I got a NICEIC email a few months back saying they were doing a one day
course, along with Click, explaining, and showing, how RF automation
works.

£120 inc. VAT, with the 'dangling carrot' of £50 of RF goods free. OK,
may be worthwhile, as I know nothing about it, so I booked it, and went
yesterday.

It was booked as 9 until 5. Actual time, 9 until 3.30, but could have
been finished by 2, and if no dinner, by 1pm.
Presentation was good, with a range of the kit all shown in use,
practical uses, how to use it, how to program it.
It is really simple, and nothing to be feared, very simple to install
and program. Some good ideas, such as where a 2 gang switch can be used
to control 4 appliances, and being RF, does not need any switch wires,
so the switch can be put anywhere, or, a small remote can be used to do
the same thing.

The kit shown was good, and seems to be good quality. However, when
asked how much things cost, the answer was dodged every time.
Of course they didnt want you to know how much it cost, as the price was
ridiculous. We didnt find out from the Presenters, we got our phones out
and googled, to find a single light (2/4 way) and actuator RF switch
would be roughly £130.

The fixed controller for central use was £400+.
Now, for 'normal' use, you'd be laughed off site when quoting such
prices, so this kit was only ever going to be for high-end customers,
even then, I would find it hard to try to sell such a system, which has
one point of failure - the controller, whereas a typical house would
have the many services (alarm,heating, lighting etc) all separate.

For some applications, such as adding a new light switch without doing
any chasing/decorating, it could be a good thing, albeit a rather
expensive one.

Then we get the 'free' goods. This was somewhat of a disappointment. I
would have expected a rf switch and actuator (but on seeing their price,
maybe not). We got a RF controlled plug-in socket, and a key fob remote
to control it. The type of thing that Toolstation sell for £15 for 3.
Being as I already have 3 of these, it is of little use.

It was good to see how these things work, but, I really should have read
up beforehand to see how simple it was, and not bother paying to be
told.
Far too expensive at £120. For £50, it would have been worthwhile,
especially as it really could have been shown in 4 hours, and not padded
out after dinner.
The kit is good, but too expensive, which they know, as they will not
say how much it costs.
Overall, I'd say avoid this day of salemens pitches. If you want to know
about it, give them a ring and ask for their brochures, all the stuff is
in there.

Alan.

--
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On Saturday 15 June 2013 08:17 A.Lee wrote in uk.d-i-y:


The fixed controller for central use was £400+.
Now, for 'normal' use, you'd be laughed off site when quoting such
prices, so this kit was only ever going to be for high-end customers,

This stuff is a tad cheaper - think it is of german origin:

http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/categ...9/Conrad-FS20-
Wireless-Control-Systems

There are quite a lot of other systems - but if comitting to a house
installation, I would try to find a manufacturer with long lived products -
it's no good not being able to get compatible replacements in the future.

even then, I would find it hard to try to sell such a system, which has
one point of failure - the controller, whereas a typical house would
have the many services (alarm,heating, lighting etc) all separate.

The "right way" (TM) to do this stuff is point to point RF switches and load
controllers with the option of a variety of controllers that can also
control various loads.

That way a single item failure takes out either one control circuit - or -
the fancy value added options. It still leaves you with most of the house
still working under manual control.

The really-right-way (TM) is for an open standard control protocol to emerge
(same RF frequesncy, same data sequences) so that a variety of
manufacturers' parts can be mixed. This would also ensure a decently long
life for a system.

Whilst we enjoy this with the Internet and with stuff like DVDs, TVs and so
on, the home/industrial automation industry is notoriously poor.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Saturday 15 June 2013 09:57 Tim Watts wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Saturday 15 June 2013 08:17 A.Lee wrote in uk.d-i-y:


The fixed controller for central use was £400+.
Now, for 'normal' use, you'd be laughed off site when quoting such
prices, so this kit was only ever going to be for high-end customers,

This stuff is a tad cheaper - think it is of german origin:

http://www.conrad-uk.com/ce/en/categ...9/Conrad-FS20-
Wireless-Control-Systems

There are quite a lot of other systems - but if comitting to a house
installation, I would try to find a manufacturer with long lived products
- it's no good not being able to get compatible replacements in the
future.

even then, I would find it hard to try to sell such a system, which has
one point of failure - the controller, whereas a typical house would
have the many services (alarm,heating, lighting etc) all separate.

The "right way" (TM) to do this stuff is point to point RF switches and
load controllers with the option of a variety of controllers that can also
control various loads.

Brain aneurism...

What I wanted to say, but was tired, was "and the option of adding a variety
of central controllers ranging from simple "anti burglar light randomisers"
to "remote internet control gateways" to "full on whole house mood
controllers.

If that expensive box of tricks dies, you still have the ability to turn the
lights on at the wall switch.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

A.Lee wrote:
I got a NICEIC email a few months back saying they were doing a one day
course, along with Click, explaining, and showing, how RF automation
works.

alarm bells
"we've teamed up with" = we'll only tell you about brand X

It was booked as 9 until 5. Actual time, 9 until 3.30, but could have
been finished by 2, and if no dinner, by 1pm.
Presentation was good, with a range of the kit all shown in use,
practical uses, how to use it, how to program it.
It is really simple, and nothing to be feared, very simple to install
and program. Some good ideas, such as where a 2 gang switch can be used
to control 4 appliances, and being RF, does not need any switch wires,
so the switch can be put anywhere, or, a small remote can be used to do
the same thing.

I'd have thought one key thing is how to install RF kit so that doesn't have
signal problems - eg don't attach it to an RSJ, don't expect signal to go
through the steel wardrobe doors, etc.

The kit shown was good, and seems to be good quality. However, when
asked how much things cost, the answer was dodged every time.
Of course they didnt want you to know how much it cost, as the price was
ridiculous. We didnt find out from the Presenters, we got our phones out
and googled, to find a single light (2/4 way) and actuator RF switch
would be roughly £130.

Sigh. There's really no reason for that.

The fixed controller for central use was £400+.
Now, for 'normal' use, you'd be laughed off site when quoting such
prices, so this kit was only ever going to be for high-end customers,
even then, I would find it hard to try to sell such a system, which has
one point of failure - the controller, whereas a typical house would
have the many services (alarm,heating, lighting etc) all separate.

Do such systems all use the same bands? Wouldn't be surprised if installing
another system for lighting caused sufficient interference to cause trouble
with the alarm/heating/wifi/etc.

For some applications, such as adding a new light switch without doing
any chasing/decorating, it could be a good thing, albeit a rather
expensive one.

Then we get the 'free' goods. This was somewhat of a disappointment. I
would have expected a rf switch and actuator (but on seeing their price,
maybe not). We got a RF controlled plug-in socket, and a key fob remote
to control it. The type of thing that Toolstation sell for £15 for 3.
Being as I already have 3 of these, it is of little use.

Let me guess... the 'free' goods were different/unbranded compared to the
bits you can buy from their glossy website?

The kit is good, but too expensive, which they know, as they will not
say how much it costs.
Overall, I'd say avoid this day of salemens pitches. If you want to know
about it, give them a ring and ask for their brochures, all the stuff is
in there.

I've been similarly bitten before (though I didn't pay for the privilege).

Supposedly ZigBee is a standard for RF home automation products though
takeup seems to be poor (partly since they're done stupid things on the
licensing front).

Theo