The is an initial attraction to the idea that an air source heat pump driven
by PV electricity could be a neater solution for heating a heat store than
solar water heating panels.

Which
http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creati...mps-explained/
seem to prevaricate a lot, but afen't to keen when retrofitting.

A capitalist money grabbing pig who is also a mate has a good sized PV array
which is generating well, and he is being offered an air source heat pump to
go with it.
Presumably the idea is to use the PV leccy to heat water, and using a heat
pump gets more heat per unit of electricity than feeding it directly into an
immersion heater.

How much more efficient it is, of course, is the £k question.

Not much good at the moment with no sun and the temperature below 5C.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

David WE Roberts wrote:
The is an initial attraction to the idea that an air source heat pump
driven by PV electricity could be a neater solution for heating a heat
store than solar water heating panels.

Which
http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creati...mps-explained/

seem to prevaricate a lot, but afen't to keen when retrofitting.

A capitalist money grabbing pig who is also a mate has a good sized PV
array which is generating well, and he is being offered an air source
heat pump to go with it.
Presumably the idea is to use the PV leccy to heat water, and using a
heat pump gets more heat per unit of electricity than feeding it
directly into an immersion heater.

How much more efficient it is, of course, is the £k question.

Not much good at the moment with no sun and the temperature below 5C.

Cheers

Dave R
Generally you don't want space heating at the same time as solar PV is
producing anything useful. You could always run heat pump cooling from
Solar PV. I assume some ASHPs are reversible?

Without investing in a HUGE thermal store that could run UFH in spring
and autumn evenings then it is not practical to store useful amounts of
energy other than in DHW.
Usually a PV system can heat enough DHW using a PV dump controller
during a summers day without the multiplying effect or a heat pump. If
not then solar thermal panels can be added reasonably cheaply.

ASHPs could provide space heating in autumn/winter/ spring but most of
the time would need grid power and at times when there would be bugger
all solar PV output.

On 11/02/13 15:42, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
"David WE Roberts" wrote:

The is an initial attraction to the idea that an air source heat pump
driven by PV electricity could be a neater solution for heating a heat
store than solar water heating panels.

Which
http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creati...des/air-source

-heat-pumps-explained/
seem to prevaricate a lot, but afen't to keen when retrofitting.

A capitalist money grabbing pig who is also a mate has a good sized PV
array which is generating well, and he is being offered an air source
heat pump to go with it.
Presumably the idea is to use the PV leccy to heat water, and using a
heat pump gets more heat per unit of electricity than feeding it
directly into an immersion heater.

Could do what the Aussies are supposedly planning: use the daytime PV to
melt salt at 500-600C, use the heat stored there for nighttime leccy
generation. Of course they are not doing that on a house by house basis,
but possibly rather more efficiently in stations that generate about
300MW each (IIRC). That goes towards removing the major stumbling block
for renewables: intermittency.

well of course it doesn't. Since the turnround efficiency of a molte
salt heat store is ******** really

--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On Feb 11, 3:12*pm, "David WE Roberts" wrote:
The is an initial attraction to the idea that an air source heat pump driven
by PV electricity could be a neater solution for heating a heat store than
solar water heating panels.

Whichhttp://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/a...
seem to prevaricate a lot, but afen't to keen when retrofitting.

A capitalist money grabbing pig who is also a mate has a good sized PV array
which is generating well, and he is being offered an air source heat pump to
go with it.
Presumably the idea is to use the PV leccy to heat water, and using a heat
pump gets more heat per unit of electricity than feeding it directly into an
immersion heater.

How much more efficient it is, of course, is the £k question.

Not much good at the moment with no sun and the temperature below 5C.

Cheers

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

There will not be enough PV electricity available at the time you need
it in our climate.
There are a lot of big ******** ideas fro energy saving.

My own house just has massive insulation and insulated window and door
shutters. Plus the PV electric on the roof.
I have a small wood burning stove which I run for a couple of hours on
venings on cold sunless days.
I have net zero power consumption.


I have a near neighbour with lots of high tech ****. Cost a fortune to
buy and a fortune to run.
PV panels (bigger than mine)
Ground source heat pump.
Plus FKW else.

There is a lot of high tech **** out there you don't need.
Keep It Stupid Simple.

On Feb 11, 3:42*pm, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
*"David WE Roberts" wrote:

The is an initial attraction to the idea that an air source heat pump driven
by PV electricity could be a neater solution for heating a heat store than
solar water heating panels.

Which
http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creati...-home/guides/a...
-heat-pumps-explained/
seem to prevaricate a lot, but afen't to keen when retrofitting.

A capitalist money grabbing pig who is also a mate has a good sized PV array
which is generating well, and he is being offered an air source heat pump to
go with it.
Presumably the idea is to use the PV leccy to heat water, and using a heat
pump gets more heat per unit of electricity than feeding it directly into an
immersion heater.

Could do what the Aussies are supposedly planning: use the daytime PV to
melt salt at 500-600C, use the heat stored there for nighttime leccy

There are a few about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_p...torage_methods

How about some facts to back up your assertion?

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:02:14 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

well of course it doesn't. Since the turnround efficiency of a molte
salt heat store is ******** really
--
================================================== =======
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On 11/02/2013 15:42, Tim Streater wrote:
Could do what the Aussies are supposedly planning: use the daytime PV to
melt salt at 500-600C, use the heat stored there for nighttime leccy
generation. Of course they are not doing that on a house by house basis,
but possibly rather more efficiently in stations that generate about
300MW each (IIRC). That goes towards removing the major stumbling block
for renewables: intermittency.

Solar power makes more sense out there anyway. If your major use is
aircon on a hot, sunny day...

Andy

On 11/02/2013 23:09, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Andy Champ wrote:

On 11/02/2013 15:42, Tim Streater wrote:
Could do what the Aussies are supposedly planning: use the daytime
PV to
melt salt at 500-600C, use the heat stored there for nighttime leccy
generation. Of course they are not doing that on a house by house
basis,
but possibly rather more efficiently in stations that generate about
300MW each (IIRC). That goes towards removing the major stumbling block
for renewables: intermittency.

Solar power makes more sense out there anyway. If your major use is
aircon on a hot, sunny day...

They have the land, and the reliable sun. If they can't make it work, no
one can. It's certainly not worth doing in Europe, for all harry's b/s.


I'll elaborate.

Over here our major domestic power use is for heating. This tends to be
required at night, and in cloudy weather.

Over there the major requirement is for air conditioning. This tends to
be on sunny days.

It's just as intermittent over there, but it's available exactly when
you need it most, instead of exactly when you don't.

Andy

On 12/02/13 10:48, Andy Champ wrote:
On 11/02/2013 23:09, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Andy Champ wrote:

On 11/02/2013 15:42, Tim Streater wrote:
Could do what the Aussies are supposedly planning: use the daytime
PV to
melt salt at 500-600C, use the heat stored there for nighttime leccy
generation. Of course they are not doing that on a house by house
basis,
but possibly rather more efficiently in stations that generate about
300MW each (IIRC). That goes towards removing the major stumbling
block
for renewables: intermittency.

Solar power makes more sense out there anyway. If your major use is
aircon on a hot, sunny day...

They have the land, and the reliable sun. If they can't make it work, no
one can. It's certainly not worth doing in Europe, for all harry's b/s.


I'll elaborate.

Over here our major domestic power use is for heating. This tends to be
required at night, and in cloudy weather.


actually that not true of electricity. Its main use is in lighting,
domestically, which comes on when the sun goes down.
Over there the major requirement is for air conditioning. This tends to
be on sunny days.

It's just as intermittent over there, but it's available exactly when
you need it most, instead of exactly when you don't.

Andy


--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc-ra-cy) €“ a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.

On 12/02/2013 12:41, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/02/13 10:48, Andy Champ wrote:
....
Over here our major domestic power use is for heating. This tends to be
required at night, and in cloudy weather.


actually that not true of electricity. Its main use is in lighting,

The domestic use of electricity used for lighting has been declining
over the past 10 years and it is no longer the main use. The drop has
been quite dramatic over the past few years with a 9% drop between 2010
and 2011 alone.

The 2011 mix of domestic use was consumer electronics (not including
home computing) - 1839 thousand tonnes of oil equivalent (ttoe), then
wet domestic appliances - 1271 ttoe, then cold appliances 1192 ttoe.
Lighting came in at about 1100 ttoe, slightly behind cooking. Home
computing was just short of 600 ttoe.

Colin Bignell