Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.


You have convinced me that I shall always photograph the tool at start
and end of any hire. (With something like a TV broadcast in the background!)

If it proves to be as you suggest, then it is out and out fraud,
attempting to obtain money by deception or whatever.

--
Rod

On 25/06/2013 21:25, polygonum wrote:
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.


You have convinced me that I shall always photograph the tool at start
and end of any hire. (With something like a TV broadcast in the
background!)

If it proves to be as you suggest, then it is out and out fraud,
attempting to obtain money by deception or whatever.


Yes, and a photo of the "serial number" plate too in case they were less
cooperative.

Well done, and thanks for the post.

Was this a "big name" hire place or just someone local? If the former, I
definitely think you should have the courage to "name and shame" for the
benefit of the rest of us. Probably one for trading standards too: who
knows how many people they have successfully intimidated.

On Tuesday 25 June 2013 21:25 polygonum wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.


You have convinced me that I shall always photograph the tool at start
and end of any hire. (With something like a TV broadcast in the
background!)

If it proves to be as you suggest, then it is out and out fraud,
attempting to obtain money by deception or whatever.


I'd recommend the OP ring Trading Standards at (probably) his country
council. They may or may not be able to help but should this shop's name
have come up before, then it might be useful. For the price of a phone
call...

I think the OP is doing the right things so far.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

Colin Stamp wrote:

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair.
That's their look-out. It's basic to their trade that tools are checked
when returned. The thing stinks.

Bill

Colin Stamp wrote:

Off I went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which looked
like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was then
directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

I wonder if it's even the same tool as the one you hired? I wonder if they
thought that this, much older tool, could be replaced by pressurising you;
they might even have deliberately not checked the one you returned so that
they could try to pull a fast one.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to replacing "aaa" by "284".

Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...


Your hire paperwork should detail the tool, serial and other equipment you
hired with it at the time,
As an ex Makita service engineer for a small tool hire company a few years
back the description you give of the damage is easily repairable and indeed
could be effected easily.
HAE Europe clearly states in its guide notes that the company hiring
equipment is responsible for checking it back *in* and issuing a completed
hide note to ensure the hire is terminated and that they accept the
equipment has been returned by the hirer in good condition less any obvious
wear and tear associated with the job the tool was used for, for example
blunted tool tips for breaker steels etc.

Tell them to go stuff themselves as the onus is on them to prove it was
damaged on return, if you didn't get any offhire paperwork then that's their
fault for not complying.

On 26/06/2013 05:19, Nthkentman wrote:

Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...



Your hire paperwork should detail the tool, serial and other equipment
you hired with it at the time,

It certainly should. Standard procedure.

As an ex Makita service engineer for a small tool hire company a few
years back the description you give of the damage is easily repairable
and indeed could be effected easily.

HAE Europe clearly states in its guide notes that the company hiring
equipment is responsible for checking it back *in* and issuing a
completed hide note to ensure the hire is terminated and that they
accept the equipment has been returned by the hirer in good condition
less any obvious wear and tear associated with the job the tool was used
for, for example blunted tool tips for breaker steels etc.

Absolutely. Every time I've hired anything similar they always open the
case to check that the chisel & point are there.

Tell them to go stuff themselves as the onus is on them to prove it was
damaged on return, if you didn't get any offhire paperwork then that's
their fault for not complying.


Agreed. They don't have a leg to stand on.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Sounds like when you walked in someone there thought you had MUG written on
your forehead.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Colin Stamp" wrote in message
o.uk...
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.

In message , Brian Gaff
writes
Sounds like when you walked in someone there thought you had MUG written on
your forehead.

Works both ways... I have told this tale before...

Standing at the counter of our local motor factor watching someone
return a 3 leg hub puller. The customer left and the attendant, for no
apparent reason, picked up the puller and threw it down onto the lino
covered counter top.

The tang from one of the legs promptly flew off as the temporary
(probably Araldite in those days) repair failed.....

--
Tim Lamb

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool, though I
don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired. It certainly
looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do have a problem with
their assertion that it was damaged on my hire. We don't remember it
having any accidents but I suppose a bit of block or something could
possibly have fallen on it whilst we weren't using it and we didn't notice.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at the
moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later one for
the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now off hire, but
I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and the Acrows, so
neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid in deposits from me.

When I returned the breaker, they gave me a copy of the despatch note
with the Acrows crossed off and "DESPATCH" changed to "RETURNED". They
also signed it. I'm guessing the reason they didn't open the box was
that they were just about to close. I didn't worry at the time since I
didn't know about any damage and I had my bit of signed paper...

I think it's likely that they did first notice the damage after I
returned the breaker, but we'll never know if it was already damaged
when I picked it up. It's the sort of damage that could easily go
unnoticed on a ratty old hire breaker. I'll certainly be a *lot* more
critical of the condition of tools I rent in the future!

We'll see how it goes with the Makita bill. If it's reasonable, I'll
probably pay. I might still ring trading standards though, just in case
they try on the same crap with someone else...

Cheers,

Colin.

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

The manager either bull****ting or does not know his law. Did you hire
this as a member of the public or as a business? In any case the maximum
the hirer can legally claim is the cost of repair or the market value at
the point you hired it. Anything else would be seen at "betterment"
which the law does not allow. I would put your case in writing and don't
let them try and browbeat you.


--
Peter Crosland

On 26/06/2013 09:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool, though I
don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired. It certainly
looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do have a problem with
their assertion that it was damaged on my hire. We don't remember it
having any accidents but I suppose a bit of block or something could
possibly have fallen on it whilst we weren't using it and we didn't notice.


In that case, they can't prove the damaged one was the one you hired.

Also, the bit about 'pallet stock' is total bollox. I spent years
selling stuff to hire shops & they don't buy anything until they
absolutely need it - cheap or not.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at the
moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later one for
the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now off hire, but
I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and the Acrows, so
neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

When I returned the breaker, they gave me a copy of the despatch note
with the Acrows crossed off and "DESPATCH" changed to "RETURNED". They
also signed it. I'm guessing the reason they didn't open the box was
that they were just about to close. I didn't worry at the time since I
didn't know about any damage and I had my bit of signed paper...

Their problem, not yours.

I think it's likely that they did first notice the damage after I
returned the breaker, but we'll never know if it was already damaged
when I picked it up. It's the sort of damage that could easily go
unnoticed on a ratty old hire breaker. I'll certainly be a *lot* more
critical of the condition of tools I rent in the future!

They should have examined it when you returned it & pointed out the
damage then. Tell them to take you to court.

We'll see how it goes with the Makita bill. If it's reasonable, I'll
probably pay. I might still ring trading standards though, just in case
they try on the same crap with someone else...

Cheers,

Colin.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 09:49:58 +0100, Colin Stamp wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool, though I
don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired. It certainly
looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do have a problem with
their assertion that it was damaged on my hire. We don't remember it
having any accidents but I suppose a bit of block or something could
possibly have fallen on it whilst we weren't using it and we didn't
notice.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at the
moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later one for
the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now off hire, but
I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and the Acrows, so
neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid in deposits from me.

When I returned the breaker, they gave me a copy of the despatch note
with the Acrows crossed off and "DESPATCH" changed to "RETURNED". They
also signed it. I'm guessing the reason they didn't open the box was
that they were just about to close. I didn't worry at the time since I
didn't know about any damage and I had my bit of signed paper...

I think it's likely that they did first notice the damage after I
returned the breaker, but we'll never know if it was already damaged
when I picked it up. It's the sort of damage that could easily go
unnoticed on a ratty old hire breaker. I'll certainly be a *lot* more
critical of the condition of tools I rent in the future!

We'll see how it goes with the Makita bill. If it's reasonable, I'll
probably pay. I might still ring trading standards though, just in case
they try on the same crap with someone else...

It might be worth posting your story on the uk.legal.moderated group.

ISTM that the hire firm don't have a leg to stand on. They can't even prove the item they hired to you was
damaged; although they *may* have a damaged one to show. I suspect that in a small claims court they couldn't
prove their case. I'm not sure about your £200 deposit, it's possible you could sue in the Small Claims Court for
its return.

As a first cut I'd post to ulm and see what they say.


--
Terry Fields

On Tuesday, June 25, 2013 9:19:03 PM UTC+1, Colin Stamp wrote:

The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be

as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the

full list price which he helpfully looked up.

So is the boss (a) engaging in some free enterprise that the directors don't know about, with the money going straight into his own pocket, or (b) losing the company money by accepting low offers that the directors would find unacceptable if they knew about them?

In either case, I think I'd be inclined to pose this question to the directors.

The guy sounds like a scammer.

Terry Fields wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jun 2013 09:49:58 +0100, Colin Stamp wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool, though I
don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired. It certainly
looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do have a problem with
their assertion that it was damaged on my hire. We don't remember it
having any accidents but I suppose a bit of block or something could
possibly have fallen on it whilst we weren't using it and we didn't
notice.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at the
moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later one for
the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now off hire, but
I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and the Acrows, so
neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid in deposits from me.

When I returned the breaker, they gave me a copy of the despatch note
with the Acrows crossed off and "DESPATCH" changed to "RETURNED". They
also signed it. I'm guessing the reason they didn't open the box was
that they were just about to close. I didn't worry at the time since I
didn't know about any damage and I had my bit of signed paper...

I think it's likely that they did first notice the damage after I
returned the breaker, but we'll never know if it was already damaged
when I picked it up. It's the sort of damage that could easily go
unnoticed on a ratty old hire breaker. I'll certainly be a *lot* more
critical of the condition of tools I rent in the future!

We'll see how it goes with the Makita bill. If it's reasonable, I'll
probably pay. I might still ring trading standards though, just in case
they try on the same crap with someone else...

It might be worth posting your story on the uk.legal.moderated group.

ISTM that the hire firm don't have a leg to stand on. They can't even prove the item they hired to you was
damaged; although they *may* have a damaged one to show. I suspect that in a small claims court they couldn't
prove their case. I'm not sure about your £200 deposit, it's possible you could sue in the Small Claims Court for
its return.

As a first cut I'd post to ulm and see what they say.


As there's no record of the serial number on the paperwork when it left,
they've got no proof that the damaged one was the one that was hired off
them anyway, especially if the hirer made no record of the serial number
while it was in his possession.

They're trying it on.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

polygonum wrote:
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through
on my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel
duly demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of
the last day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking
at it. Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it
had
been damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look?
Off I went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium
panel surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing
which looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating
half. I was then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an
arrangement" with, despite my protestations that it hadn't been
damaged whilst I had it. The boss explained that the tool, dispite still
working, was now
scrap since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test
vital to allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to
pay for a new one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485
quid, since he could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken"
tool from them for 200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker
and I didn't care about the "damage". This met with laughter. The
tool was "only six months old" and only a brand new replacement
would compensate them for the fact that it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss
urged me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to
refuse to pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to
"the directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't
likely to be as understanding as him and they would probably come
after me for the full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200
quid. If I still refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always
win". The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it
being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the
design". I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very
helpful. They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and
that, from my description of the damage, the tool would be quick and
cheap to repair. I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm
who responded that the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but
was still effectively new six months ago. He did seem much more
accommodating though and said he would take it to Makita and show me
their repair price before authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.


You have convinced me that I shall always photograph the tool at start
and end of any hire. (With something like a TV broadcast in the
background!)

Not UK Gold though.

--
Adam

Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had
been damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look?
Off I went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium
panel surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing
which looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating
half. I was then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an
arrangement" with, despite my protestations that it hadn't been
damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a
new one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since
he could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them
for 200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care
about the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six
months old" and only a brand new replacement would compensate them
for the fact that it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse
to pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to
be as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for
the full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I
still refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

Then they would win the £650 that a new one costs.

--
Adam

On 26/06/2013 17:57, ARW wrote:
polygonum wrote:
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through
on my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel
duly demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of
the last day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking
at it. Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it
had
been damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look?
Off I went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium
panel surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing
which looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating
half. I was then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an
arrangement" with, despite my protestations that it hadn't been
damaged whilst I had it. The boss explained that the tool, dispite still
working, was now
scrap since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test
vital to allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to
pay for a new one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485
quid, since he could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken"
tool from them for 200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker
and I didn't care about the "damage". This met with laughter. The
tool was "only six months old" and only a brand new replacement
would compensate them for the fact that it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss
urged me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to
refuse to pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to
"the directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't
likely to be as understanding as him and they would probably come
after me for the full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200
quid. If I still refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always
win". The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it
being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the
design". I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very
helpful. They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and
that, from my description of the damage, the tool would be quick and
cheap to repair. I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm
who responded that the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but
was still effectively new six months ago. He did seem much more
accommodating though and said he would take it to Makita and show me
their repair price before authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.


You have convinced me that I shall always photograph the tool at start
and end of any hire. (With something like a TV broadcast in the
background!)

Not UK Gold though.

OK Dave. :-)

(I was thinking of a news program!)

--
Rod

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...

I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on
my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly
demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last
day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.

Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been
damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I
went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel
surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which
looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was
then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,
despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.

The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap
since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to
allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new
one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he
could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for
200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about
the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"
and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that
it was now a total loss.

There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged
me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to
pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the
directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be
as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the
full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still
refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".

The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being
only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and
serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with
"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".
I bade him farewell and left.

Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.
They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my
description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.
I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that
the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new
six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he
would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before
authorising a payment.

All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my
first choice next time I want to hire something...

Cheers,

Colin.

One of the reasons I do DIY is to reduce the number of potentially
dishonest companies and individuals I have to deal with. I also dislike
hiring vehicles and equipment, because it seems fraught with the sort of
problem you've described. As a result, I've got a garage full of
acrowprops, budget scaffolding and rarely used cheap-but-heavy power
tools bought from Screwfix.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...

On 26/06/2013 09:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool, though I
don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired. It certainly
looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do have a problem with
their assertion that it was damaged on my hire. We don't remember it
having any accidents but I suppose a bit of block or something could
possibly have fallen on it whilst we weren't using it and we didn't
notice.


In that case, they can't prove the damaged one was the one you hired.

Also, the bit about 'pallet stock' is total bollox. I spent years
selling stuff to hire shops & they don't buy anything until they
absolutely need it - cheap or not.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at the
moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later one for
the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now off hire, but
I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and the Acrows, so
neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

When I returned the breaker, they gave me a copy of the despatch note
with the Acrows crossed off and "DESPATCH" changed to "RETURNED". They
also signed it. I'm guessing the reason they didn't open the box was
that they were just about to close. I didn't worry at the time since I
didn't know about any damage and I had my bit of signed paper...

Their problem, not yours.

I think it's likely that they did first notice the damage after I
returned the breaker, but we'll never know if it was already damaged
when I picked it up. It's the sort of damage that could easily go
unnoticed on a ratty old hire breaker. I'll certainly be a *lot* more
critical of the condition of tools I rent in the future!

They should have examined it when you returned it & pointed out the
damage then. Tell them to take you to court.

We'll see how it goes with the Makita bill. If it's reasonable, I'll
probably pay. I might still ring trading standards though, just in case
they try on the same crap with someone else...


+1 on what Dave says

They're trying it on because they ****ed up.....

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

Cheers,

Colin.

In article , Colin
Stamp scribeth thus
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

Cheers,

Colin.

Why don't you name them here?...
--
Tony Sayer

On Thursday 27 June 2013 17:02 Colin Stamp wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

Cheers,

Colin.

Name please...

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On 27/06/2013 17:49, Tim Watts wrote:
On Thursday 27 June 2013 17:02 Colin Stamp wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

Cheers,

Colin.

Name please...

It's The Milton Keynes branch of M&J :-

http://www.mjhire.co.uk/

Cheers,

Colin.

In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

If it's a chain, I'd contact head office and complain. Might just be a
local manager making a bit on the side.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/06/2013 18:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

If it's a chain, I'd contact head office and complain. Might just be a
local manager making a bit on the side.

M&J is a chain - they have a branch here.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 27/06/2013 18:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Colin Stamp wrote:
On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.
I thought it was a bit steep, but since they already had my money, I
wasn't in a good bargaining position. If I'd have had more time I'd have
argued the toss endlessly but as it was I just grumbled and paid.

Presumably, they had already given up any hope of repeat business...

If it's a chain, I'd contact head office and complain. Might just be a
local manager making a bit on the side.

And it could be a subtler scam than first appeared - scare with 500 quid
bill, obviously faked. Then the 50 quid one will get paid without a blink.

On 27/06/2013 19:11, Clive George wrote:
On 27/06/2013 18:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

If it's a chain, I'd contact head office and complain. Might just be a
local manager making a bit on the side.

And it could be a subtler scam than first appeared - scare with 500 quid
bill, obviously faked. Then the 50 quid one will get paid without a blink.


The thought had occurred to me too, but more with the 50 quid bill as a
consolation prize should the big one fail.

My guess though, is that they really did spot the damage first when the
breaker came back from me (whether it had been there all along we'll
never know). They noted that I was a DIYer who probably wouldn't be a
big loss if I got ****ed off and they decided to try it on. Cheeky *******s.

Cheers,

Colin.

On 26/06/2013 09:58, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool,
though I don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired.
It certainly looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do
have a problem with their assertion that it was damaged on my hire.
We don't remember it having any accidents but I suppose a bit of
block or something could possibly have fallen on it whilst we
weren't using it and we didn't notice.


In that case, they can't prove the damaged one was the one you
hired.

Also, the bit about 'pallet stock' is total bollox. I spent years
selling stuff to hire shops & they don't buy anything until they
absolutely need it - cheap or not.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at
the moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later
one for the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now
off hire, but I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and
the Acrows, so neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid
in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

That is dangerous, they could quite easily and justifiably add further
hire charges, and penalties for late return.

On Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:04:32 +0100, Colin Stamp
wrote:


http://www.mjhire.co.uk/

I'm temptedt to write them ans ask the MK branch if they have any
ex-rental Makita ratty old breakers for sale.

Colin Stamp put finger to keyboard:

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.

You should ask to see the repaired drill.

On 28/06/2013 12:02, Scion wrote:
Colin Stamp put finger to keyboard:

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for labour.

You should ask to see the repaired drill.

If it's a sensible scam, they'll have a bust part hanging around to put
on to show the punter it's bust, and a good one to put back on for the
actual rental.

Clive George put finger to keyboard:

On 28/06/2013 12:02, Scion wrote:
Colin Stamp put finger to keyboard:

On 25/06/2013 21:19, Colin Stamp wrote:

The story has concluded.

All the gear has now been picked up and they've had the drill fixed.
They stopped 50 quid out of my deposit - 40 for parts and 10 for
labour.

You should ask to see the repaired drill.

If it's a sensible scam, they'll have a bust part hanging around to put
on to show the punter it's bust, and a good one to put back on for the
actual rental.

True - but that's more effort than simply telling the customer he broke it
and they fixed it. Path of least resistance and all that.

On 28/06/2013 10:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:58, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool,
though I don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired.
It certainly looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do
have a problem with their assertion that it was damaged on my hire.
We don't remember it having any accidents but I suppose a bit of
block or something could possibly have fallen on it whilst we
weren't using it and we didn't notice.


In that case, they can't prove the damaged one was the one you
hired.

Also, the bit about 'pallet stock' is total bollox. I spent years
selling stuff to hire shops & they don't buy anything until they
absolutely need it - cheap or not.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at
the moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later
one for the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now
off hire, but I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and
the Acrows, so neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid
in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

That is dangerous, they could quite easily and justifiably add further
hire charges, and penalties for late return.

So you tell then to f*ck off.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 28/06/2013 17:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 28/06/2013 10:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:58, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool,
though I don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired.
It certainly looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do
have a problem with their assertion that it was damaged on my hire.
We don't remember it having any accidents but I suppose a bit of
block or something could possibly have fallen on it whilst we
weren't using it and we didn't notice.


In that case, they can't prove the damaged one was the one you
hired.

Also, the bit about 'pallet stock' is total bollox. I spent years
selling stuff to hire shops & they don't buy anything until they
absolutely need it - cheap or not.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at
the moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later
one for the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now
off hire, but I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and
the Acrows, so neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid
in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

That is dangerous, they could quite easily and justifiably add further
hire charges, and penalties for late return.

So you tell then to f*ck off.


So they hang on to his 200 quid.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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On 28/06/2013 22:29, Roger Mills wrote:
On 28/06/2013 17:46, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 28/06/2013 10:33, Fredxx wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:58, The Medway Handyman wrote:
On 26/06/2013 09:49, Colin Stamp wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points:-

The hire paperwork doesn't have a serial number for the tool,
though I don't doubt the one they showed me was the one I'd hired.
It certainly looked in a very similar state of general wear. I do
have a problem with their assertion that it was damaged on my hire.
We don't remember it having any accidents but I suppose a bit of
block or something could possibly have fallen on it whilst we
weren't using it and we didn't notice.


In that case, they can't prove the damaged one was the one you
hired.

Also, the bit about 'pallet stock' is total bollox. I spent years
selling stuff to hire shops & they don't buy anything until they
absolutely need it - cheap or not.

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at
the moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later
one for the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now
off hire, but I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and
the Acrows, so neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid
in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

That is dangerous, they could quite easily and justifiably add further
hire charges, and penalties for late return.

So you tell then to f*ck off.


So they hang on to his 200 quid.

So he hangs on to their several grand Genie.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The situation is a bit more complicated than it might look from my
original post. I actually have two hire orders "open" with them at
the moment. One for a Genie lift and seven Acrow props, and a later
one for the breaker and another six Acrows. All the stuff is now
off hire, but I'm still waiting for them to pick up the lift and
the Acrows, so neither hire is closed and they still have 200 quid
in deposits from me.

I would chain the Genie lift down with a substantial padlock and tell
them they can't have it back until they return your deposit.

That is dangerous, they could quite easily and justifiably add further
hire charges, and penalties for late return.

So you tell then to f*ck off.


So they hang on to his 200 quid.

So he hangs on to their several grand Genie.


If it were me I'd find out who the managing director is and put the case
to him in writing. Also I believe they have a trade association and
probably like many it exists for the benefit of its members but one
might hope that they see cases like this in a differing light and might
ask their member to adhere to their rules of practice..

Seems to me the branch manager is either on the make or fiddle
somewhere..

I've not hired from that firm but the few I have done so with I've had
very good service from. One in Wisbech we had a faulty breaker from not
only did they come out in a van with a replacement they were very
perfuse with apologies and refunded half the rental charge as
compensation not that we were actually inconvenienced that much if at
all;!....
--
Tony Sayer

On Tuesday, 25 June 2013 21:19:03 UTC+1, Colin Stamp wrote:
Here's a not-so little story for your amusement...



I rented a Makita HR5211C for a week to help with the knock-through on

my kitchen extension. With the wall and the huge concrete lintel duly

demolished, I took it back about 15 minutes before the end of the last

day of hire (yesterday). They accepted it without looking at it.



Today, the hire company phoned me to say they'd just noticed it had been

damaged and looked beyond repair. Could I come and have a look? Off I

went and they showed me the damage - a dent in the aluminium panel

surrounding the roto-stop control and a bit of plastic casing which

looked like it had bowed and come unhooked from its mating half. I was

then directed to the boss, who I must now come to "an arrangement" with,

despite my protestations that it hadn't been damaged whilst I had it.



The boss explained that the tool, dispite still working, was now scrap

since it was uneconomic to repair and certain to fail a test vital to

allowing it out on hire (PAT presumably). I would have to pay for a new

one but, luckily for me, I would only have to pay 485 quid, since he

could get them cheap. I offered to buy the "broken" tool from them for

200 quid since I could do with a decent breaker and I didn't care about

the "damage". This met with laughter. The tool was "only six months old"

and only a brand new replacement would compensate them for the fact that

it was now a total loss.



There followed a discussion about what my options were. The boss urged

me to make a claim on my house insurance. I elected instead to refuse to

pay, which would result in the dispute being escalated to "the

directors". The boss warned me that "the directors" weren't likely to be

as understanding as him and they would probably come after me for the

full list price which he helpfully looked up - 1200 quid. If I still

refused to pay, it would go to court and "we always win".



The tool was quite gnarly and I was a little sceptical about it being

only six months old, so I asked to see it again to take the model and

serial numbers. When I commented that the serial number started with

"2008" the boss, quick as a flash, said "That's the date of the design".

I bade him farewell and left.



Back home, I rang the Makita service department who were very helpful.

They confirmed that 2008 was the date of manufacture and that, from my

description of the damage, the tool would be quick and cheap to repair.

I passed this info on to the boss at the hire firm who responded that

the tool had been bought as "pallet stock" but was still effectively new

six months ago. He did seem much more accommodating though and said he

would take it to Makita and show me their repair price before

authorising a payment.



All in all, I've come to the conclusion that these people won't be my

first choice next time I want to hire something...



Cheers,



Colin.

By now we can be sure that the total cost to the company far exceeds the £50 they made out of you.

On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 00:14:56 -0700, wrote:

By now we can be sure that the total cost to the company far exceeds the
£50 they made out of you.

Assuming that the company actually saw the £50....!

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