Terry Fields wrote in
:

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:44:39 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with
high radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to
brown and even burn before it has fully heated through.

How much radiant heat in a fan assisted oven at about 190C?

Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf,
it's nearer a radiating surface.




Fan ovens that I have seen have the element at the back wrapped around the
fan. The fan disperses the heat in all directions.

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 17:10:01 +0000, DerbyBorn wrote:

Terry Fields wrote in
:

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:44:39 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:

Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with
high radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to
brown and even burn before it has fully heated through.

How much radiant heat in a fan assisted oven at about 190C?

Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf,
it's nearer a radiating surface.

Fan ovens that I have seen have the element at the back wrapped around
the fan. The fan disperses the heat in all directions.

The radiated heat comes from the hot black surfaces of the interior of the oven; for stuff on the top shelf that
means essentially the roof of the oven.

It's one reason why it isn't recommended to line the oven with ally foil, which gives a much lower amount of
radiated heat - the ally has a very low emissivity.

--
Terry Fields

Terry Fields wrote
Dave Liquorice wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

You can heat a pie in a conventional fan oven in 15 minutes from cold?

Reading from the Pukka-Pies box that I just
happened to have laying around in the kitchen :

"After thawing overnight in a fridge (below 5 deg C) :

I'm surprised they suggest that, none of mine do.

heat in a fan assisted / gas oven for 20
minutes at 170 deg C / gas mark 3"

Oven from cold with pie in or oven pre-heated then pie in? All the oven
based cooking instructions I can remember all have pre-heated in them.

The problem with pre-heat or not depends on the thermal properties of the
food.

Once upon a time I used to carry out physical tests at elevated
temperatures on
special materials. The oven supplier for the testing machine provided a
handbook,
which suggested one of three heating heating regimes depending on the
thermal
properties of the material being tested. Regrettably I can't now recall
what the
properties were, but the results fell into one of three categories that
played the
greatest part in heating the specimens (partly dependent on their
dimensions):
convection, radiation, or a combination of both. The idea was to ensure
that
the specimens equilibrated at the elevated temperature in the shortest
time,
due to degredation.

Cooking a pie is rather similar, the radiative effect might play a
significant
part on the food-heating process. However, radiant heat is dependent on
the fourth power of the temperature, so essentially the maximum benefit
will be gained when the oven has reached the cooking temperature
recommended for that product, with not much contribution up to that point.
So putting a pie in a cold oven and turning on, might result in much less
radiative flux reaching the food, and so the product could be undercooked.

I've seen no evidence of that effect and I have tried it both ways with
pies.

And with a modern convection oven with rather more radiation than
you get in a conventional oven, it works fine too even with frozen pies
straight from the freezer. Both my convection ovens do say in the
instructions to preheat the oven, but I dont bother, essentially because
they are much smaller ovens and preheat very much more quickly than
the big conventional oven does.

For an oven that reaches temperature in a very few minutes this might
not matter much for a product that takes say 10 times that interval to
cook properly, but 15 minutes in an oven that takes 5 minutes to heat
could make a significant difference.

Sure, but there isnt much food cooking where that last is true.

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 02/03/2013 10:01, Terry Fields wrote:
On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 08:20:31 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 02:44:05 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

You can heat a pie in a conventional fan oven in 15 minutes from cold?

Reading from the Pukka-Pies box that I just happened to have laying
around in the kitchen :

"After thawing overnight in a fridge (below 5 deg C) : heat in a fan
assisted / gas oven for 20 minutes at 170 deg C / gas mark 3"

Oven from cold with pie in or oven pre-heated then pie in? All the oven
based cooking instructions I can remember all have pre-heated in them.

The problem with pre-heat or not depends on the thermal properties of the
food.

Once upon a time I used to carry out physical tests at elevated
temperatures on special materials. The oven
supplier for the testing machine provided a handbook, which suggested one
of three heating heating regimes
depending on the thermal properties of the material being tested.
Regrettably I can't now recall what the
properties were, but the results fell into one of three categories that
played the greatest part in heating the
specimens (partly dependent on their dimensions): convection, radiation,
or a combination of both. The idea was
to ensure that the specimens equilibrated at the elevated temperature in
the shortest time, due to degredation.

Cooking a pie is rather similar, the radiative effect might play a
significant part on the food-heating process.
However, radiant heat is dependent on the fourth power of the
temperature, so essentially the maximum benefit
will be gained when the oven has reached the cooking temperature
recommended for that product, with not
much contribution up to that point. So putting a pie in a cold oven and
turning on, might result in much less
radiative flux reaching the food, and so the product could be
undercooked.

For an oven that reaches temperature in a very few minutes this might not
matter much for a product that takes
say 10 times that interval to cook properly, but 15 minutes in an oven
that takes 5 minutes to heat could make a
significant difference.

Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with high
radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to brown and even
burn before it has fully heated through.

Sure, but you only get that effect if the oven temp is set much
too high. Thats why you heat pies at 350F, not higher than that.

Hence, in my book, bung it in a cold oven, and take it out when centre is
hot PLUS aesthetically browned to desirable point.

And its the oven temp which produces that pair.

Even if that takes longer than the packet says. But that does need a
thermometer or other means of checking pie interior temperature.

I dont bother with a thermometer, just stick a metal skewer in
the pie and feel how hot it is when you take the skewer out.

I believe that in many cases that might reduce overall fuel consumption.
Probably not all cases and possibly by a very slim margin.

I think it would be very slim if you open the door much to check the temp.

It also matters what the pie is placed on in the oven.

I haven't seen it makes any difference. With bigger stuff like pies they
go bare on the metal shelf. The smaller stuff like sausage rolls to on a
metal sheet with a sheet of baking paper on top so I dont bother
to wash the metal sheet very often, just use new paper every time.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with high
radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to brown and
even burn before it has fully heated through.

How much radiant heat in a fan assisted oven at about 190C?

Hell of a lot with convection oven with their
very high radiation temps, very light yellow lights.

"Terry Fields" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:44:39 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with
high radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to brown
and even burn before it has fully heated through.

How much radiant heat in a fan assisted oven at about 190C?

Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf,
it's nearer a radiating surface.

I've never put roasts on the top shelf.

And I do jack the oven temp up when doing the potatoes.

The leg of lamb is done at 350F for hours, depending on the weight.

The oven temp is upped to 450F for the last hour it takes for
potatoes, with the potatoes turned at half time. The potatoes
are in deep fat with the leg on a metal rack out of the fat.

One real oddity is that if I try to do more roast potatoes
alone days later to eat with the remains of the leg of lamb,
450F for an hour in fat gets them much too cooked when
there is no leg of lamb in the oven with them for some reason.

Its not the oven temp, that doesnt change. Seems unlikely
that its the fat temp. The most obvious thing is that the
leg itself doesnt radiate like the oven walls do.

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 10:08:39 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I use about 200 units/quarter

Blimey !! I use 200 units a week !

Same here. Just reda the meter - 850 units in the last 28 days...

397 units last month.

About 2000 in the last 28 days. Bloody E7 and storeage heaters...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 1 Mar,
"Dave Liquorice" wrote:

I must investigate our 300W night load as it's pretty steady for hours. I
don't see 50 - 100W steps that I would expect from fridges/freezers
cutting in and out. They are all A class though so perhaps they don't
actualy come on all that often in the wee small hours.

How are you measuring it? if a current probe on the incoming tails it will be
measuring KVA. I find that our microwave (inverter type) mains filter
consumes when not in use enough(capacitive)KVA to mask most of the load
imposed by the fridge or freezer, which have a large inductive loading.
--
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 10:08:39 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I use about 200 units/quarter

Blimey !! I use 200 units a week !

Same here. Just reda the meter - 850 units in the last 28 days...

397 units last month.

About 2000 in the last 28 days. Bloody E7 and storeage heaters...

--
Cheers
Dave.


Now that *is* a lot ... I'm actually sad enough to record my day and night
usage every day in a little book. Night time is dead steady at 6 units
(there's two computahs that are never switched off, and a couple of freezers
and so on). Daytime runs about 30 units on average. I must admit that I'm
very lazy about turning off the workshop anytime before I go to bed. At the
weekends, when the workshop is often off all day, usage can be as low as 20
units. It's been up at about 37 for the last couple of weeks though, with
having to have heating on whilst I'm working :-(

Arfa

"Terry Fields" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:44:39 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with
high radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to brown
and even burn before it has fully heated through.

How much radiant heat in a fan assisted oven at about 190C?

Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf,
it's nearer a radiating surface.



--
Terry Fields


My old mum always told me that it was hotter in the top of the oven, because
the hot air rises and collects in the top. It's certainly hotter at the
back, because that's where the element for the oven often is. Both the ovens
in my range cooker, have grill elements in the top ...

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

My old mum always told me that it was hotter in the top of the oven, because
the hot air rises and collects in the top.

But did her oven have a fan?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 02:37:36 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

My old mum always told me that it was hotter in the top of the oven, because
the hot air rises and collects in the top. It's certainly hotter at the
back, because that's where the element for the oven often is. Both the ovens
in my range cooker, have grill elements in the top ...

The "hotter at the top" came from gas cooker days and specifically the
advertising of the Radiation cooker company in the 1920's when they
introduced the New World cooker with Regulo control and gas burner at
the back, rather than underneath.. Initially only controlling gas
flow (and overcoming the problem of early gas supplies where pressure
varied as more people turned on cookers for dinner) the Regulo later
became a thermostatic control.

The company promoted the predictable temperature gradient of about
40deg C caused by having a fire at the bottom and a vent for the
combustion products at the top as a positive advantage and enabling
you to cook a whole dinner at once and without constant attention,

They advertised their cookers as having different "zones of heat". You
had a span of about 3 "Regulo numbers" between the bottom and top of a
Regulo oven so could cook a whole dinner of fish, meat, vegetables,
sauce and pudding at once and for the same time, the roast at the top,
the vegetables in the middle and the rice pudding at the bottom. You
put your dinner in the oven and relaxed with your glass of sherry
(medicinal purposes only) until dinner time arrived and everything was
served.

Each oven came with a proper cookery book which included some really
exotic dishes such as curry.

"Dave Liquorice" writes:

On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 10:08:39 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

I use about 200 units/quarter

Blimey !! I use 200 units a week !

Same here. Just reda the meter - 850 units in the last 28 days...

397 units last month.

About 2000 in the last 28 days. Bloody E7 and storeage heaters...

But just think what that would cost if it *wasn't* E7 !

(That sounds like 3 rooms with 3KW storage heaters).

--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Rod Speed" writes:



"Terry Fields" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:44:39 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
polygonum wrote:
Makes sense. But putting a pie with a cold centre into an oven with
high radiant heat (i.e. full pre-heated) can cause the pastry to brown
and even burn before it has fully heated through.

How much radiant heat in a fan assisted oven at about 190C?

Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf,
it's nearer a radiating surface.

I've never put roasts on the top shelf.

And I do jack the oven temp up when doing the potatoes.

The leg of lamb is done at 350F for hours, depending on the weight.

You'd save a considerable amount of money by using a combi oven.
The microwave speeds cooking a great deal, and the convection ensures
the outside is crisp.
It does take some time to learn the correct settings though, and it
might take some juggling to cook potatoes at the same time.


--
Windmill, Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 02:37:36 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

My old mum always told me that it was hotter in the top of the oven,
because
the hot air rises and collects in the top. It's certainly hotter at the
back, because that's where the element for the oven often is. Both the
ovens
in my range cooker, have grill elements in the top ...

The "hotter at the top" came from gas cooker days and specifically the
advertising of the Radiation cooker company in the 1920's when they
introduced the New World cooker with Regulo control and gas burner at
the back, rather than underneath.. Initially only controlling gas
flow (and overcoming the problem of early gas supplies where pressure
varied as more people turned on cookers for dinner) the Regulo later
became a thermostatic control.

The company promoted the predictable temperature gradient of about
40deg C caused by having a fire at the bottom and a vent for the
combustion products at the top as a positive advantage and enabling
you to cook a whole dinner at once and without constant attention,

They advertised their cookers as having different "zones of heat". You
had a span of about 3 "Regulo numbers" between the bottom and top of a
Regulo oven so could cook a whole dinner of fish, meat, vegetables,
sauce and pudding at once and for the same time, the roast at the top,
the vegetables in the middle and the rice pudding at the bottom. You
put your dinner in the oven and relaxed with your glass of sherry
(medicinal purposes only) until dinner time arrived and everything was
served.

Each oven came with a proper cookery book which included some really
exotic dishes such as curry.



Ah yes - Regulos ! That will be it then. We definitely had a New World
cooker when I was a kid. My dear old mum was a real devil for technology.
She loved it. She was the first in the street to have an ITV aerial, the
first to have 625, and one of the first to have colour TV !

Arfa

In article ,
Peter Parry wrote:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2013 02:37:36 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

My old mum always told me that it was hotter in the top of the oven, because
the hot air rises and collects in the top. It's certainly hotter at the
back, because that's where the element for the oven often is. Both the ovens
in my range cooker, have grill elements in the top ...

The "hotter at the top" came from gas cooker days and specifically the
advertising of the Radiation cooker company in the 1920's when they
introduced the New World cooker with Regulo control and gas burner at
the back, rather than underneath.. Initially only controlling gas
flow (and overcoming the problem of early gas supplies where pressure
varied as more people turned on cookers for dinner) the Regulo later
became a thermostatic control.

The company promoted the predictable temperature gradient of about
40deg C caused by having a fire at the bottom and a vent for the
combustion products at the top as a positive advantage and enabling
you to cook a whole dinner at once and without constant attention,

They advertised their cookers as having different "zones of heat". You
had a span of about 3 "Regulo numbers" between the bottom and top of a
Regulo oven so could cook a whole dinner of fish, meat, vegetables,
sauce and pudding at once and for the same time, the roast at the top,
the vegetables in the middle and the rice pudding at the bottom. You
put your dinner in the oven and relaxed with your glass of sherry
(medicinal purposes only) until dinner time arrived and everything was
served.

Each oven came with a proper cookery book which included some really
exotic dishes such as curry.

Ah yes! My grandparents (who I lived with when younger) had one of
those cookers. There was a pilot light in the middle and a separate gas
torch that you used to light the oven (light the torch off the pilot,
then transfer it to the pilot hole at the front of the floor of the oven.

Current oven is a Stanley range cooker - and it's definately got its
hot spots and cooler areas - top left is hottest, so cakes baked in the
middle do need turning half way through. It's no big deal - annoying
at times though.

Gordon

On 03/03/13 11:17, Arfa Daily wrote:

Ah yes - Regulos ! That will be it then. We definitely had a New World
cooker when I was a kid. My dear old mum was a real devil for
technology. She loved it. She was the first in the street to have an ITV
aerial, the first to have 625, and one of the first to have colour TV !


How vulgar. We were proud of the fact we were the last..

Arfa


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 01:04:25 GMT, wrote:

I must investigate our 300W night load as it's pretty steady for
hours. I don't see 50 - 100W steps that I would expect from
fridges/freezers cutting in and out. They are all A class though so
perhaps they don't actualy come on all that often in the wee small
hours.

How are you measuring it?

Curent transformer around the tails to a "CurrentCost" monitoring unit.

I find that our microwave (inverter type) mains filter consumes when
not in use enough(capacitive)KVA to mask most of the load imposed by
the fridge or freezer, which have a large inductive loading.

My AC theory isn't up to this lead/lag, inductive v capacitive loads
stuff. My simple brain says that there is a change when an inductive load
(fridge or freezer) comes on so this ought to be visible.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 02/03/2013 15:47, Terry Fields wrote:
Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf, it's nearer a radiating surface.

Interesting. You make it further from the surface, but at a better angle
to it, and also expose it to more radiation from the side walls. Are you
sure it makes any difference? (I'm certain it wouldn't in a spherical
oven!)

Andy

On Sun, 03 Mar 2013 16:04:49 +0000, Andy Champ wrote:

On 02/03/2013 15:47, Terry Fields wrote:
Quite a lot, that's why roasts like potatoes are put on the top shelf,
it's nearer a radiating surface.

Interesting. You make it further from the surface, but at a better angle
to it, and also expose it to more radiation from the side walls. Are you
sure it makes any difference? (I'm certain it wouldn't in a spherical
oven!)

Andy

An interesting test would be to peel and par-boil a spherical potato, then pop it on a baking tray so that the top of
it (the potato) is 1" from the top of the (fan) oven, but centrally located, say 6" from each side and the back (i.e.
top shelf in the centre) of the hot oven. Observe which parts of it brown first, and how fast.

When the top of the potato has cooked to your satisfaction, remove, dip in butter, and eat...

--
Terry Fields

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/13 11:17, Arfa Daily wrote:

Ah yes - Regulos ! That will be it then. We definitely had a New World
cooker when I was a kid. My dear old mum was a real devil for
technology. She loved it. She was the first in the street to have an ITV
aerial, the first to have 625, and one of the first to have colour TV !


How vulgar. We were proud of the fact we were the last..


No accounting for taste, I suppose. But what I don't understand is if you
had a TV in the first place, why on earth would you be "proud" of doggedly
continuing to watch in an unnatural black and white, when very acceptable
colour was available. Unless it was more of a case of being able to afford
it ? ;-)

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote
The Natural Philosopher wrote
Arfa Daily wrote

Ah yes - Regulos ! That will be it then. We definitely had a New World
cooker when I was a kid. My dear old mum was a real devil for
technology. She loved it. She was the first in the street to have an ITV
aerial, the first to have 625, and one of the first to have colour TV !

How vulgar. We were proud of the fact we were the last..

No accounting for taste, I suppose. But what I don't understand is if you
had a TV in the first place, why on earth would you be "proud" of doggedly
continuing to watch in an unnatural black and white, when very acceptable
colour was available.

Yeah, no point in being last with something useful like that.

Just mindless snobbery IMO.

Unless it was more of a case of being able to afford it ? ;-)

On 03/03/2013 23:14, Terry Fields wrote:
An interesting test would be to peel and par-boil a spherical potato, then pop it on a baking tray so that the top of
it (the potato) is 1" from the top of the (fan) oven, but centrally located, say 6" from each side and the back (i.e.
top shelf in the centre) of the hot oven. Observe which parts of it brown first, and how fast.

You need to repeat this with identical potatoes in different parts of
the oven. You'll obviously need to run each location several times to
help remove any effects from the oven warming up over time, and also you
must have three people running the experiment - one to place and cook
the spuds, and another one to serve and record the experimentee's results.

Actually thinking about it this would make a good project for a school.

When the top of the potato has cooked to your satisfaction, remove, dip in butter, and eat...

Did anyone say diet?

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
On 03/03/2013 23:14, Terry Fields wrote:
An interesting test would be to peel and par-boil a spherical potato,
then pop it on a baking tray so that the top of
it (the potato) is 1" from the top of the (fan) oven, but centrally
located, say 6" from each side and the back (i.e.
top shelf in the centre) of the hot oven. Observe which parts of it brown
first, and how fast.

You need to repeat this with identical potatoes in different parts of the
oven. You'll obviously need to run each location several times to help
remove any effects from the oven warming up over time, and also you must
have three people running the experiment - one to place and cook the
spuds, and another one to serve and record the experimentee's results.

Actually thinking about it this would make a good project for a school.


Probably better as a post-grad project. You could probably get government
money for a two year study by a team of at least five people, and a nice
warm room in the university to do the study. Then you could figure out how
hot potatoes fit into the global warming model, and have a research grant
for you and your team, for life ... ! :-)

Arfa

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Ah yes - Regulos ! That will be it then. We definitely had a New World
cooker when I was a kid. My dear old mum was a real devil for
technology. She loved it. She was the first in the street to have an
ITV aerial, the first to have 625, and one of the first to have colour
TV !


How vulgar. We were proud of the fact we were the last..

Strange thing to be proud of - especially since you eventually changed to
colour. There are plenty fashions which are pointless to follow IMHO, but
that isn't one of them.

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/03/2013 10:20, Windmill wrote:

You'd save a considerable amount of money by using a combi oven.
The microwave speeds cooking a great deal, and the convection ensures
the outside is crisp.
It does take some time to learn the correct settings though, and it
might take some juggling to cook potatoes at the same time.


On the other hand...

I have never tried measuring any of these things so could be well
adrift. But, keeping an oven at temperature is not that heavy a load.
And, because it is heated by a resistance element, that heating is near
enough 100% efficient.

Whereas a microwave is significantly less than 100% efficient because
the generation of the actual microwaves incurs losses - e.g. in power
supply and magnetron. And in a combi you have the cost of getting the
oven hot plus these losses.

For goodness sake someone! You must have worked it out or measured?

--
Rod

polygonum wrote
Windmill wrote

You'd save a considerable amount of money by using a combi oven.
The microwave speeds cooking a great deal, and the convection ensures the
outside is crisp.

It does take some time to learn the correct settings though, and it might
take some juggling to cook potatoes at the same time.

Just have two.

On the other hand...

I have never tried measuring any of these things so could be well adrift.

Yes, you are.

But, keeping an oven at temperature is not that heavy a load. And, because
it is heated by a resistance element, that heating is near enough 100%
efficient.

It isnt in the sense of getting the heat into what you are cooking
like with a roast.

Whereas a microwave is significantly less than 100% efficient because the
generation of the actual microwaves incurs losses - e.g. in power supply
and magnetron.

But most of the energy ends up in what you
are cooking, not just heating the oven itself.

And in a combi you have the cost of getting the oven hot plus these
losses.

But with a convection oven, you are again moving
the heated air over what you are cooking, and not
just heating up the entire oven and letting it radiate
from there into the food.

For goodness sake someone! You must have worked it out or measured?

You clearly don't understand the basics yourself.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.co.uk...
On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 02:44:05 -0000, Arfa Daily wrote:

You can heat a pie in a conventional fan oven in 15 minutes from cold?

Reading from the Pukka-Pies box that I just happened to have laying
around in the kitchen :

"After thawing overnight in a fridge (below 5 deg C) : heat in a fan
assisted / gas oven for 20 minutes at 170 deg C / gas mark 3"

Oven from cold with pie in or oven pre-heated then pie in? All the oven
based cooking instructions I can remember all have pre-heated in them.

If its a conventional oven it would need pre-heating up to temperature,
then cook for 20 minutes. A fan oven doesn't need to pre-heat, so the pie
can go straight from fridge to oven to cooked in 20 minutes.

Or you could microwave it in about 3.

In article ,
Thumper wrote:
If its a conventional oven it would need pre-heating up to temperature,
then cook for 20 minutes. A fan oven doesn't need to pre-heat, so the
pie can go straight from fridge to oven to cooked in 20 minutes.

IMHO, ********. Neither of my fan ovens gets up to heat quickly. The
smaller one takes about 8 minutes to 200C. Food heating details usually
gives a lower temp for fan ovens - not a shorter time. Probably a
different thing with much longer cooking times, though.

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Dave Plowman London SW
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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Thumper wrote:
If its a conventional oven it would need pre-heating up to temperature,
then cook for 20 minutes. A fan oven doesn't need to pre-heat, so the
pie can go straight from fridge to oven to cooked in 20 minutes.

IMHO, ********. Neither of my fan ovens gets up to heat quickly. The
smaller one takes about 8 minutes to 200C. Food heating details usually
gives a lower temp for fan ovens - not a shorter time. Probably a
different thing with much longer cooking times, though.

Yeah for 200C in a conventional it would be around 180C in a fan oven.
Although I don't need to pre-heat before putting food in, I do add about 5
minutes to the cooking time at the end, just to make sure.