

That's common practice. We don't like it but it's a price we have to
pay for doing business.
It might be common practice, but so is shop lifting. Anyone who steals
my intellectual property is taking a serious risk.

Bill

On 15/07/2013 13:46, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

Good firms don't need to take the chance that they are having their time
wasted. There are too many freeloaders about.

If they are good, they should have the experience to tell the
difference between the serious customers and the time wasters.

To a certain extent you can do that, by which time you've probably
wasted an hour.

You should be able to filter out most very quickly on the phone.

In the case of the
garden remodelling, I supplied a garden designer's drawing and a ten
page specification.

All that shows is that you intend to have the job done, or do it
yourself. It doesn't reassure the tradesman at all that he will get the
work.

Getting the work is part of the skill of giving quotes, not a god-given
right just because you quote. Not getting it is part of the normal risks
of running a business.

The thing about our job is that a lot of jobs are very small: less that
£500. It just isn't economical to spend time and money giving free
quotes.

Your charging policy would increase the cost of the job by at least
20% if everybody did it and the customers got three quotes. I wonder
how much genuine business it loses you.

Very little it appears, and the saving in time and overheads is
enormous. If it loses one genuine job and saves four time-wasters it is
well worth while, and I'm sure it does better than that....

How do you measure that? I wouldn't even come to you if I knew you
charged for quotes, so you would not know you had lost my business.

Your approach may work if you get more work than you can handle, but I
consider it a poor business model.

Colin Bignell

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:52:05 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Mark wrote:

We will not visit the customer's premises to give a free quote, unless
we are certain they are not just getting a series of prices.
We are never the cheapest because we do the job properly using good
quality gear and there are lots of cowboys who just quote what they
think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.

But how does the potential customer tell (that you will do the job
properly)? It is a risk for you, yes - but it's a risk for the
customer too.
Having someone call out to talk a load of bull**** does not guarantee
that the job will be done properly.
Someone has to pay for all this running about issuing 'free' quotes and
it has to be the customers.

Agreed. However without giving out free estimates/quotes I am
surprised you can get any work. And none of this helps the OP except
to confirm it is virtually impossible to get a tradesmen.

I've even had my system plans re-issued for competitive tender, with my
copyright details tippexed out.

That's common practice. We don't like it but it's a price we have to
pay for doing business.

It might be common practice, but so is shop lifting. Anyone who steals
my intellectual property is taking a serious risk.

So sue them.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Nightjar wrote:

If they are good, they should have the experience to tell the
difference between the serious customers and the time wasters.

To a certain extent you can do that, by which time you've probably
wasted an hour.

You should be able to filter out most very quickly on the phone.
Some of them are very cunning.


Getting the work is part of the skill of giving quotes, not a god-given
right just because you quote. Not getting it is part of the normal risks
of running a business.
And like all risks has to be minimised. So we don't waste our time on
time wasters.


I wouldn't even come to you if I knew you
charged for quotes,
That's the attitude we try to filter out.


Your approach may work if you get more work than you can handle, but I
consider it a poor business model.
It's kept me well off for a lifetime, so it can't be that bad.

Bill

Mark wrote:

Agreed. However without giving out free estimates/quotes I am
surprised you can get any work.

As I said I'll quote on the phone for a domestic job, and stick to it.
But site visits are chargeable. Don't you worry, them that mean to have
it done don't mind paying a bit up front. Remember, a lot of our bigger
jobs don't start off needing a quote, they start off with the customer
needing us to spend time discussing the options, and also probably
walking around the building planning the locations of equipment, etc. I
can that as consultancy, not quote giving.


So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

Bill

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 15:17:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Mark wrote:

Agreed. However without giving out free estimates/quotes I am
surprised you can get any work.

As I said I'll quote on the phone for a domestic job, and stick to it.

I wouldn't ask anyone to do this. Many people can't describe the job
well enough and there may be difficult access to make the job harder.
You could always quote high to cover this but you may price yourself
out of the job.

But site visits are chargeable. Don't you worry, them that mean to have
it done don't mind paying a bit up front.

I doubt anyone would be willing to pay up front unless they were 100%
sure they would use you. Otherwise they could be throwing money away.
Do you not have any competition?

I wouldn't be happy paying up front to a company where I had never met
anyone of their employees. And I would never ask for a quote if I
wasn't serious. What would anyone do this - it wastes everyone's
time.

Remember, a lot of our bigger
jobs don't start off needing a quote, they start off with the customer
needing us to spend time discussing the options, and also probably
walking around the building planning the locations of equipment, etc. I
can that as consultancy, not quote giving.

fairy nuff. But if the customer does actually know what they want and
does not need any 'consultancy'?


So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On 15/07/2013 15:12, Bill Wright wrote:
Nightjar wrote:
....
Getting the work is part of the skill of giving quotes, not a
god-given right just because you quote. Not getting it is part of the
normal risks of running a business.

And like all risks has to be minimised. So we don't waste our time on
time wasters....

The way to minimise the risk is to get your quoting right. I have been
involved in quotes that required a team of people to spend a week or
more working on them and nobody ever dreamed of charging to quote.

Colin Bignell

Bill Wright wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us
to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone.

An address and google streetwiew?

--
Adam

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:38:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting
us to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone. I'm
on about those who 'insist' we go out to them, name a figure, then
go away and wait hopefully by the phone.

I actually suspect some of these people have empty lives and just
like having people call round. There's also those who like to show
off to their spouse how shrewd they are.

No wonder it's so difficult to find tradesmen if they have this
attitude.

We have two people employed full time working out quotes. Their wages are
for paid by the jobs we "win".


--
Adam

ARW wrote:

An address and google streetwiew?


It has been known for us to use Streetview, yes. Always interesting when
the location is city centre and the customers says you can park 'nearby'.

Bill

Nightjar wrote:

And like all risks has to be minimised. So we don't waste our time on
time wasters....

The way to minimise the risk is to get your quoting right. I have been
involved in quotes that required a team of people to spend a week or
more working on them and nobody ever dreamed of charging to quote.
And was this for a £100 TV aerial?

Bill

Mark wrote:

As I said I'll quote on the phone for a domestic job, and stick to it.

I wouldn't ask anyone to do this. Many people can't describe the job
well enough and there may be difficult access to make the job harder.
You could always quote high to cover this but you may price yourself
out of the job.
"What's the address?"
(customer gives address)
"Oh yes, I know it. Are you in one of the bungalows or one of the
detached houses further up?"
"We're in a bungalow."
"Yes, well there are no particular problems with TV reception in that
area so it should straightforward."

But site visits are chargeable. Don't you worry, them that mean to have
it done don't mind paying a bit up front.

I doubt anyone would be willing to pay up front unless they were 100%
sure they would use you. Otherwise they could be throwing money away.
Do you not have any competition?
Not much, because the quality of our work is high, and most work is by
word of mouth.


I wouldn't be happy paying up front to a company where I had never met
anyone of their employees. And I would never ask for a quote if I
wasn't serious. What would anyone do this - it wastes everyone's
time.
I don't know why, but they do. Sometimes they're wondering if they can
afford it.

fairy nuff. But if the customer does actually know what they want and
does not need any 'consultancy'?
I'd judge each one on its merits.


So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
...
Nightjar wrote:

If they are good, they should have the experience to tell the
difference between the serious customers and the time wasters.

To a certain extent you can do that, by which time you've probably
wasted an hour.

You should be able to filter out most very quickly on the phone.
Some of them are very cunning.


Getting the work is part of the skill of giving quotes, not a god-given
right just because you quote. Not getting it is part of the normal risks
of running a business.
And like all risks has to be minimised. So we don't waste our time on time
wasters.

how is someone who doesn't use your services because they are too expensive,
a time waster?

tim

"ARW" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting us
to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone.

An address and google streetwiew?

I can see how that works for Bill, but how can *you* tell how good a house's
wiring is this way?

tim

tim..... wrote:
"ARW" wrote in message
...
Bill Wright wrote:
Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting
us to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone.

An address and google streetwiew?

I can see how that works for Bill, but how can *you* tell how good a
house's wiring is this way?

It tells me nothing about the wiring:-). It does however give me a good idea
of what route I would use to lay a new cable for say a new shower. I will,
in most cases, have worked in an "identical" house.

--
Adam

On Monday, July 15, 2013 10:08:44 AM UTC+1, Mark wrote:
Snip

think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.

implying??

Jim K

tim..... wrote:


how is someone who doesn't use your services because they are too
expensive, a time waster?

tim
Good grief! Because they waste my time, obviously. I don't care why
they waste my time, I just care that they do.

Bill

Jim K wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2013 10:08:44 AM UTC+1, Mark wrote:
Snip
think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.

implying??

Jim K
Unless they are in a trade where materials cost almost nothing it
implies that they might be on the fiddle, or might be part-timers.

Bill

On 15/07/2013 20:22, Jim K wrote:
On Monday, July 15, 2013 10:08:44 AM UTC+1, Mark wrote:
Snip

think the customer will stand then do a **** job. Also, a lot of them
aren't VAT registered.
implying??

Either they have a very small turnover, or they are dishonest.

In the former case, someone working occasionally as a hobby, fine. In
the latter - will they still be there if you have a problem?

Andy

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:18:34 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Mark wrote:

As I said I'll quote on the phone for a domestic job, and stick to it.

I wouldn't ask anyone to do this. Many people can't describe the job
well enough and there may be difficult access to make the job harder.
You could always quote high to cover this but you may price yourself
out of the job.
"What's the address?"
(customer gives address)
"Oh yes, I know it. Are you in one of the bungalows or one of the
detached houses further up?"
"We're in a bungalow."
"Yes, well there are no particular problems with TV reception in that
area so it should straightforward."

But I'm sure there are other factors.

But site visits are chargeable. Don't you worry, them that mean to have
it done don't mind paying a bit up front.

I doubt anyone would be willing to pay up front unless they were 100%
sure they would use you. Otherwise they could be throwing money away.
Do you not have any competition?
Not much, because the quality of our work is high, and most work is by
word of mouth.

Word of mouth isn't always 100% reliable. I'd want more particularly
on a large job. Some friends of my better half recommeded a builder
once. When we went to look at his work it was awful. Someone also
recommended a decorator who let us down at the last moment too.


I wouldn't be happy paying up front to a company where I had never met
anyone of their employees. And I would never ask for a quote if I
wasn't serious. What would anyone do this - it wastes everyone's
time.
I don't know why, but they do. Sometimes they're wondering if they can
afford it.

The latter is quite reasonable. You want to be paid, don't you?

fairy nuff. But if the customer does actually know what they want and
does not need any 'consultancy'?
I'd judge each one on its merits.

So you don't always charge up front?


So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Ah. You're making it up.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:50:34 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:38:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting
us to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone. I'm
on about those who 'insist' we go out to them, name a figure, then
go away and wait hopefully by the phone.

I actually suspect some of these people have empty lives and just
like having people call round. There's also those who like to show
off to their spouse how shrewd they are.

No wonder it's so difficult to find tradesmen if they have this
attitude.

We have two people employed full time working out quotes. Their wages are
for paid by the jobs we "win".

That's a good way of working. A business like this is more likely to
get work from me.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:50:34 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:38:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting
us to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a
bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone.
I'm on about those who 'insist' we go out to them, name a figure,
then go away and wait hopefully by the phone.

I actually suspect some of these people have empty lives and just
like having people call round. There's also those who like to show
off to their spouse how shrewd they are.

No wonder it's so difficult to find tradesmen if they have this
attitude.

We have two people employed full time working out quotes. Their
wages are for paid by the jobs we "win".

That's a good way of working. A business like this is more likely to
get work from me.

Do you have a hospital, school or factory that needs a rewi-)?. That's
mostly what they quote for.


Most of the general public that call for the smaller jobs live in the
Doncaster area and so it easy to get someone working nearby to call in and
give a quote. And most smaller jobs can be done there and then if the
customer agrees to the price - you just juggle the booked in jobs around
(you have to remember that the booked in jobs are usually for builders and
not the public in this case)

--
Adam

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 18:05:10 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:50:34 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 13:38:32 +0100, Bill Wright
wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

I mean, I know it's stupid, but we really do have people wanting
us to visit them to give a price for running a cable to a
bedroom.

Bill

Presumably you are able to give them a likely price range based on
similar jobs? Sometimes, people have no idea what a job will cost.

Oh yes of course, we can give them a rough figure. In fact if they
give enough detail we can give them a firm price over the phone.
I'm on about those who 'insist' we go out to them, name a figure,
then go away and wait hopefully by the phone.

I actually suspect some of these people have empty lives and just
like having people call round. There's also those who like to show
off to their spouse how shrewd they are.

No wonder it's so difficult to find tradesmen if they have this
attitude.

We have two people employed full time working out quotes. Their
wages are for paid by the jobs we "win".

That's a good way of working. A business like this is more likely to
get work from me.

Do you have a hospital, school or factory that needs a rewi-)?. That's
mostly what they quote for.

Not at the moment ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:18:34 +0100, Bill Wright

So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Ah. You're making it up.

Actually, there is more than one way to kill a monkey. The fact that bill
has refused to tell you his tactics does not mean that he is making it up.
If he does what I do then there is a good reason why he will not tell you.


--
Adam

On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:52:37 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:18:34 +0100, Bill Wright

So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Ah. You're making it up.

Actually, there is more than one way to kill a monkey. The fact that bill
has refused to tell you his tactics does not mean that he is making it up.
If he does what I do then there is a good reason why he will not tell you.

Because it's illegal.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:52:37 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:18:34 +0100, Bill Wright

So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Ah. You're making it up.

Actually, there is more than one way to kill a monkey. The fact that
bill has refused to tell you his tactics does not mean that he is
making it up. If he does what I do then there is a good reason why
he will not tell you.

Because it's illegal.

I have no idea if what Bill does is illegal, I am sure what I do is legal
[1] if I am thinking of the same thing that Bill is thinking.

[1] There are always the illegal options. I doubt Bill does that but it
would not bother me if he did.


--
Adam

Can't tell you that.
Ah. You're making it up.
Cheeky *******! You're naive about business aren't you?

Actually, there is more than one way to kill a monkey.
Or as my grandad always said, 'There's more ways to kill a cat than
choking it with lard.'

The fact that
bill has refused to tell you his tactics does not mean that he is
making it up. If he does what I do then there is a good reason why
he will not tell you.
Because it's illegal.

I have no idea if what Bill does is illegal, I am sure what I do is legal
[1] if I am thinking of the same thing that Bill is thinking.

[1] There are always the illegal options. I doubt Bill does that but it
would not bother me if he did.
As it happens I have dealt with copyright theft very successfully
(profitably) without breaking even the most insignificant of laws, and
without involving any lawyers. But it's my secret how I've done it, and
I have several very good reasons for keeping it that way.
I'm not claiming that what I do is unique; in fact I would think the
same idea has occurred to many others. But it's not a thing to shout about.

Bill

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 18:03:58 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:52:37 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:18:34 +0100, Bill Wright

So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Ah. You're making it up.

Actually, there is more than one way to kill a monkey. The fact that
bill has refused to tell you his tactics does not mean that he is
making it up. If he does what I do then there is a good reason why
he will not tell you.

Because it's illegal.

I have no idea if what Bill does is illegal, I am sure what I do is legal
[1] if I am thinking of the same thing that Bill is thinking.

[1] There are always the illegal options. I doubt Bill does that but it
would not bother me if he did.

Obviously no-one can force you to reveal this information. Is the
reason for withholding it also secret? ;-)

I was wondering because we sometimes have the same problem and we
haven't found a perfect solution yet.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
(")_(") is he still wrong?

Mark wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 18:03:58 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 18:52:37 +0100, "ARW"
wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 19:18:34 +0100, Bill Wright

So sue them.
Not normally. There are other, cleverer ways.

What?
Can't tell you that.

Ah. You're making it up.

Actually, there is more than one way to kill a monkey. The fact
that bill has refused to tell you his tactics does not mean that
he is making it up. If he does what I do then there is a good
reason why he will not tell you.

Because it's illegal.

I have no idea if what Bill does is illegal, I am sure what I do is
legal [1] if I am thinking of the same thing that Bill is thinking.

[1] There are always the illegal options. I doubt Bill does that but
it would not bother me if he did.

Obviously no-one can force you to reveal this information. Is the
reason for withholding it also secret? ;-)

I was wondering because we sometimes have the same problem and we
haven't found a perfect solution yet.

Bill and I might use different methods. I am not in a position to ask Bill
what he does (other than fit well installed aerials and all the other stuff
invloved in doing that).

Bill knows that I use his local competitor for my aerial installs.

I am not going to say what I do, and I am sure Bill will say the samething.

I am sure that Bill will agree that there is no perfect solution.

You win some, you lose some and sometimes you get even.



--
Adam