Having seen the thread about street rewiring, I wondered how the joints are done from the main supply cable going down the street, to the individual houses.
I am thinking they would to it without cutting the main cable - like when you wire a ring circuit looping at each socket to avoid a potential break of the ring at the sockets.
Obviously there may be different methods depending on the cable type, but ...
Anyone know how it is done ?
Simon.

On 18/02/2013 20:06, sm_jamieson wrote:
Having seen the thread about street rewiring, I wondered how the joints are done from the main supply cable going down the street, to the individual houses.
I am thinking they would to it without cutting the main cable - like when you wire a ring circuit looping at each socket to avoid a potential break of the ring at the sockets.
Obviously there may be different methods depending on the cable type, but ...
Anyone know how it is done ?
Simon.


I once spent a weeks work experience with the underground jointing team
at the local electricity board.

One such job involved connecting new houses to an existing 3 phase cable
that was feeding soome houses both before and after.

first its locate cable using voltage detectors. turn off power and dig hole.

The cable can be thought of as a three core cable with an outer neutral
shell.

The cable is carefully cut to expose the neutral outer shell and three
inner phase conductors.

The cable was they spread apart so that there was air between all
conductors.

You then use a blow torch & solder to attach the branch cable (which
looks like armoured cable) the inner wire of the branch cable to one of
the now exposed three phases. The skin conductor is then soldered to
the neutral of the underground cable.

There is a kit which is basically contains two plastic shells,
plasticene and a epoxy resin & hardener.

You apply the two plastic shells around the thick cable so as gto
completely cover it. Make a small hole for the new branch cable thats
just been attached.

Putty/plasticene is then applied at the cable - shell gaps.

The epoxy resin and hardener is then mixed in a bucket and then poured
into the now assembled closed shell which has an opening at the top for
the expoy resin & hardener mix to be poured into.

The men then have a cup of tea or lunch.

Once the resin has hardened, the hol eis then back filled and the gang
move onto the next house.

cables that have fractured/shorted/open circuited are repaired in a
similar way. cut out a couple of metres of cable on both sides of the
fault, and use a new length of cable plus two jointing kits to connect
up the two ends of the old cable.


Stephen.

The cup of tea is obviously a very important part of this process.

Brian

--
From the Bed of Brian Gaff.
The email is valid as
Blind user.
"Stephen H" wrote in message
...
On 18/02/2013 20:06, sm_jamieson wrote:
Having seen the thread about street rewiring, I wondered how the joints
are done from the main supply cable going down the street, to the
individual houses.
I am thinking they would to it without cutting the main cable - like when
you wire a ring circuit looping at each socket to avoid a potential break
of the ring at the sockets.
Obviously there may be different methods depending on the cable type, but
...
Anyone know how it is done ?
Simon.


I once spent a weeks work experience with the underground jointing team at
the local electricity board.

One such job involved connecting new houses to an existing 3 phase cable
that was feeding soome houses both before and after.

first its locate cable using voltage detectors. turn off power and dig
hole.

The cable can be thought of as a three core cable with an outer neutral
shell.

The cable is carefully cut to expose the neutral outer shell and three
inner phase conductors.

The cable was they spread apart so that there was air between all
conductors.

You then use a blow torch & solder to attach the branch cable (which looks
like armoured cable) the inner wire of the branch cable to one of the now
exposed three phases. The skin conductor is then soldered to the neutral
of the underground cable.

There is a kit which is basically contains two plastic shells, plasticene
and a epoxy resin & hardener.

You apply the two plastic shells around the thick cable so as gto
completely cover it. Make a small hole for the new branch cable thats just
been attached.

Putty/plasticene is then applied at the cable - shell gaps.

The epoxy resin and hardener is then mixed in a bucket and then poured
into the now assembled closed shell which has an opening at the top for
the expoy resin & hardener mix to be poured into.

The men then have a cup of tea or lunch.

Once the resin has hardened, the hol eis then back filled and the gang
move onto the next house.

cables that have fractured/shorted/open circuited are repaired in a
similar way. cut out a couple of metres of cable on both sides of the
fault, and use a new length of cable plus two jointing kits to connect up
the two ends of the old cable.


Stephen.

Stephen H wrote:
The cable is carefully cut to expose the neutral outer shell and three
inner phase conductors.
....

http://www.wt-henley.com/products-ca...cessories.html has some good
pictures of the process. As I had three new supplies installed I had
the full three-phase cable spliced in

JGH

In article , Stephen H
wrote:
On 18/02/2013 20:06, sm_jamieson wrote:
Having seen the thread about street rewiring, I wondered how the joints
are done from the main supply cable going down the street, to the
individual houses. I am thinking they would to it without cutting the
main cable - like when you wire a ring circuit looping at each socket
to avoid a potential break of the ring at the sockets. Obviously there
may be different methods depending on the cable type, but ... Anyone
know how it is done ? Simon.


I once spent a weeks work experience with the underground jointing team
at the local electricity board.

One such job involved connecting new houses to an existing 3 phase cable
that was feeding soome houses both before and after.

first its locate cable using voltage detectors. turn off power and dig
hole.

The cable can be thought of as a three core cable with an outer neutral
shell.

The cable is carefully cut to expose the neutral outer shell and three
inner phase conductors.

The cable was they spread apart so that there was air between all
conductors.

You then use a blow torch & solder to attach the branch cable (which
looks like armoured cable) the inner wire of the branch cable to one of
the now exposed three phases. The skin conductor is then soldered to
the neutral of the underground cable.

There is a kit which is basically contains two plastic shells,
plasticene and a epoxy resin & hardener.

You apply the two plastic shells around the thick cable so as gto
completely cover it. Make a small hole for the new branch cable thats
just been attached.

Putty/plasticene is then applied at the cable - shell gaps.

The epoxy resin and hardener is then mixed in a bucket and then poured
into the now assembled closed shell which has an opening at the top for
the expoy resin & hardener mix to be poured into.

The men then have a cup of tea or lunch.

Once the resin has hardened, the hol eis then back filled and the gang
move onto the next house.

cables that have fractured/shorted/open circuited are repaired in a
similar way. cut out a couple of metres of cable on both sides of the
fault, and use a new length of cable plus two jointing kits to connect
up the two ends of the old cable.


Seem remarkable similar to what I saw when a student with SSEB in 1961.
Only change was that hot pitch was poured into the shell - which was made
of lead. The shell as then solder-wiped to the cables.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18

On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:20:55 PM UTC, charles wrote:

Seem remarkable similar to what I saw when a student with SSEB in 1961.
Only change was that hot pitch was poured into the shell - which was made
of lead. The shell as then solder-wiped to the cables.

Why the change from cheap pitch to expensive epoxy?


NT

In article ,
writes:
On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:20:55 PM UTC, charles wrote:

Seem remarkable similar to what I saw when a student with SSEB in 1961.
Only change was that hot pitch was poured into the shell - which was made
of lead. The shell as then solder-wiped to the cables.

Why the change from cheap pitch to expensive epoxy?

Pitch leaks out, particularly if the cable runs warm.
Also more of a H&S risk handling it.
The resin cost is probably insignificant by the time
you've added in the callout charge, digging the hole, etc.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:48:12 AM UTC, wrote:
On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:20:55 PM UTC, charles wrote:



Seem remarkable similar to what I saw when a student with SSEB in 1961.

Only change was that hot pitch was poured into the shell - which was made

of lead. The shell as then solder-wiped to the cables.



Why the change from cheap pitch to expensive epoxy?

Primarily because the cable materials changed - old cables, paper insulated, lead sheathed, steel tape armoured. Paper impregnated with mineral oil, amouring bedded in hessian and pitch coated.

Now it's various man-made types of insulation which don't sit too happily with hot pitch. And as AG mentioned, H&S issues.

Brian Gaff wrote:
The cup of tea is obviously a very important part of this process.

It's no coincidence that the joint box filler takes the same time to set
as it takes to make and drink a mug of tea. (Insert smiley here)


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 07:50 Broadland Wanderer wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:48:12 AM UTC, wrote:
On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:20:55 PM UTC, charles wrote:



Seem remarkable similar to what I saw when a student with SSEB in 1961.

Only change was that hot pitch was poured into the shell - which was
made

of lead. The shell as then solder-wiped to the cables.



Why the change from cheap pitch to expensive epoxy?

Primarily because the cable materials changed - old cables, paper
insulated, lead sheathed, steel tape armoured. Paper impregnated with
mineral oil, amouring bedded in hessian and pitch coated.

Now it's various man-made types of insulation which don't sit too happily
with hot pitch. And as AG mentioned, H&S issues.

And you'd have to run a pitch boiler - which is not really convenient for a
job here and a job there.
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Feb 19, 12:48*am, wrote:
On Monday, February 18, 2013 11:20:55 PM UTC, charles wrote:
Seem remarkable similar to what I saw when a student with SSEB in 1961.
Only change was that hot pitch was poured into the shell - which was made
of lead. The shell as then solder-wiped to the cables.

Why the change from cheap pitch to expensive epoxy?

NT

Money.
The cable was all paper insulated and lead sleeved.
The old system used cast iron boxes lots of lead, pitch, soldering,
wiping and all the insulation was replaced with tapes that had to be
heated also.



It was all highly skilled work, it would take a day to do each joint,
with a couple of people. never mind all the searching, digging and
reinstating.
Most of the work was done live.
I send weeks as an apprentice on the job and went on a course years
ago. But never did it for a living.

The new plastic sheathed cable came out shortly afterwards so it was
all redundant knowledge except for repairs.

The new resin joints, well it takes a few hours instruction.
At the end of it a better job too.

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:53:51 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:

And you'd have to run a pitch boiler - which is not really convenient for a

job here and a job there.


No, compound bucket and gas burner. FWIW, A57 compound. Pouring temperature 120-130 C.

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:21:34 AM UTC, harry wrote:


I send weeks as an apprentice on the job and went on a course years

You weren't the comedian who thought he could wipe a plumb without a catch cloth were you?

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 13:55 Broadland Wanderer wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 8:53:51 AM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:

And you'd have to run a pitch boiler - which is not really convenient for
a

job here and a job there.


No, compound bucket and gas burner. FWIW, A57 compound. Pouring
temperature 120-130 C.

Well, what I meant was you'd have to let it cool down before shoving it in
the van, and heat it up again at the next job - presumably?..

I was not alluding to it being the same size boiler as roofers use (unless
you where joining *really big* cables ;-

BTW - do they still use sold if lead served cables are being repaired? And
do they still ladel the solder on (2 ladels)?


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:18:31 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:


Well, what I meant was you'd have to let it cool down before shoving it in

the van, and heat it up again at the next job - presumably?..

Cool a bit, but storage on the vans allow for buckets to be contained properly.

BTW - do they still use sold if lead served cables are being repaired? And

do they still ladel the solder on (2 ladels)?

Tinman's solder for copper joints, can't remember what is used for aluminium, plumber's metal for wiped lead joints. Yes, ladle to ladle for soldering, ladle onto catch cloth for a wiped joint on lead.

Cable jointers were always a bit scathing about plumbers, on the grounds that it's very easy to melt away the lead sheath on a cable, so the skill level for cable jointing was always thought to be much greater.

On Monday, February 18, 2013 10:23:04 PM UTC, jgharston wrote:
snip

http://www.wt-henley.com/products-ca...cessories.html has some good
pictures of the process. As I had three new supplies installed I had
the full three-phase cable spliced in

Nice link! I see they still have their yellow compound, too - I remember packing loads of this around a box when we were trying to cut down vibration...

On Tuesday 19 February 2013 15:05 Broadland Wanderer wrote in uk.d-i-y:

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:18:31 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:


Well, what I meant was you'd have to let it cool down before shoving it
in

the van, and heat it up again at the next job - presumably?..

Cool a bit, but storage on the vans allow for buckets to be contained
properly.

BTW - do they still use sold if lead served cables are being repaired?
And

do they still ladel the solder on (2 ladels)?

Tinman's solder for copper joints, can't remember what is used for
aluminium, plumber's metal for wiped lead joints. Yes, ladle to ladle for
soldering, ladle onto catch cloth for a wiped joint on lead.

Cable jointers were always a bit scathing about plumbers, on the grounds
that it's very easy to melt away the lead sheath on a cable, so the skill
level for cable jointing was always thought to be much greater.

Most interesting - thank you
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

On Feb 19, 1:57*pm, Broadland Wanderer wrote:
On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:21:34 AM UTC, harry wrote:

I send weeks as an apprentice on the job and went on a course years

You weren't the comedian who thought he could wipe a plumb without a catch cloth were you?

Heh Heh!
We all had "moleskin" cloths. Dunno if they were made from actual
moles or not.

On Feb 19, 3:05*pm, Broadland Wanderer wrote:
On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 2:18:31 PM UTC, Tim Watts wrote:

Well, what I meant was you'd have to let it cool down before shoving it in

the van, and heat it up again at the next job - presumably?..

Cool a bit, but storage on the vans allow for buckets to be contained properly.

BTW - do they still use sold if lead served cables are being repaired? And

do they still ladel the solder on (2 ladels)?

Tinman's solder for copper joints, can't remember what is used for aluminium, plumber's metal for wiped lead joints. Yes, ladle to ladle for soldering, ladle onto catch cloth for a wiped joint on lead.

Cable jointers were always a bit scathing about plumbers, on the grounds that it's very easy to melt away the lead sheath on a cable, so the skill level for cable jointing was always thought to be much greater.

Do you remember that horrid red flux that they used with aluminium
cables? I can recall the smell of the fumes now.
Found out years later it was carcinogenic.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:52:29 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Feb 19, 1:57*pm, Broadland Wanderer wrote:
On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 9:21:34 AM UTC, harry wrote:

I send weeks as an apprentice on the job and went on a course years

You weren't the comedian who thought he could wipe a plumb without a catch cloth were you?

Heh Heh!
We all had "moleskin" cloths. Dunno if they were made from actual
moles or not.

Nope! Heavy cotton.

--
Frank Erskine

On Mon, 18 Feb 2013 20:20:32 +0000, Stephen H
wrote:

On 18/02/2013 20:06, sm_jamieson wrote:
Having seen the thread about street rewiring, I wondered how the joints are done from the main supply cable going down the street, to the individual houses.
I am thinking they would to it without cutting the main cable - like when you wire a ring circuit looping at each socket to avoid a potential break of the ring at the sockets.
Obviously there may be different methods depending on the cable type, but ...
Anyone know how it is done ?
Simon.


I once spent a weeks work experience with the underground jointing team
at the local electricity board.

One such job involved connecting new houses to an existing 3 phase cable
that was feeding soome houses both before and after.

first its locate cable using voltage detectors. turn off power and dig hole.

The cable can be thought of as a three core cable with an outer neutral
shell.

The cable is carefully cut to expose the neutral outer shell and three
inner phase conductors.

The cable was they spread apart so that there was air between all
conductors.

You then use a blow torch & solder to attach the branch cable (which
looks like armoured cable) the inner wire of the branch cable to one of
the now exposed three phases. The skin conductor is then soldered to
the neutral of the underground cable.

There is a kit which is basically contains two plastic shells,
plasticene and a epoxy resin & hardener.

You apply the two plastic shells around the thick cable so as gto
completely cover it. Make a small hole for the new branch cable thats
just been attached.

Putty/plasticene is then applied at the cable - shell gaps.

The epoxy resin and hardener is then mixed in a bucket and then poured
into the now assembled closed shell which has an opening at the top for
the expoy resin & hardener mix to be poured into.

The men then have a cup of tea or lunch.

Once the resin has hardened, the hol eis then back filled and the gang
move onto the next house.

cables that have fractured/shorted/open circuited are repaired in a
similar way. cut out a couple of metres of cable on both sides of the
fault, and use a new length of cable plus two jointing kits to connect
up the two ends of the old cable.


Stephen.

That's what happened when my supply head was moved, and a length of
modern cable was spliced to the old paper & lead stuff underground.
All except one tiny detail, the bit about turning off the power.

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:21:37 PM UTC, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:52:29 -0800 (PST), harry


We all had "moleskin" cloths. Dunno if they were made from actual

moles or not.



Nope! Heavy cotton.

Never seen a cable jointer using anything other than moleskin.

On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 3:52:29 PM UTC, harry wrote:
On Feb 19, 1:57*pm, Broadland Wanderer wrote:


You weren't the comedian who thought he could wipe a plumb without a catch cloth were you?



Heh Heh!

We all had "moleskin" cloths. Dunno if they were made from actual

moles or not.

Was true. It happened a few weeks before I had my spell in the jointing school. And compound in the boot. Long before H&S reared its head.....

In article ,
Broadland Wanderer wrote:
On Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:21:37 PM UTC, Frank Erskine wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 07:52:29 -0800 (PST), harry


We all had "moleskin" cloths. Dunno if they were made from actual

moles or not.



Nope! Heavy cotton.

Never seen a cable jointer using anything other than moleskin.

"Moleskin" is heavy cotton.

--
From KT24

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18